Greg Biffle Coasts to Controversial Kansas Win
Sunday September 30, 2007
Greg Biffle was awarded the win today after the 2007 LifeLock 400 at Kansas Speedway without being the first car to cross the finish line. Biffle did not seem to be able to maintain pace speed as the cars came to the checkered flag and both Clint Bowyer and Jimmie Johnson passed him before the cars crossed the line. However, NASCAR said that Biffle is the race winner and Biffle's team pushed his car to Victory Lane where he celebrated the win.
Since Biffle was not able to keep up he should have lost his place in line and been scored where he actually finished. NASCAR rules state that the running order is locked when the yellow comes out. However, drivers must maintain pace speed in order to hold their position. Biffle seemed to be unable to keep up and should have been placed back in the running order. I believe that NASCAR blew the call on this one.
Comments
All I can say is that the whole race was a great big mess. BLAME IT ON THE RAIN, I GUESS!
I think you are right Steve.Nascar should have changed it when they saw he ran out of gas. I watched Windtunnel and he read the book and it didn’t say it has to be able to keep up. But it is a very grey area of the rules. I do agree that Nascar needs to fix that rule with a clear statement of it.
As everyone has heard time and time again – The field is frozen the second the caution flag/lights are displayed. The positioning freeze is based upon each car’s physical location when passing by the last automatic scoring monitor.
Obviously, when the caution was thrown, ‘The Bif’ was shown to be in first place. It doesn’t matter if he couldn’t keep up speed before reaching the next scoring monitor; no one may advance their position on the track once the caution has been thrown – so why is this even an issue?
As a fellow Oklahoman I agree with you Tracy, there shouldn’t be an issue.
Remember Robbie Gordon! How many places did he lose when he was spun out during the roadrace in Canada? NASCAR should change it name to “Janus” they are so “two faced.”
A race shortened by an early rain storm!
A green–white–checkered situation disallowed!
A frozen field “THAWING OUT”!
Robby Gordon couldnt advance in Canada — Clint didnt advance in the US.
No opinions expressed by me, only the facts
OK-LET’S GET SOME COFFEE AND WAKE UP!
1 YES, FIELD IS FROZEN ONCE THE YELLOW FLIES ,BUT A CAR MUST AND I MEAN MUST AT LEAST MAINTAIN PACE-CAR SPEED AND CROSS THE FINISH LINE!!!!
2 THING BIFFLE DID NOT DO…WINNER THE 07!!!!!!!!!!
Field was frozen, hoever, they had to complete all of the laps to finish the race. If a driver pits, he doesn’t maintain the “frozen field” position. Biffle obviously couldn’t complete the race at pace car speed, therefore, should be treated the same way it would have if he had gone into the pits. It looks to me like he finished around 6th place….
Why was the race even restarted? For the fans, not hardly, 75% had left. Then take the race leader and put him mid-pack with a bunch of guys in front that want a caution as quick as they can cause one.
And if the Biff is the winner, and I agree he was, why wasn’t Johnson, Boyer, and others penalized for passing under caution.
Sammer
I have to agree that the 07 was the winner. The logic being presented here does not make any sense. Three years ago at Charlott, Elliott Sadler was in the top 5 and ran out of gas during a caution. He had to be pushed around the track by one of the wreckers. Under the logic that is being presented here, that makes Biffle the winner, Elliott should have been able to gas up and return to the spot where he was when the caution was thrown not a lap down. It is a shame to see all of the good things NASCAR did at the race be tarnished by this bad decision. I was at the race, and the drivers could not see. Ending the race under the yellow was the correct thing to do. Making Biff the winner is not.
A mess is right. I couldn’t figure out why in heck Biffle was slowing and pulling into the grass as 48 and 07 passed him, even if it was a caution. I was like, WTH, he’s supposed to cross for the checkered flag at least …
Even if the field was frozen under caution, seems like he should have to cross the finish line to be the winner.
Thanks Paul, for giving an “I was there” POV. They said it was darker in person than what the TV projected.
Wish they’d have just run the last half of the FULL 267 laps today. I saw lots of empty seats after they red-flagged 2nd time. Heck, some guys showered and others napped b/c they thought they were done.
Well, Well NASCAR doesn’t play by it’s own rules. The yellow was thrown field was frozen however the cars must maintain pace speed, Biffle car was not maintaining speed and got past to the line, A grey area UHM. When teams messed with cars in the “GREY AREA” nascar fines them, When nascar dibbles in the “GREY AREA” it’s ok.
NASCAR’s rules always depend upon who you are. Johnny Benson lost a truck race under the same rule. The race shouldn’t have been restarted. It was already getting dark, the track wasn’t completely dry and it was still raining a bit. If GORDON or JOHNSON were leading at the red it would have been called off. Can you say Las Vegas…?
Seems to me, I need to find another sport where the rules are consistent.
I’m sorry MIKEJ, I think your are wrong with your theory, and even you proved it think about what you had written. If that were the case then Johnson would have won yesterday because he went by biffle. Biffle is a one-season wonder he is an nobody, sorry biffle fans but what has he done in the last few years. He is just like his other driver from Washington State Kasey, although Kasey is well liked with the fans, what has he done lately with a few exceptions of being lucky?
Biffle lost. Another NASCASH make it up as you go along decision. Want to bet if someone else had been in second, the decision would have been different?
There ya go ! NASCAR breaks it’s own rules ! Don’t you know, NASCAR likes playing GOD ! Get real NASCAR, read your own rules and keep them !!!!
Just another fine example,that the Nascar rule book is written in Pencil!!…
I feel sorry for Clint Bowyer in all of this. No way should Greg got that win without crossing the finish line. And Clint had a chance to bring in a win for his home crowd. GO JIMMMIE!!!!
Biffle is not going to live this down the way the comments fly even though he’s not at fault in this instance. The race was the Perfect NASCAR Storm, no pun to the weather in Kansas, Dorothy, or a hit to George Clooney fans. When the second red flag was issued the race should have ended. Yes, there would have been controversy, but that stoppage reflected rules everyone can agree too. However, hoping the sponsers, I mean fans, were still tuned in. NASCAR, knowing there was no way to complete the race prior to night fall, nor how many laps might be completed in their estimated time frame. Rubs the magic France Lamp and let’s the genie of greed once more cast a shadow on the sport. By and by, does ABC make more money by switching the race, no matter how long it would take, to ESPN 2 than from the original shows and sponsors?
same old story. jack needed a win .FORD needed a win.
Well I see almost everyone agreed with me. I have to wonder if Nascar ever thinks they won’t deal with Grey area on the owners cars but when this came up in Grey area, it is interesting to know how Nascar changed it.Guess they don’t read they rules either.
They couldnt do a green white checker finish ????? B/S is what that is. 2 more laps woulda took all but a minute.
Leanna when will you ever learn Grey is not a color in the NASCAR logo. Their rule book is in invisable ink and materalizes to the specific version of the day.
I think that nascar just makes the rules up as they go just like the rain delay if someone else had been leading the race like jeff or jimmie or someone they can control not like a tony or a dale they would have call the race as soon as it started raining and to give it to the 16 car that couldn’t even keep up its not right i could say so more thing but i am going to shut up
nascar is getting to be a joke and full of it
Ran8, as I told mikej your theory was proven wrong. Otherwise they would have gave it to johnson when biffle ran out of gas.
I was pulling for the underdog, Biffle, to win, but he didn’t in my judgment. If it was not necessary for him to continue those last laps under the caution, then the race was really over 4 laps earlier when the caution came out—but, of course, it wasn’t over yet, and Biffle couldn’t complete the caution laps at pace car speed, so others HAD to break the rules and pass him…and once they realized his car was disabled, they did pass and should be given race credit.
According to NASCAR rules it is to maintain reasonable speed which is very generic. However, the real issue is that NASCAR was unprepared to complete it’s own event by not having lights at Kansas Speedway. and we fans who give top dollar for tickets, refreshments, and collectables were cheated by several race shorting decisions and to top it off a green, white, checker finish.Several columnists have given NASCAR kudos for getting it right.They did not. It is was it is and ALL WRONG is was it is.
paul not all tracks have lights. That is one reason they run during the day. For you paying top dollar for those tickets, should stay home and watch it for free, why pay when you can get it for free? Oh yea the excitement, ha.
“Washington state” I was not talking about the finish, I was talking about the restart after the red flag. If Jimmie or Jeffie wouldn’t have been so far back in the standings at the rain delay they wouldn’t have restarted. As far as NASCAR is concerned there are only two teams worth their trouble and Biffle is on one and Jimmie and Jeffie are on the other. Why do you think that Junior picked who he did for next year?
I thought that all laps are counted including the yellow. Don’t they figure the finishing position of the cars in a wreck by how many scoring loops they pass? I also thought that I saw the flagman displaying a yellow and a white flag on the previous lap which should mean you have to go ALL the way around again to have completed the race. The yellow just means to slow down and stay in position IF YOU CAN. I have seen the outcome of a wreck where a car gets started again and passes a totally disabled car before the pace comes back around and he gets the higher placing. Biffle DID NOT WIN and NASCAR had until this afternoon to correct their mistake because as I understand the race isn’t official until they do a complete review the next day or so.
We can only hope they change it when no one agrees with it. MikeJ is right both flags were out and Biffle need to keep up or he loses. Why should have been 07 on that win. I am a big HMS fan. So lets hope they set this race right. They were 100% wrong on it this time.
I went to Nascar.com and to News. There is a comment about the race and you can send him a e-mail with your thoughts. I just thought I would share with you on this.
mikej I agree with you about the flags 100% however on your conspiracy theory about jimmie and jeff you are on your own there.
My man Tony would of won the race if the clouds didn’t clear. I was hoping for a long storm and a called race. That’s where it should of ended! When the race restarted the track still wasn’t totally dried and by then who really cared what the out come was. In my heart Tony won! He is the BEST!
ok. i said i needed just one more reason to quit watching nascar. thanks nascar you gave it to me. you guys finally ruined the sport to a point where i can’t watch any longer. drivers, stand up and be counted. thanks for the good memories. this is a sad day in my home.
Lauren, yes Tony won the race at the time of the second legal red flag. Yes, Mike J all laps count on the yellow, but the fine print, in this past weeks rule book, clearly states on any yellow but the final yellow of any race should the France family want to have Ford at their future races. When the team trend is changing toward Toyota. Also, Leanna and Mike J are both right about the white/yellow flag situation, but again that is in a normal race. This race was anything but normal. Tune in next week when we find Rusty sitting in the announcer’s booth being declared the winner by NASCAR. Who says NASCAR can not control the Championship for all those NEXTEL big bucks.
These are really funny today. Sometimes this site is funnier than the Sunday comics. We have another fan that they say no more nascar. We have a person or two talking about the conspiracy factors with fords and nascar and Jimmie, and Jeff and nascar. Others say because their driver was in front they should have called the race then. Didn’t I read on here a month or two the same people was complaining that nascar did called a race for the rain?
If they give Biffle the win it’s a joke. They need to get someone to read the rule book. And keep the rulings the same throughout the year. And review all of the rulings by a panel of judges so all of them can give thier own thoughts on the issue. The 07 wins 48 sencond and the Biffer third as I saw on TV ( My thoughts only )
This race basically sealed the chase for Johnson or Gordon if they just maintain good finishes. Nascar just about took all the excitement out of the chase with this call–the race should have ended and not restarted. As for the call at the end for Biffle–its par for the course for Nascar–changing the rules as they go. I’ve been a fan since Richard,Cale,Dale,Sr. and Bobby, and this is the absoulute worse season I’ve ever seen. DOES ANYONE ELSE AGREE?
Does anyboby on here think that Tony got shafted? First of all, They shouldn’t have restarted the race if they knew they couldn’t finish it. That’s what they said at Pocono for Jeff. Secondly, When they did restart the race, You have the the top 6 or 7 lead cars in the middle of the pack!! Nascar, you need to get your act together!!!
By the way, I know Boyer is not far back from Jimmie and Jeff, but I feel he just isn’t consistent enough to win it. Bad luck seems always to find him.
Smoke 62, of course Tony got shafted, but the rain stopped and technically the race can resume by the actual rule book. I am also a Gordon fan, but would not like to see Jeff, Jimmie, Smoke or anybody win by the tricks of NASCAR officals. I happened to be 61 years old and remember a great deal of great NASCAR racing over the years. I am sick of the current situation. Yes, Laughing, I complained a month or two ago. I will continue to vent, because of the course NASCAR has been taking this season.
Smoke62,yes Tony got shafted with the restart of the race, but the rain stopped and the track dried enough to restart. Other than the two red flags that was the only thing NASCAR did by the actual rules. Maybe they should have taken the time left to run the race into consideration, but that is not a factor in the current rule book. Jr fan from bama, I am a Jeff fan, but would hate to see Jeff, Jimmie, Smoke or anybody win due to NASCAR’s current tricks this season. Laughing, I am also 61 years old and remember many outstanding races and did vent about NASCAR not calling a race after the rain started a month or so back. So what? Henchman is right on track. There is a rule book to be followed and NASCAR chooses to either ignore or amend it as the officials see fit race by race. That is no way to keep a fan base, but a good way to keep sponsers, i.e. Ford, happy.
Thanks Lloyd, and by the way, I was not trying to disrespect Gordon in any way. He is a champion and is well capable of winning any race at any time, but I don’t think he needs Nascar’s help doing it. My reaction is not based on what Gordon has done, it’s based on how Nascar handles things.
Thank you Smoke62! I am still so new to this sport, I wished I could of seen races in the past when it was still respectable. Lloyd you sound like you have a lot of memories, wish I could hear them all. Maybe for brand new fans hopefully things get back to what they were so we can have the memories too.
Lloyd, 61 years old you said that (along with other things) twice in 12 minutes having a senior moment? “HA” I agree what you are saying about nascar. What I was referring to about a month ago when nascar called the race because of rain people was complaining about it, now the same people complaining about nascar did not stop the race, Just no pleasing some people thats all. This site is just a bunch of old hens. I read on here while back I think it’s true why nascar is what it is today. It’s the newbees to the sport that nascar trying to please. The newbees start to watch and think nascar should be tailored to them. Just like when bunches of people move from one place California for an example, to Northern California (Washington state) for another example instead of them blend in to the new area they insist the old ways be blend in to them.
Let me clarify something, I myself don’t have anything against the newbees to nascar, shoot we all was at one time or another. What is wrong is when the newbees think they have to be catered too. I believed this was the case with nascar.
I THINK DALE JR. JOINING JEFF AND JIMMIE BECAUSE THEIR MOTORS DONT BLOW UP EVERY OTHER WEEK
Laughing, senior momment on a senior computer that didn’t show my first response when I went back in, but then I like a good argument with good people. I just hope NASCAR gets their gears straight for next season as this one is blowen no matter who should win it will be over controversy I’m afraid. To change the subject I agree with Earnhardt1. I know Dale, Jr has joined Jeff and Jimmie, because they don’t drive engines by Teresa.(Complaine again||). Also, remember when Kyle left a race with his car in the garage and Dale, Jr. got behind the wheel and finished for Henricks? Showing an example why he is not with the team next season. He knew where he was heading even while speaking to the DEI Goddess Teresa. It is ashame how DEI has fallen this season.
I have to agree that they shouldn’t have given Biffle the win. NASCAR just seem to make rules up as they went that day. After the second red flag they opened the pits right away(not normal), was it because Tony Stewart was out of fuel? So, who’s side are they on? They couldn’t make their minds that day could they.
I agree that Biffle shouldn’t have been named the winner, you shouldn’t be ale to win a race ubnder a yellow flag. Nascar should have let the racers do at least another 3 lap after the caution was over.
I think we have discussed this race to much already. Let us hope Talladega has a better, not bitter, out come.
Talladega Pack a lunch, and a sleeping bag. The bricks on wheels are racing then.
all i say is the six degrees of robby gordon,rem.canada?,gregs cc is greg erwin/gordons former cc….shows that the show is just that,a show!if that had been rg they would have green white checkerd him,the love that cat,the one with the hat!congrats to greg erwin!finish that addition!
I wonder if the race would have been restarted if Jeff or Jimmie would have been leading when the rain started? Remember the first Pocono race? Nascar called it an official race quickly in order to preserve a win for their poster boy.(Gordon) The reason Bowyer wasn’t declared the winner in Sunday’s race was to preserve the point lead for the Hendrick Team. Way to go Nascar!
Tony Stewart really got shafted in this one! He should be the point leader right now! Hasn’t Nascar personnel said in the past that they will never restart a race when it is impossible to complete it? It continues to appear as if Nascar just makes up different rules for each and every race.
GEEEZZZ conspiracies, What if, I wonder, what who cares it’s done and over with. People have two choices with nascrap!! everbody repeating what the other person had said.
Biffle won the race fair and square and it shouldnt be an issue with anyone so get over it…. life goes on.
although biffle had nothing todo with it, but it was anything but fair.
Why can’t nascar try rain tires? Seems to work in Formula racing. So what if speeds would be slower, that would seem to make everything more equal.
NASCAR Blows period!
The reason why F-1 cars ran at Japan in the heavy rain just three second slower than they drove in qualifying on the dryer track the day before, was that F-1 cars are so aero dynamic that if they drove 75 miles per hour, they would have enought downforce to drive on a wall! That is right, F-1 cars took 5 g’s turning into corner 1 at Mt Fuji. Most fighter pilots flight dogfights at that many G’s. Space Shuttle Crews take 3 G’s maximum to liftoff from Cape Kennedy. F-1 car also are designed to take lateral G load of up to 5 g’s as well as their tires! Bridgestone Tires are designed to take those “g” loads on flat turns. They are also designed to take high lateral “g’ loads. The Goodyears on NASCAR cars would be destroyed after a few laps if they had to take that much punishment!
NASCAR Nextel Cup and other cars have a thinner tire and have less downforce that F-1 cars. They also have a higher center of gravity. But most sports cars and F-1 cars are lower to the ground. In Japan last week, the cars were acutally floating on water during the race because the clearance of an F-1 car is so low to the ground.
Now look at other forms of racing on road courses. LMP1 cars like the Audi R-10’s are flat high down force low to the ground cars too. That is why they car run in the rain at Le Mans!
It is not the rain tire that stops NASCAR from running in the rain. Even eith full wet tires, those carsa could only do about 40 miles and hour safely as they are designed now in the rain.
That is what they called on Robbie Gordon weeks ago after spinning out. Why is this time different.
The race at Kansas was a smaller version of Talladega, 11 cautions with half the field involved in crashes.
Biffle the winner? I think not.
First, Nascar should have made contact with Biffle by radio and made him follow the pace car around the track after the checker flag. With him slowing up on the apron and getting passed at 55mph, it showed he ran out of gas. Nascar should have made him get back in his car and drive to Victory Lane. Maybe do a couple of burnouts along the way. Nascar needs to be more consistent with their rules and whoever crosses the finish line first, wins. I guess whoever was driving the pace car was the winner, not Biffle.
if jeff or jimmie had been first when it started that down pour, you bet your sweet rear end that nascar would have called the race. looks like to me & my family, that nascar going to make sure that either jimmie or jeff win the chase again this year. GO TONY!!!!!
everyone has the racer they want to win so you will never be able to please everyone dah the drivers make their on history justcheck the record books i think jeff can handle his own and has don’t blame him for what nascar has messed up he’s in his car
trying to win the chase not making the rules
What about the apron? What about keeping up with the pace car?
if the same thing happened to any other driver they would defend the win!all the cry baby’s who have been winning races all through out the season need to stop complaining about one race and focus on the big picture.more races to win. biffle asked nascar if he could start his car to shut people up and nascar said no.just food for thought! P.S. GO BIFFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!