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"I don't understand your leaving NASCAR as a fan because they'll be running non-American cars. (I went to my first NASCAR race at Charlotte in 1966, so I'm a long-time fan myself.) Like Formula-1 and other series-- heck, like other sports-- expanding the pool of competitors will make for better racing." TELLIOTT4055 is in favor of Toyota's entering NASCAR. What do you think? There's a good discussion going on in the forum. Join in!


May 31, 2006 at 7:27 pm
(1) RWR says:

Toyota is foreign ? The big three have plants in mexico & canada !!!LOL

June 7, 2006 at 12:40 pm
(2) Jon Lancaster says:

The comments listed here are indicative of the ignorance that permeates society. Or, for the lay person, comments 1,3, and 4 are made by ignorant people who no next to nothing about the U.S. economy. Toyota does more to keep the U.S. on top lately than GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler ever COULD. They keep taking jobs away from this country, and Toyota keeps building plants. I respect your service, SGT JONES, but times have changed, and the only things that separate enemies from allies is time. Look at Iraq, who we funded to defeat Iran 20 years ago. Now we hate them. How ironic.
The Camry is an American car, and since Toyota employs over 386,000 Americans, sound like they should be in NASCAR.

Jon Lancaster

April 19, 2011 at 8:49 pm
(3) mikehanson says:

i have stopped watching nascar and i will not buy from toyoya sponsers

June 22, 2006 at 6:41 pm
(4) Gary Chan says:

GM manufactures the Chevy Aveo, Epica and Optra in South Korea.

Lol. America’s car giant, like Japan, is generating economy in a foreign nation. So, what’s with all the hating by some of you.

July 10, 2006 at 1:29 pm
(5) Jim McGwin says:

Being an avid racing fan, particularly Stock Cars, since I was a kid in the early sixties I get the differences between Stock, Indy an F1.
They have taken the “Stock” out of Stock car racing. Indy is no longer a “super Bowl” level event. Both have gone to Barbie Doll Drivers and spec racers.
Australia still has great “Real” stock car racing!

Indy and F1 were the formats for global competition technology and talent

NASCAR found a huge following in “Loyal” Ford vs Chevy vs other American brand racing.

You would buy the products associated with the brand you were most loyal to.

We’ll that works both ways.

I’m planning on avoiding products that show-up on Toyota Hoods (UPS. NAPA are you listening?)

Not just because of the racing but try to sell an American car in Japan, for that last 40 years, You couldn’t and it had nothing to do with quality or fuel economy, but trade restictions.

- Try to sell an American car in Japan

July 27, 2006 at 11:01 am
(6) Leroy Mathew says:

To all the ethnic slurs Bah! this is a sport like any other sport and if we worry about having foreign participants just try to imagine where we would be if they pulled out their foreign investments out of the US. If they meet NASCAR’s guidlines then let them boogey with the best.

July 31, 2006 at 9:34 pm
(7) Craig Cote says:

I work hard for my American money and Toyota has consistantly given me more of it back (far mor than GM or Ford or German owned Chrysler) when it’s come time to sell it. The MonteCarlo is made in Canada, the Fusion in Mexico, and the Camry in the US out of more American parts than the Mustang. If WW2 veterans from Pearl Harbor could hug the Japanese veterans and alls’ well-WELCOME Toyota to the Daytona 500!

August 21, 2006 at 12:28 pm
(8) Bryan Steffee says:

I personally do not care if the Toyota’s are made in my basement….it is still a Toyota. And I would love to see the reaction of baseball fans if the champion Japanese team were permitted to compete in the WORLD series….don’t think that would go over too well. And why, because the World Series is AMERICAN. For me it has nothing to do with where the vehicles are made, or how many Americans they employ, or how reliable they are (I gave my Chevy Beretta away with over 500,000 miles by the way). It comes down to this…….Toyota is not an American company.

I will be attending my last race ever this weekend in Bristol. And in my humble opinion, this is just the last nail in the coffin. I could stomach all the other garbage the last 15 years, (ie. Lucky Dog, and the Chase) but it is here I throw in the towel.

Hope someone enjoy’s my seats!

August 30, 2006 at 11:50 am
(9) Rich Miller says:

Toyotais the worst mistake nascar could make LETS KEEP IT AMERICAN

September 13, 2006 at 11:54 am
(10) Steve Folner says:

Last year for NASCAR as we know it. I just wish folks would understand that money spent on Toyota’s manufactured in the U.S. still goes back to the motherland of Japan. They beat us and never fired a shot. Good bye NASCAR !

September 24, 2006 at 11:11 pm
(11) Robert says:

Japan subsidies all their car companies so they can undercut our prices. Pay employees less that American car companies do. Tariffs our cars so we can’t sell them in Japan. Won’t let us build cars in Japan so we compete fairly. Have created over 200,000 job, buy have taken away over 3,000,000.00 Go for it, when you lose your job to unfair trade laws you can eat your Datsun

September 27, 2006 at 12:04 am
(12) Mike says:

Disgusting. Foreign brands are foreign brands. Nascar is an American tradition. This is the first I’ve heard of this abomination, and unfortunately, it does ruin Nascar for me. Reliable (SHOW me the 240K mile toyota)? Bah! Built in America (in foreign-owned plants)? Bah!

Show me one 1983 toyota on the road and I’ll show you 217 1983 GM cars. Call me a redneck from the little town of Chicago, but I hate foreign crap cars. Bye bye former-glory, former-winged warrior-battleground, former-American Nascar.

October 8, 2006 at 2:31 pm
(13) Gerry Moore says:

Toyota has dominated every racing event ever entered. The manufacturer is already one of the “Big Three”. People do not realize that TOYOTA IS an American manufacturer. I can’t wait to see the tides turn. It will make it more competitive than ever before. TRD to most people’s belief does not stand for “TURD”. It really is “TOYOTA RACING DEVELOPMENT”!!!

It’s about time.

All you people that are not awake to the REAL WORLD but live in the Blue Collar Comedy tour, look where your Ford’s, Chevy’s, Dodge’s and Pontiac’s are built. If you think they are built here in your back yard or even in the U.S.A. wake up and smell the roses or in your case the “moonshine”… This is in no way a shot at the hard working “logical level thinking” American. This is to you who think that it is not good for the sport…

PS: Ask any hard working American Auto Technician who works at a domestic dealership or Mfg. plant what they drive. Chances are 60% plus drive a TOYOTA because they know it will start and they will get to work safely…

October 11, 2006 at 6:27 am
(14) Will says:

My gosh!!! What is wrong with all of you ‘sick, ignorant, and miserable’ bigots? Who do you think you are to say that it is evil, unAmerican, and terrible for Toyota to engage in the NASCAR arena. This is a free country!! In fact, you should really be careful–this subject has pretty much exposed that you are really visiting earth and is not a human being. The sad part is, it’s so many of you out there. You are the very ones that promote, perpetuate, and embrace many of the problems we have in today’s society. This being said, your first option is to stop supporting NASCAR. Next, you should refrain from expressing your ignorant, pathetic views about one of “our” country’s greatest blessings. I take offense to you criticizing what humans do and I take no pride in responding to idiots. But I am compelled to try to offer some help in this situation. No matter how long you’ve been visting here on earth, I think that you’ve pretty much worn out your welcome. You really need to go away–to the planet from which you came. All of us responsible human Americans won’t miss you at all because we don’t need your kind here on earth. Furthermore, you don’t even deserve to be placed in the earth–just leave it!!! But before you depart, I beg that you don’t leave any of your crap behind–nothing at all. Oh–you had better check out the vehicle information plate on your space ship; it may have been made by Totota.

October 15, 2006 at 5:26 am
(15) Richard Cayer says:

As an educated adult, I understand both arguments. Yes, I know, it’s been 60+ years. For me, one simple phrase would cause me to welcome Toyota in NASCAR. Germany did it. BMW, Volkswagon, AUDI, and Porsche all gave billions to survivors of their factories, as well as an apology. Small price to pay for 6 million lives, but far better than Japan did. In fact, their attitude is pretty much “we don’t owe the world anything”! Yes, I know about the economics, etc, but it’s simply principle. My reply is not littered with hate. I hate no one. I just want accountability. We, as a nation are always apologizing for something. Other nations are always making sure that we take responsibility for our actions. It’s funny what world forgets in 60 years, which was really not that long ago.

October 15, 2006 at 7:26 pm
(16) Pete Peale says:

Well, there is no Big three anymore.
The Dodges running in Nascar are supported by Dodge of Damlier Chrysler which is a German co.

The other BIG TWO are struggling.

Toyota employees over 142,000 people in the US.

I think that GM has way too many models and some that compete with each other across the lines.

I would like to see GM and FORD start copying the popular Japanese and Korean model.
Would love to have a G-35 model with a Chevrolet Z-28 motor or Fors Mustang GT/Cobra motor.

October 24, 2006 at 11:23 am
(17) Bullet says:

Yes, please leave NASCAR you ignorant rednecks. This sport will be better without you and your small minds.

I am an educated redneck and hope Toyota brings a better crowd of people into the NASCAR arena.

October 9, 2010 at 2:54 pm
(18) Michael says:

Wow, the level of ignorance on this page is astounding!! It’s not American, it’s not American, Boo, hoo, hoo,!! I hope you all realize that Toyota was giving Americans jobs while the Big four were taking them away. The entry of Toyota onto the NASCAR scene has made for more exciting competition. And hopefully Nissan as well as others will follow suit.

October 29, 2006 at 1:02 am
(19) Elreyjones says:

The bigots on this site are the ones using the racist term “redneck”. If that racist and ethnically bigoted term can be used then so can every other one. And homeboys there are one for every tribe. What’s fair is fair.

November 17, 2006 at 1:53 pm
(20) Gary Ferguson says:

I think that NASCAR should be only American. American cars,…American Racers, American sponsers. This is getting out of hand. This is the last american sport that have americans in it. I don’t think toyota should be in NASCAR. It is going to open up more money for NASCAR, but in the long run it’s going to hurt it. I go to the races. If you start letting other countries race with us. Security is going to have to be beefed up. It’s like this…. goto a RAP concert, then go to a NASCAR Race. What’s the differance? No. It’s not about racisim. Its about the crowd. I won’t go to the races if there is that type of crowd. Thats why you really don’t have many Black drivers. I’m sorry if I offended anyone. But these are the Facts. You have more bad eggs in Foreign Races. Thats how it is. And no, I don’t live in the country. I live in Boston, MA. I am not a hillbilly. I just speak the Truth.

November 23, 2006 at 3:11 pm
(21) Charles says:

Are you guys afraid TOYOTA? I think so. You guys better hope they don’t put a 2jz-gte engine in the Camry.Anyways Corvette Z06 is my favorite american car.

November 23, 2006 at 3:16 pm
(22) Charles says:

Oh yeah I forgot to say this, I wish Toyota never joined either because its making NASCAR look good. And NASCAR is BORING! they’re just wasting gas.

November 25, 2006 at 12:00 am
(23) John Allen says:

You know I was well set aginst toyota in nascar when I first heard of them entering the fold of nascar,the blinde patriot in me says no keep toyota out of nascar, but, when one takes the flag out of there eyes they may see that it may-well be a needed move to keep nascar moving forward.The Isolationist is soon extinct.(Though nascar will forever be The Winston cup in my heart, I’ve sort-of came to terms with, the, nextel… chase…. thingy…)AH. Back to the point. If the europians sade no to our car builders then ford, gm, chrystlerand amc would not have the world recognation they so covet with the successes corvettes, gt-40′s, vipers, saleens had at places such as le mans,spa etc…hell europians are racing these cars them-selfs. Now if you can get the flag out of your eyes for a minute and look at the car maker your so enthralled with you may see that there cars are hecho en mexico for much less then it can be made here in the u.s. but they sell it to you for the cost of a small home. they dont care for you, just your doller, hell they just may welcome toyota to nascar becuse the blinde loyal people like you will mortage the kids inheritance and make the c.e.o’s billions buying there cars just to spite toyota. I say let them in, hell lets add another road coarse or two, and one for the chase, if there go’ing to change, like with the chase for the cup, the car of tomorrow (which i think is leaning tworde the gt side)let other car makers in’ other tire makers too. I think 07 may be interesting…

November 28, 2006 at 2:31 pm
(24) Trent says:

You guys are a bunch of rednecks that are pissed because your dear Chevy, Ford and Dodge cars will never compare with any of the forgein market. Domestic cars will never compare!

November 28, 2006 at 2:47 pm
(25) Nancy says:

Seriously, if you guys get this upset about a foreign car in your sport you have problems. Then again you are the people that LOVE to watch a car go in circles about 500 times, get a life you ignorant hicks!

November 28, 2006 at 2:52 pm
(26) Trent says:

Comment 25.. Gary, your attempt to make any sense at all was horrible! One thing does make sense, you’re a fan of NASCAR. You make your people proud.

December 8, 2006 at 3:41 pm
(27) Paul says:

Yes Toyota does Ruin nascar For me i will still watch but what does nascar stand for


NATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!that mean American the is no place in nascar for POS Toyota’s

December 8, 2006 at 3:45 pm
(28) Paul says:

if nascar helps Toyota just like it helped dodge it will not make it

GO Chevy, Dodge, and Ford

December 12, 2006 at 4:36 am
(29) Joe says:

It’s about time a competent auto manufacturer like Toyota entered NASCAR. If in case you don’t understand by now, the Camry is an American built car which is more than can be said for the Canadian built Monte Carlo or the Mexican built Fusion. Toyota hasn’t caused the loss of any American jobs either. Even if the company had never existed the so-called Big Three of Detroit still would have outsourced their factories to other nations in order to cut down the overall cost of their vehicles. This is due in large part to the high cost of labor within the United States and international competition not only from Japan but Europe as well. In terms of the blue-collared workforce in America, Toyota is essentially employing United States citizens while the Big Three are laying them off and cutting benefits.

The reason why Toyota has become such a well respected and profitable company over the past few decades is simply because they produce better vehicles for a better price. That equates simply to better engineering and better quality products. If you need an example of just how durable their vehicles are you can take a look at my family’s 1979 Toyota Truck. It was actually the fourth four-wheel drive vehicle ever produced by Toyota (we have the plaque to prove it) and has nearly 350,000 miles on the original engine and transmission. Just to prove how well built these machines are take a look at the Top Gear video in which the producers blatantly attempt to destroy the truck ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQltQ6Qzdb4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZtntPoaVQ ). I also own a 1994 Toyota Supra TT with over 120,000 miles on it and I still have yet to be beaten by a new GTO, Mustang, or Charger! As a matter of fact, when the Mark IV Supras began being shipped to the United States in 1993 its performance actually exceeded the C4 Corvette’s! Several months after its release to the US market high tariffs were placed on it to a degree that it became far more expensive to buy than Chevy’s poorly engineered flagship vehicle. It is because of the Big Three’s reliance on the government to impose tariffs and sanctions on their competitors that they have become so weakened. They also chose to embrace the massive SUV fad of the 1990s instead of concentrating on engineering advancements. That’s why GM has taken so long to produce a vehicle to compete with Toyota’s Prius ( http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=977 ).

Understand that Toyota is no longer a Japanese company they have become a global company much like many of the US auto-manufacturers are attempting to achieve. Should Toyota be accepted into NASCAR the true benefit would be the knowledge and engineering TRD (Toyota Racing Development) can bring to the sport and perhaps to the consumer should they ever attempt to market Toyota crate motors in the United States. If they are successful in their attempt to enter NASCAR my friends and I will gladly replace those seats left open by disgruntled rednecks (and I’ll beat them home in my Toyota Supra just to put the icing on the cake).

December 15, 2006 at 10:03 am
(30) frank says:

do any of you retards know that the camry will be the only nascar built in the us. since when is it a crime to produce a quality product?

December 16, 2006 at 10:23 pm
(31) Robert says:

Tell the over 9 million people that have lost their jobs to unfair trade deals that Toyota’s are American made. Toyota’s create on an average of 3 jobs in American, Fords, Chevy’s and others create on average of 7 to 9. Even with imported parts on them. Wonder why most Americans make less than what they made over 10 years ago. Give your country to Asia one sale at a time. Wise up before you lose your job.

Japanese people trust and support their automakers and others. Americans just want to look good in their Honda Ridgeline (It’s all about me)

My 1998 Ford Nascar truck has over 175,000 miles on it with replacing the front brakes twice only. And 3 sets of tires. So don’t tell me how great their cars are. Made from our scrap.

December 21, 2006 at 4:14 pm
(32) i rock says:


December 21, 2006 at 4:17 pm
(33) I Am Cool says:


December 21, 2006 at 7:14 pm
(34) Dugun says:

Toyota in NASCAR… its just aint right! It is like putting a turd in a bowl of M&M’s, it just dont fit and stinks the whole thing up. If Japan has a racing league I would expect them to not allow US made cars in either.

December 23, 2006 at 10:37 pm
(35) Robert says:

I have no problem with Toyota being part of our country, but we are not given the same option in JAPAN. Tarrifs so high we can sell out cars there. Wise up Americans and stop selling your jobs and our country down the river. Time to support out companies and our workers. Georgetown Kentucky Toyota plant pays $46,000 for 4 ten hour days, Ford in Louisville pays $70,000 for the same hours. Google the pay rate and you’ll see Why do Toyota’s cost more than our cars? Lets level the playing field? As far as you folks always defending the inports. have you ever lost your job to unfair trade. Japan’s goverment protects the jobs in Japan.

December 24, 2006 at 3:07 am
(36) Kurt says:

I started watching nascar in the mid seventies and have totally lost interest in the last few years!!!
To start out, the toyota mouthpiece(DW) and his even more goofy pathetic brother are the kind of dorks that nascar wants these days(brain dead suckups). It kinda shows just what corporate america thinks is a good image for nascar. I find the series boring and very wimpy compared to the days of David Pearson,King Richard,Cale Yarborou and our last true racer Dale Earnhardt. If they were running second and had any chance to pass the leader, even if it meant a crash, they would do it because to them, second place is the first loser. They would be more concerned about winning races rather than loosing points if something bad might happen. Either Bubble wrap the damn cars or get back to racing not this current crap nascar is shoving down peoples throats. As far as toyota, 10 years ago we would have a case to keep them out, but as of today they support the USA more then the big 3 do anymore and that is the saddest part of all!!!

December 24, 2006 at 2:09 pm
(37) Kevin says:

Hmmm, lets see here, Toyota only needs 3 people to build a car in America, but Ford needs 7 to 9? That says a lot to me. As a former Chevy lover, last year I purchased two Toyota’s. A Prius and a Camry. Both vehicles have surpassed my expectations, and the Camry is more “American” than the comprable Ford. I also have a 2006 Chevrolet Silverado for my work truck, which has been in the shop three times with warranty repairs this year. I personallay don’t give a damn if Hyundai wants to field a car in NASCAR. Maybe then those 7 to 9 Ford and Chevy (I’m not counting Chrystler, as it is now a German Company) employees it takes to build a car will get off their dead ass and build a car that will compete with my Camry – can you say resale Detroit?

Oh and by the way, my uncle was killed by the Japanese in Pearl Harbor – the vast majority of those Japanese that planned the attacks and did the fighting are all dead – If you have been to Japan lately, you will find that they have embraced all things American, from Harley Davidson’s to McDonalds. They don’t buy Ford’s and Chevy’s because they are crap – the same reason that I won’t buy them any more.

December 26, 2006 at 12:39 am
(38) Mr. C says:

This dicussion has become more about politics than the sport of racing.(1) Almost 70% of Toyota’s driven in the USA (the country I love) are built here.(2) The man power to vehicles built ratio has to do with the process and procedures they use in building vehicles (which is very stealth). (3) Recalls (2 other name plates had a larger amount) are a part of a manufacturers existance, some bigger than others. Know one expects them, it is how they are handled that shows the difference. Ask any Toyota plant employee if they want the union (they will say NO!!). If the pay ratio difference is what some have claimed (which it is NOT trust me) they would have brought in the union by now. That is what has happened to the belated BIG 3. They have been choked to death for years over that, along with other things and now everyone is seeing the results. They all will rebound and be better companies for it. As the new name plate on top with the others going through some rough roades of course they are the target, as is all that sit at the top of the ladder. Toyota USA has always had a high quality standard. Back when others were said not to have the same quality standards. Well many years later and look at the vehicle market today, all the others have stepped up to the plate and answered the challenge for the most part. But would that have happened if not demanded by the AMERICAN public by requesting there vehicles be built with that in mind? WE THE USA make that level of quality, don’t forget that!!! Toyota pushed the vehicle standards as I believe they will push the standards for NASCAR (which will make it a better sport for all, we demand it). Someone can always make there point on either side of this discission, depending on what they think, know, or have heard. Some will always think what they want no matter the facts. That is what is great about OUR country, you can have your oppinion, just don’t belittle others for there’s. NASCAR “07″

December 26, 2006 at 4:30 pm
(39) toyota rules says:


December 26, 2006 at 6:13 pm
(40) Patriotism says:

The same left wing liberals that buy Toyota’s also think Dell is the best computer too. They are told that every day in commercials at 6:00 pm on every channel. Just Google them and you’ll see the problems that plague the imports.

Do you really think that all those plants would be here if we didn’t pay them to come and take our jobs. 800 Million in Kentucky alone. When has our Government paid GM or Ford that kind of money to build a plant? The only reason Toyota’s are built here are so they can say they are American made. Because there was some that wouldn’t buy an import.

When we take our country back those that are pro foreign might have to move.

December 28, 2006 at 12:55 pm
(41) ralph says:

toyota just like those goddamn mexicans want to take over our once white country,we have to buy american if we dont who will?

December 31, 2006 at 10:48 am
(42) charles messer says:

to all your dome ass othere and i meing dome ass this is all about big big bisnuss look at dogde there owened by demler and dont forget naft that clinten puy into efect and jeff gorden owner is one of the biggest honda dealers in the usa and all of the big three that biuld cars out side off the us so end out come is dallor and cents

December 31, 2006 at 6:47 pm
(43) Gabby says:

Charles, if you’re going to use the word “dumbass”, you might want to type up a proper letter and at least use capitals when needed.

Anyway, yes Toyota has ruined NASCAR for me. I too started watching NASCAR in the late 60′s. I grew up believing in NASCAR and their American cars, and in American born and raised car manufacturers. I’m old school and that will never change, never. It all has to do with what’s in your heart. Toyota’s not in my heart, and just because Dodge is now owned by a German company hasn’t changed the fact that it was born and raised in America. If a German company bought out my contract and I had to move to Germany that doesn’t mean I’m now German. I will always be an American.

NASCAR’s been pushing me farther and farther away anyway. They’ve never asked what the fans would like, they tell the fans what they are supposed to like.

NASCAR won’t miss me because they don’t even know I exist. It’s not without trying though. I’ve sent polite letters with polite questions and positive comments but never got an answer. Hey, if you think anyone at NASCAR cares, have them get in touch with me. I’m cetainly not going to waste my time waiting for a reply.

Enjoy your New NASCAR and have a great new year.

December 31, 2006 at 9:40 pm
(44) All American says:

I have been to Indy since it went almost all Asia cars and attendance is down by 40 % since then. Some have no class and the unfair trade laws do not affect their jobs so they simply don’t care. American car companies are trying to survive and what would the harm in supporting them instead of someone in Tokyo. Who really only cares about what they can sell us. To compete the big 2 are going to have to make cars in Mexico and China. If these rotten and selfish it’s all about me Americans would only try and support American companies it would save plenty of jobs.

After 911 only Hyundai and Volkswagen contributed to the 911 funds.


They don’t want to sell their cars here. Their whole economy depends on us.

January 6, 2007 at 4:16 pm
(45) Marc says:

How many gaijen, I mean Americans, are on the Toyota Board of Directors??

January 6, 2007 at 8:29 pm
(46) u funny says:

Marc QOUTE: “How many gaijen, I mean Americans, are on the Toyota Board of Directors?? ”

hahahahahahhahahah this is funny

January 7, 2007 at 6:55 am
(47) Aaron says:

Ok, let’s see. The majority of american parts are made overseas, the majority of toyota’s are made HERE. Does it really flipp’n matter? If you dislike NASCAR because of this change you were never a fan to begin with.

January 7, 2007 at 9:04 pm
(48) Aaron should read more says:

If Aaron could read he would see that American cars have to tell origin of the parts used to build them on the window sticker and most are less than 10% of Imported parts. Over 70% on most of those so called American Toyota’s built here. Get a clue or at least read some.

January 8, 2007 at 2:43 pm
(49) Dan says:

You can talk about where cars are built and where the parts are built, but who cares? Toyota is a foreign company…period. Who’s next, Renault–maybe Honda, Suzuki. I think it should be left alone–Ford, Chevy, Dodge is plenty for me. I’m done with Nascar–this is the icing on the cake. Started with Nascar trying to find the hot young minority or female–you know–the reality shows. Shove them in the car even if they suck. Bill France can suck it. I’ll stick to the local bullring.

January 8, 2007 at 2:50 pm
(50) Dan says:

Pull a Toyota Camry up next to a Dodge Charger–hehe see ya later Tojo. It’s all about the dollars–Nascar doesn’t care as long as they are making profit. In 20 years I forsee the starting line up in Daytona consisting of Honda, Toyota, Suzuki but it will still be called the Great American Race. Later nascar.

January 10, 2007 at 12:29 am
(51) eric67 says:

Why they don’t make a real american racing with the muscle cars like Ford Mustang, the next Challenger and Camaro. That should a hell of series…

January 10, 2007 at 12:39 am
(52) eric67 says:

By the way I deeply respect Toyota Co. they build such of good cars.
But imagine the interest of a real American sports car with 2 doors ( Challenger… )instead of ( sedan) car races.

January 10, 2007 at 12:51 am
(53) eric67 says:

I heard through the grapevines that the FUSION, is a Mazda whit a Ford Jacket…

January 11, 2007 at 4:17 am
(54) bobby says:

nascar fans are stereotypes and ignorant. F1 is the real deal. Even if there’s toyota in nascar, I still wouldn’t watch it.

January 13, 2007 at 9:35 am
(55) NASCAR = WWE on Wheels says:

nASScar is professional wrestling on wheels. For all of you WWE fans out there, that is not a compliment.

January 13, 2007 at 11:51 pm
(56) LovedNASCAR says:

Hard to believe there are so many stupid people on this planet. Bigots and racists or just ignorant bullies who are afraid of everything that is not part of their trailer park existence.

Read the Autopact re Canada manufacturing, btw, most components of the Canadian built are made in USA or Mexico, just assembled in Canuckland.
Study up and understand what “public companies” mean. Who really owns them regardless of where the CEO lives.
Search and find out how much money EVERY State that has an auto factory has “invested” in acquiring or retaining the factory/assembly plant. You would be shocked at the amounts of money that is tossed at the auto companies, subsidies they are.

Remember back to the 70′s when the quality of product from the “big 4″ was so poor it was amazing they sold any at all. Oh that’s right, imports were subject to very heavy tarrifs and could not compete with the junk produced here.
Realize NASCAR lost relevance a number of years before Dale died. It is merely mass marketing to the blue collar set to sell all maner of products from womans douche to weight loss products with a “redneck automotive” backdrop.
I will never attend another NASCAR event and not because of the Toyota, because of the puking, swearing, ugly a-hole that insists in educating the kids about filthy language and even worse public drunken behavior and me have to pay 100 bucks a pop for the enjoyment.

I have never owned and foreign car and never will, but it has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, it’s just me. It has been an entertaing few minutes reading the bigotry masquerading as Mom and Apple Pie here. Sad to think they represent many others out there.

January 13, 2007 at 11:51 pm
(57) LovedNASCAR says:

Hard to believe there are so many stupid people on this planet. Bigots and racists or just ignorant bullies who are afraid of everything that is not part of their trailer park existence.

Read the Autopact re Canada manufacturing, btw, most components of the Canadian built are made in USA or Mexico, just assembled in Canuckland.
Study up and understand what “public companies” mean. Who really owns them regardless of where the CEO lives.
Search and find out how much money EVERY State that has an auto factory has “invested” in acquiring or retaining the factory/assembly plant. You would be shocked at the amounts of money that is tossed at the auto companies, subsidies they are.

Remember back to the 70′s when the quality of product from the “big 4″ was so poor it was amazing they sold any at all. Oh that’s right, imports were subject to very heavy tarrifs and could not compete with the junk produced here.
Realize NASCAR lost relevance a number of years before Dale died. It is merely mass marketing to the blue collar set to sell all maner of products from womans douche to weight loss products with a “redneck automotive” backdrop.
I will never attend another NASCAR event and not because of the Toyota, because of the puking, swearing, ugly a-hole that insists in educating the kids about filthy language and even worse public drunken behavior and me have to pay 100 bucks a pop for the enjoyment.

I have never owned and foreign car and never will, but it has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, it’s just me. It has been an entertaing few minutes reading the bigotry masquerading as Mom and Apple Pie here. Sad to think they represent many others out there.

January 13, 2007 at 11:53 pm
(58) eric67 says:

Sorry Bobby at when your next ride in Ferrari or Mercedese… Nascar is close to ordinary peoples and community instead of F1 (JETSET ). Don’t even think of visiting or talking to a F1 driver. By the way the F1 races are borrrrrrring to see like the rain. Shumacher start first guess who will finish first whit no challenge.

January 14, 2007 at 10:18 am
(59) Billy says:

well, this is all very interesting. the cars on the track no longer have any connection to the cars we buy anyway. seriously, folks, get a clue. i love to watch nascar. but it means nothing to me when it’s time to but a car. if you would go buy an impala because it wins at the track, u need help.
By the way, i haven’t heard any one call
for dodge to be taken out of the cup on account of their foreign ownership.

January 14, 2007 at 1:18 pm
(60) Tony says:

Toyoda (original name) is a Japanese company. If you buy one of their products the profits don’t stay in the USA. A lot of you deride our companies deversifying by making our products in other countries for profit. But you laud the Japanese for doing the same thing here. To the Japanese WE are a 3rd world county good only for cheap labor & raw materials. Go ahead buy your Camry buy if Jap cars are so good Where are all the old ones? They started in 1937. GM still makes parts for my 43yr old truck.

January 14, 2007 at 7:32 pm
(61) st185 says:

toyota are proving they have the potential as well… especially with a camry. ha!

January 14, 2007 at 9:34 pm
(62) eric67 says:

Billy has a good point! Dodge is owned by Daimler, and it’s now a better product and getting more credibility. It’s now over to built crap like NEON,Acclaim… Anyway, Ford and Mazda are partnership, GM with Toyota ( Vibe & Matrix ) The new Dodge Caliber is powered by Hyundai engine…

January 16, 2007 at 6:06 pm
(63) gearhead says:

What’s with all the talk of unfair trade practices in Japan? Currently, Japan does not levy tariffs on passenger cars, trucks or parts, while its largest export market, the United States, imposes a 25% tariff on light trucks. If you want to complain about protectionism, whine to the EU or China, not Japan.

Those wondering why they don’t see more Japanese cars on the road should note that the US didn’t begin importing them in substantial quantities until the 70′s and 80′s. And even then, their sales numbers were a only fraction of those produced by American companies. It’s a question of quantity, not quality.

Instead of objecting to foreign competition, you should welcome it. I don’t watch NASCAR, but I love watching Vipers and Vettes blow the doors off Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, Austin Martin, etc in the American LeMans and GT1 racing series.

January 16, 2007 at 6:37 pm
(64) gearhead says:

eric67: I agree with you on the F1 comment – there is never any passing, rain or shine, it’s all about the pit stops.

Toyota is a public company trading on an American exchange (NYSE). When they sell more Camrys, I see more dividends. I’m sure these righteous folks talking about how Toyota abuses the American workforce were up in arms about Nike sweatshops and the scores of other US companies utilizing child labor in Asia.

The reason why the Japanese build their factories here was to circumvent US trade barriers. And their capital investment in America is a good thing for us. How many US auto manufacturers have invested in plants in Japan? It’s not about politics or national pride – it’s about supply and demand. They, and much of the rest of the world, have to deal with less land and higher gas prices. This all leads to smaller, more fuel efficient autos. Unfortunately, a market segment we don’t do particularly well.

January 16, 2007 at 6:46 pm
(65) Damion says:

Just shut up nothing you say or do will stop them so just stop crying you red necks

January 17, 2007 at 9:08 am
(66) Tony says:

I agree with Gearhead that American Le Mans kicks ass. a road course with real metal cars much closer to stock than NASCAR. And no Asian cars?!, (despite the fake Lexus racing commercials) Its not about protectionisim. it’s about trade, OUR U.S. companies competing against Gov’t subsidised companies from elsewhere taking our dollars home. devaluing our economy. Buy American while you still can.

January 17, 2007 at 8:57 pm
(67) All American says:

You folks need to know that in

January 17, 2007 at 9:01 pm
(68) All American says:

You folks need to know that the Japanese don’t let foreigners own land in Japan or put any plants there. It’s in their constitution. So much for fair trade laws. Please get wise before it’s too late. And we loose the rest of our good paying jobs.

January 17, 2007 at 11:53 pm
(69) Not an ignorant american says:

scared of a little competition like the mexicans stealing your jobs?
grow some balls and shut the hell up

January 17, 2007 at 11:56 pm
(70) ur_mom says:

Just because Toyota is becoming #1 next year doesn’t mean you people have to be so ignorant about it.


January 18, 2007 at 3:55 pm
(71) gearhead says:

There is nothing in the Japanese constitution about foreigners owning land see for yourself: http://www.ndl.go.jp/constitution/e/etc/c01.html. The thing was heavily influenced if not written by US lawyers in 1947. They do have some archaic rules regarding FDI, but that only hurts them IMO.

This same fear mongering was popular in the 1980s. Japanese companies were going to destroy American jobs and take over the world! Well, look at what has happened since then: The US economy has grown in leaps and bounds while maintaining the same low unemployment rate; Japan has suffered economic stagnation for the past 10 years and the road ahead is bumpy.

They make practical cars. We make powerful, fast cars. Who do you think should win on race day?

January 18, 2007 at 10:08 pm
(72) Bill says:

Americans screaming about protected markets is a bit funny! Lots of folks here spouting the union line….20 years defending this great nation, so as a Veteran I feel free to speak my mind, the American way used to include fair competition, in the market as well as at the track or on the playing field! If GM and Ford keep up their current trends in quality and fire about half of their designers they will be competitve again, but when we brag about catching the Europeans in quality it is a sad day….
Why no negative sentiment about Dodge? They are owned lock-stock-barrel by Daimler-Benz…..also a War II enemy…..
My Toyota Sequoia is built here in the U.S unlike my brothers Suburban (Mexico), and it has more U.S. parts in it…..my 21 year old ‘yota truck has just passed 350,000 miles, 2 clutches and the occasional belt or hose is all its ever needed, original a/c still freeze your tail off, more 4×4 off-road abuse than any vehicle I’ve ever owned….glad to own them both….I work hard for my family, I buy the best quality I can afford whether it be groceries or cars….Toyota doesn’t ruin NASCAR, it may save it……..

January 19, 2007 at 10:10 pm
(73) Get Wise says:

When we take our country back from left wingers like you guys, Someone will have to move

January 19, 2007 at 10:38 pm
(74) Some One that cares says:

We have already lost this battle. We were told a long time ago that they would defeat
Us without firing a bullet. Japanese people support their car companies. Some under pretenses say they want to spend their money on what is a better product. They just simply don’t care about American companies or their employees. With most of these Patriotic Americans defending open trade and praising how much better these Toyota’s are than our cars it makes you wonder how all those commercials that they see hasn’t brainwashed them.

When our Heritage and History are gone they might be happy. Very sad. Watch the History channel instead of the View and you just might increase your knowledge of history and see the Japanese lobbyist and see how they influence our congress and senate.

And just maybe you might want to purchase a American product

January 20, 2007 at 7:04 pm
(75) so far left i'm right says:

Economic globalization at its best. American manufacturers have made deals with these japanese companys in the past. Rebadging cars and selling them as a new model. In Japan, Chevy SUVs are sold by toyota dealerships. European manufacturers like VW, BMW and Benz sell cars there and in Asia. And guess what? Americans do as well! GM’s got international branches like Holden in Austrailia and Vauxhall in Europe. Its a diverse world and its getting smaller by the year thanks to capitalist tendencies Americans have fine tuned since our inception as a country. Toyota is here to stay. Gotta come to terms with that, or you can just keep on enforcing “southern nascar” stereotypes as conservative xenophobes who resist change and progress.

The term “American” is loose these days, and I’m proud our country is a melting pot of all sorts of ethnicities, very unique that it really is a country built on the backs of immigrants!

btw, last time I checked, our American national past time: baseball is sprinkled with people from central america and occasionally…gasp…japan!

January 20, 2007 at 9:00 pm
(76) Some One that cares says:

Immigrants in the past were here to melt and become Americans. Immigrants now don’t even try and speak our language and are a burden on our health care and education systems. Wonder why those languages are on out TV’s and other items. I guarantee that so far left i’m right is driving an import and voted for the last loser congress. It is Toyota’s plan to be the top car manufacture in the world and Japan ISOLATES others from investing in their country.

On another note the baseball teams have players from other countries and that’s fine but we don’t let any foreign teams play in out leagues. Lets compare apples with apples.

Nothing is sacred anymore? What part of all the profits go to JAPAN did you not understand? I guarantee you live north of the mason Dixon line too so far left i’m right

January 21, 2007 at 11:31 am
(77) miked says:

look at half the cars, their toyotas, you are just afraid of compition.toyota is a GOOD CAR COMPANY. By the way, on History channel it said that in the veitnam war we used TOYOTAS

January 21, 2007 at 1:10 pm
(78) Another Republican says:

I can tell miked was never in the service, at that time we used 1/4 ton jeeps made by Ford. AND ANOTHER THING YOU SHOULD USE SPELL CHECK?

January 22, 2007 at 3:00 am
(79) not an ignorant american says:

people like you are the reasons we have wars.. trying to differ yourself from the rest of the world… same goes for all the terrorists..

you would think after so many damn centuarys people would accept for what they are.. people.. not countries, borders, race, skincolor, religion. etc.
now this is over a CAR RACE…. hate over cars.. how stupid is that?

January 22, 2007 at 4:11 am
(80) so far left I'm right says:

someone that cares-
I live in california, car land USA. Qualifies as north of the mason dixie line right? I do drive an import to commute in, but I own a dodge truck to haul my tools to work. I’m also the son of immigrants, and have embraced the american way of life even though I’m only 24 years old…I go to college and pay my way through with a little help from the gov’t and I’m thankful for the opportunity. I guess immigrants these days aren’t entitled to the
same lifestyle we (also mine I guess?) Americans hold dear. I may drive an import but I’m entitled to my own opinion regardless of location relative to an imaginary line. If i were from the south and still disagreed would it matter more or less?

dont like how toyota is ruining nascar? stop watching. simple as that. Let your outrage be heard in the form of lost revenue. They’re in it for money too folks. its a business. money first, and unfortunently, fans second…theres always going to be local events with local people at the speedway right?

January 22, 2007 at 9:27 am
(81) CJ says:

Hate to spoil it for the “American Brand” complainers out there, but Toyota is not the only foreign manufacturer in NASCAR.

Dodge is a Daimler-Chrysler brand, a German-owned company…who we fought in two wars that killed more American soldiers than all other wars combined. The Charger is made entirely in Canada, who we also fought (as the French and British) in a few wars.

The Monte Carlo partially manufactured and is entirely assembled in Canada as well.

The Fusion is manufactured in Mexico, who we also fought in a war.

The Camry is entirely assembled in the U.S. Toyota of America is a publicly traded company on the NYSE, so all of that money doesn’t go back to Japan.

Having said all of that, I would rather buy a car from a company that employs 300,000 American workers and makes a few Japanese businessmen rich, than buy a car that employs 200,000 Mexican workers and makes a few American businessmen rich.

January 22, 2007 at 12:00 pm
(82) Larry says:

Change is inevitable growth is optional, I think Toyota presents a new challenge to all and it will make teams work harder at making sure they stay on top of the pile. This compitition is what will make the folks that are doing the R.D. for new and inovative products work harder to make them better, same for Toyota it is a healthy positure for everyone. No one is obligated to watch or attend its a free country bogity bogity lets go racing life is to short as it is. As SMOKE would say catch me if you can bring em on.

January 22, 2007 at 1:13 pm
(83) Charlie says:

You have lost some 50 longtime fans in Michigan by using Toyotas…an American sport DOES NOT use NON AMERICAN cars. sorry we won’t be attending or watching anymore. cb/others

January 22, 2007 at 9:55 pm
(84) Cody Allen says:

I have been reading this stuff since may and i got to say some of you guys out there really Know your FACTS but you still need to get off your moms tit and just realise we(Americans) are running out of things to beable to call American. I say we give em a huge fight this year and just really let them no how much we really dont wont them here, for God sakes dont let them take this from us to

January 24, 2007 at 4:37 pm
(85) BDK says:

Nascar fans need to understand that times have changed. If you look at professional sports, there are players from all over the world particating. American athletes are also participating in foreign teams in baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. Most of the cars made by Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler/Dodge are made/outsourced in Canada, Mexico and Asia. The Pontiac GTO is made in Australia. Toyota participating in Nascar is part of our global world.

Just accept the change and move one.

January 24, 2007 at 4:42 pm
(86) BDK says:

I seriously doubt (as well as Nascar) that fans will tune out of watching. There’s always the curiousity factor that will entice fans to return and watch.

The negative publicity is free publicity for Nascar. This will draw in new as will as existing fans.

Most of you haters probably do drive an import car but decide to jump on the anti-toyota bandwagon with ignorant comments. This is a very nice example of how educated some of you folks are.

January 25, 2007 at 1:18 am
(87) eric67 says:

BDK is right… Toyota is now a part of nascar like Ford is integrated in some series in Europe. ( Have you heard Brit. or German complain about that? )At the present time and probably for the rest of our life, it’s gonna be hard to purchase a car 100% parts made in USA and so what! We must accept the new reality. Times has changed. And could we stop being so arrogant and full of condescension. The world does not belong to us. Let’s think about it guys.

January 25, 2007 at 1:42 am
(88) eric67 says:

BDK is so right, in comments 97 & 98.Stop being so frustrated and narrow minded! If you keep on believe that american cars are 100% American made and assembled in US, you’d better ride a horse. In fact I got a Chrysler with German parts and I like my car. I would probably not buy a Chrysler before Daimler acquire Chrysler. Ford and Mazda Pick up are build side by side and and Mazda trucks are powered by Ford V6 and so what.

January 25, 2007 at 1:16 pm
(89) BDK says:

In 2008, Chrysler has plans to sell cars made in China and rebadge them as Chrysler automobiles. The Sebring and the Mitsubishi Eclipse has shared the same engine. The Ford Escape and the Mazda Tribute are pretty much the same car. The Chevrolet Aveo is a rebadged car from South Korea. The Chevrolet Tracker is a rebadged Suzuki Grand Vitara. I like John Mellencamps “this is our country” song that Chevrolet exploited but it does not apply to all of their cars.

January 25, 2007 at 1:31 pm
(90) BDK says:

The reason why Toyota will soon become the world’s number 1 auto maker is because they build a quality product…period! GM, Ford and Chrysler sat on their asses and did not built cars that the “American” people wanted. The big three American auto makers are now playing catch up with innovative products that are already outdated in many countries. Its funny why some folks here still insists that Nascar should only be for “American” cars…I guarantee that none of the cars driven in Nascar today are actually “Made in America”.

January 25, 2007 at 2:04 pm
(91) BDK says:

Hey Nascar fans…the next time you go watch the races either on TV or in person, remember that the television, binculars, video or digital camera you’re viewing with is NOT “Made in America”!

January 25, 2007 at 7:32 pm


January 25, 2007 at 10:01 pm
(93) It;s too late says:

When we take our country back you left wing liberals some will have to move. And if all your nonsense is true and they really make a better car than us. Then lets all those foreign baseball teams and basketball and football teams in too.

Like the markets are open for us there. BDK is just plain ignorant!

January 25, 2007 at 10:10 pm
(94) Ken Adams says:

I for one will cheer on the Toyota Team. For years I have been a loyal Ford fan. They started the downward spiral when they got rid of the Thunderbird for the Taurus and further deminished the team by racing the @$#&$%. Sorry Office Depot but I’m following the Red Bull now.

January 26, 2007 at 9:19 am
(95) BDK says:

In response to 105…wakeup and smell your imported coffee!

January 28, 2007 at 11:03 am
(96) saiman says:

lol….kudos for toyota…love the stupid things people have to comment about. I dont mind all the neg comments but please quit watching wrestling and do a little research first please. I think toyota will do good and yes it just might clear the stands of inbreds lol

January 29, 2007 at 1:03 am
(97) beten says:

American Nascar is boring its time to bring new flavor to the track. why all u red necks don’t want nobody else in the program? Simple because racistism is still in america. Grow up and be apart of the world Japanese people built car for the whole world that’s why the work very hard for quality. not like
american.. i feel shame…..

January 29, 2007 at 9:38 am
(98) BDK says:

In reponse to 109…

For your information, I’ve owned two Chevrolets (Cavalier and Camaro) before owning two imports (Infiniti and Suzuki). All of these cars were bought used.

When it comes to used vehicles, I’d rather buy an import than a new or used domestic.

Have you read the latest Consumer Guide on used cars? Most of the reliable used cars are imports. Most of the cars to avoid are domestics….Go Figure!

BTW…I bet 99% of the electrical items in your trailer are made in another country. Especially the computer you’re typing your crap with.

January 29, 2007 at 10:29 am
(99) Last of the true Americans says:

I totally know why you say what you do because you so stupid to believe Consumer Guide. The same people watch mainstream news and agree with the crap they feed you every night too.

But it doesn’t change the fact that you support foreign companies and not American. How many jobs do we to give away before folks like you care? Does it have to be yours? I repair that Chinese crap all week we call computers and it won’t affect my job. But I have plenty of friends that have lost their jobs because of unfair trade. If only 10% more of Americans would buy American it would create 3 to 7 million better paying jobs here. You know yourself that most are working for less that what we made in the last ten years.

Your right they do make good cars, but you can pick American cars and trucks that do well too.

You just chose not to support

January 29, 2007 at 10:35 am
(100) BluefishAngeL says:

Pleassssseeee! People we are entering the final phase of this New World Order and YOU, have to remember! Out with the old and in with the new! Think Global Village and give up that die hard sovereignty for a claer path to a world that can co-exist without borders!

January 29, 2007 at 10:40 am
(101) The Profiler says:

BDK Your profile says he you are left wing Democrat non-Veteran. Anti war. Anti GUN AND PRO COICE

So easy to read

January 29, 2007 at 10:55 am
(102) miked says:

in responce to 90, im 12 yrs old. P.S. republicans SUCK!

January 29, 2007 at 1:10 pm
(103) BDK says:

In response to 115…I hope profiling is not your day job b/c I’m not a Democrat, not anti-gun and yes this is America…we all have a choice…

January 29, 2007 at 8:31 pm
(104) Check the Label says:

I once worked for Ford. At the dealership, the only parts box or package I could find that read “Made in USA” were the disc rotors which incidentally kept getting recalled due to warpage. Everything else was from Canada, Mexico, UK, Brazil, Japan, Thailand, Malta, France, etc. Yes, MALTA.

I once worked for GM. Small parts made here in America, then hauled to Mexico to be assembled into big components, & hauled back to the plant here in America to be installed in the cars.

Harleys? Post-AMF days, when Harley was Harley again….right before the big “buy-a-Harley” fad broke out. The chain….made in Japan. Forks….made in Japan. Electrical components….made in Japan. Reflectors….made in Finland. Headlamp….made in France.
Of course the bike was assembled here in America. However; let’s not forget to mention that Harley has a factory in BRAZIL now….on the Amazon River no doubt. Wonder how many parts are now from Brazil.

The days of the stereotypical patriotic lunatic frothing at the mouth & pumping his fist in the air yelling, “Buy American” are over. There probably hasn’t been a 100% American-made car produced in America since the 1940′s.

Toyotas? Darn good cars compared to all the pieces of work from Detroit I ever owned.

I welcome Toyota to NASCAR.

January 31, 2007 at 1:57 pm
(105) chad says:

We can’t have a sport of our own with out the japan butting in on our fun and American history.

January 31, 2007 at 2:01 pm
(106) chad says:

We can’t have a sport of our own with out the Japanese butting in on our fun and American history.

January 31, 2007 at 2:01 pm
(107) chad says:

We can’t have a sport of our own with out the Japanese butting in on our fun and American history!!

January 31, 2007 at 4:34 pm
(108) BDK says:

In reponse to Check the Label. You’re 100% correct. There is an interesting article written by Kevin Hench from FOX Sports. All Nascar fans old and new should read. The days of borderline racist attitudes are over…


January 31, 2007 at 9:45 pm
(109) Some of us don't like Nascar anyway says:

You can make excuses all day that my American truck is part foreign and your Asian truck which includes the Korean crap too is made here and creates all those 300,000 jobs. The bottom line is that Asian markets and their Goverments protect their companies and their jobs. And don’t allow free trade. Blame it on racism or our cars are junk. The reality is that Americans refuse to support our jobs and companies.

But by caparison and the backward trade laws. We traded millions for a few jobs.

We are breaking our back to buy more crap from China and India. Where are those tree huggers now that China and India are the biggest polluters in the world?

Go ahead put an American flag on your Toyota. Some are so proud of themselves they don’t see what’s wrong with that. It’s all about me and how good I look in my Datsun.

And it is Patriot to buy American even though some of the parts are foreign.

January 31, 2007 at 11:29 pm
(110) Those who Love America says:

Check the label should marry BDK and move to Tokyo They should b very happy driving those Subaru’s around Japan

Just Kidding

February 2, 2007 at 2:20 am
(111) VINNY says:


February 2, 2007 at 7:00 am
(112) IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU says:

Some talk of racism, I have a friend that goes to Japan on a regular basis and the Japanese people don’t like us. But I guess that’s ok. They don’t want to sell to us they have too. We are about 35% of their economy. Others say that we should forgive what they did to us. That’s why the Japanese have a party over the Arizona every year to celebrate what they did. I have a Japanese friend that draws a disability check for radiation poisoning from us bombing them after Pearl Harbor.

She drives a American car and has American flags all over he yard.


February 2, 2007 at 8:52 am
(113) Ed (Chevy The Hot One) says:

I would just like to share a view from across the pond! NASCAR has sold out and forgotten it’s roots, soon it will be a showcase of mind numbing COT’s driving around with Nissan, Honda, KIA, Toyota and a hunk of other junky brand names written on their hoods. Soon, just like Indy (The Great American Race – without an American manufacturer involved), the Daytona 500 will be a spectacle better moved to the shores of Monaco/UAE/Japan.

As an Englishman, I own three American cars I would by choice own no other! I love stock car racing, US Muscle and America out right Looking to the hero’s of yesteryear for inspiration, Herb Thomas, Fireball Roberts, Lee Petty, Ralph E and Dale, the King … these were real race car drivers from a time where convertibles raced on the beach and drivers used their racecars to drive home!

A winged Dodge Charger/ Plymouth Superbird or a Ford Torino justified the integrity of the manufacturers clearly and family’s maintained links with brands through generations.

Rubbing, banging was racing, emotions, passion, desire for victory was everything … today it is all about $$ … I appreciate it that Toyota is made in America by factories employing Americans and that freedom to choose is in the constitution … but surely it should be written that certain things remain unspoilt, unchanged part of the heritage of a great nation … don’t allow your history and tradition to be brushed aside for political correctness (like it has in England)!

I have been dirt tracks in South Dakota, the World 600 as it should be correctly known in Charlotte, Chicagoland, Martinsville, Bristol, Darlington, Sears Point, Las Vegas …. and this April I go to Phoenix for what will be my last race, NASCAR Nextel race … as I don’t want to see COT’s (Subaru Imprezza look-a-likes) or Toyota’s, as it just ain’t right!

Sorry I am a purist … Bowties, Fords, Dodge ONLY , infact bring back Olds and Plymouth!! Bring back Rockingham, North Wilksboro and the SOUTHERN 500!!

Looks like hobby stocks,Dirt Racing, ASA, ARCA, will get my support till it is over run.

Several of these current safety changes have been put on the loss of the great Dale Senior at Daytona 2001, the real question is how many of these would he have endorsed and prescribed to, eg He would not wear a full face helmet or ‘Hans Device’?

The issue I don’t feel has anything to do with racism … everyone should in a free market have the right to choose what they own, where it comes from and how much money they want to spend for it … still this does not mean that everything that is pure, traditional and like apple pie should have to be watered down to some sloppy mash of big business and the ‘don’t upset the sponsors correctness’!!


God Bless America!

PS The only other foreign manufacturer sanctioned to race in NASCAR since ’49 was English made Jaguar in the 1950′s – my feelings remain the same, National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing did not even include English built road cars, American manufacturers only!

February 2, 2007 at 9:54 am
(114) Joe says:

You southern folk got alot to learn, Toyota is here to stay-get over it!

February 2, 2007 at 3:15 pm
(115) Our Southern Values will rule says:

Hey Joe the South Will Rise Again and this time we have the Industry and the money

February 3, 2007 at 7:37 am
(116) Mike C says:

This happened in motorcycle racing as well. The sport got better when the Japanese entered. Initially it will be difficult for Toyota to run in the top of the pack and there will be much rejoicing when they don’t. But they will overcome that in short order and the sport will cease to be a chevy, ford, mopar only show. This cannot be bad for the sport.

February 4, 2007 at 1:40 am
(117) tommy stein says:

Dear Sgt Talmadge Jones:

You obviously are an illiterate moron who does not know how to spell. With idiots like you in the military, it is no wonder that we lost in Vietnam and are losing in Iraq.

February 4, 2007 at 9:56 am
(118) Tom says:

The 386,000 people employs is mainly in sales not building cars.

February 5, 2007 at 6:50 pm
(119) Bob says:

If you dont want your tickets to the races somebody else does HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

February 5, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(120) eric67 says:

This debate getting very boring and to political…

February 5, 2007 at 10:51 pm
(121) eric67 says:

I’m bored of that debate… ADIOS…

February 5, 2007 at 11:16 pm
(122) Hendrick motors Fan says:

Why do people complain about so much.
You try to get rid of Mexicans but you pay them to cut your grass. You eat their tacos and drink their taquilla.
Or you eat Asian food and talk on a sony. Watch tv on a hitachi what else ? No matter how much of an american you are you own something in your home or trailer made other than american. Stop being stupeducated and fight for what really matters in AMERICA…

I hope the next few years Nascar becomes americas # 1 sport

February 6, 2007 at 4:10 pm
(123) Check the Label says:

See, the problem is that the stereotypical “patriot” thumping his chest screaming “Buy American!” and “No Imports!” fails to wake up and see.

I HAVE SEEN where the majority of parts come from for AMERICAN brand cars & Harley. I even videoed the boxes at the Ford dealership long ago to prove to skeptics like those of you crying, “Buy American”. Anyone who works for GM knows when Adelphi was up & running well, that parts were shipped to Mexico to be assembled into components. Anyone who owns a Harley can look closely at some of the parts on it and find, “Made in Japan.” Showa forks on a Harley sure the heck ain’t American-made.

You name-callers pay no attention to reality. Even grapes in the produce section mostly come from Chile, as they did DECADES ago for the U.S. Military.

It’s just funny how when everyone starts calling everyone leftist-liberal Japanese lovers. For instance, I may be a registered Republican and my father may have fought the Japanese in WW2. I myself may be a disabled veteran who sacrificed for this country. But that’s my business.

I know one thing….the reason America became what America has become is because of you bar-stool name-callers who can’t comprehend the truth & facts, so you all just make up derogatory names to call people who try to point out the truth. Those of you who refuse to accept the fact that it’s possible for America to have lost a war (or two), or that America has turned to the Third World for car parts, or that “change” may come to auto racing.

I haven’t followed NASCAR since the days of the REAL cars when there was hardly ANY ADVERTISEMENTS posted all over the REAL body. I couldn’t stand the changes. Fiberglass, the tons of adds covering the hood & sides of the car! I liked it better when there was just something simple as “426 CID” tacked on the hood.

So, those of you who don’t want Toyota in NASCAR can either quit watching, accept it, or draft up petitions to be sent to the multi-million dollar sport – of which I‘m sure they will gladly “round-file” your petition & effort.

February 6, 2007 at 5:38 pm
(124) Edward says:

I used to be a GM guy. No more.

I purchased my first Toyota this summer and let me tell you, it is a far better automobile than anything I’ve ever owned.

American auto manufacturers are an embarrassment to all Americans. We have the worlds best Colleges and Universities, yet our autos are are not up to par with the offerings from Toyota, Nissan, Audi, BMW, Honda, Subaru, and others.

You should be pissed at Ford, Chevy, and Dodge for making crappy autos, not Toyota. It’s not Toyota’s fault that they make better cars.

February 6, 2007 at 7:55 pm
(125) Mississippi says:


February 6, 2007 at 8:37 pm
(126) Bla Bla Bla says:


Tell yourself it’s ok not to buy a Chevy or a Ford. AND IT’S NOT OK FOR ALL THOSE MESICANS TO BE HERE EITHER.

Check the label is just rambling and is not one of us and not the views of most. He will see one day

February 6, 2007 at 8:50 pm
(127) Another Republican says:

Rush L told me about people like Check The Label. You have to sink to thier level so they understand the truth. I refuse to do that. Read more and you might just understand what this attitude is doing to our ecomomy.

Forth attemp of Toyota to make a real truck with real torqe and sturdy frames. If they keep it up and keep stealing Ford’s Tecnology they might just build a good truck one day.

February 6, 2007 at 11:20 pm
(128) South Carolina says:


February 7, 2007 at 2:34 am
(129) Done with NASCAR says:

Stock car racing has been gone for some time. There is nothing “stock” about these plastic things they call cars. If that were still the case, I doubt Toyota would win many races with a stock V6 camry. I guess a manufacturer no longer has to have a real push rod V8 in their showrooms to compete in stock car racing. I have been done with NASCAR for quite a while now. Toyota puts the final nail in the coffin for me. Maybe in 08 they will start using hybrids in NASCAR.

And for those of you who think that camrys are only made in America, I see thousands of them come off the ships from Japan in Long Beach California every week!

I have owned Fords, Chevys, Toyotas, and Hondas. I have had problems with all of them. But the toyotas have had the most expensive peoblems. Two blown head gaskets and a recent fiasco with an 05 sienna minivan that left my family stranded in the California desert. Toyota does make some dependable cars but so do Ford, Dodge and GM. If the big three made nothing but junk, there wouldn’t be any still on the road.

February 7, 2007 at 3:36 pm
(130) Toyota and GM Owner says:

Americans! “Sigh” I love american cars and if i could afford to run one in England i would but at 90pence per litre of fuel its impossible. I have a 1 litre vauxhall (GM) which is 5 years old and breaks down once a week with a different fault every time, it uses 2 litres of oil a month and is very cheap and plastic. I also have a Toyota Supra with the 2JZ engine (One of the best engines ever created i might add!) which has never broken down or lost any oil/water/fluid of any kind, always starts, any weather, always spotless and even heavily modified still gets 25 miles per gallon. Its the envy of most of the people in my city and i would never sell it. I would challenge any american car to catch it or go for as long without fault. Dont get me wrong here but Toyota are providing you people with jobs that your own companies are taking away from you, as always you are on here trying to shoot yourselves in the foot. Stop winging and let Toyota show you what they can do, you may be pleasantly surprised.

February 7, 2007 at 6:36 pm
(131) Bla Bla Bla says:

You anti American folks should go to recalls.com Toyota has more recalls than all the manufactures combined.

Every night at 6:00 i see Toyautocar commercials telling you smart Americans how gret thier cars are.aND YOU GUYS ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT

Dale hasn’t got any nerve anymore and won’t win with a wantabe Nascar Toyota
Some of us know the plan of Toyota, tell us how many they employ(mostly in sales and suck the rest of you folks in)

But he is a good man just greed got the best of him

GO Green with Toyota and all your money goes to Japan

Such fools

February 7, 2007 at 8:22 pm
(132) mikep says:

A race is a race, no matter what is in the race. Get over it.
I went to my first and last NASCAR race in 1981. I was under the impression that since it got more mainstream, it was a more tolerant crowd. I was wrong.
You people should all save your breath, because when ignorance is part of the equation neither side will even consider the other side of the argument. Hence the jingoism.

Bigots suck.

February 8, 2007 at 7:51 pm
(133) Hendrick Motors Fan says:

I love my older Chevys. But I hate so say it. Look out for them Toyos. THEY ARE COMING TO A TRACK NEAR YOU.
Its going to be a great intresting year. All those REAL fans who claim to give up on Nascar you wont make it past the BUD SHOOT OUT. STOP YOUR RACISM ITS JUST A ANOTHER CONTENDER SUPPORT YOUR NASCAR OTHER WISE WATCH FIGURE SKATING SEE YOU OUT ON THE ICE……..NOT


February 9, 2007 at 5:09 pm
(134) Robbeaux says:

Its all about the benjamins..sooner or later it woulda happened..you are living in corporate AMERICA..Home of the SELLOUT

February 10, 2007 at 1:32 am
(135) PorterHouse says:

When i read these comments i picture hairy flanel-wearing, confederate flag-toting grime balls. You know what, i wish the south had won and seceded, then all you ignorant people would have your own country. Ultra-conservative morons. Half of you don’t even know how to speak english correctly. I’m surprised you idiots even have computers down there. God, just leave. Its not even about NASCAR. We’re in the age of globalization. Eventually it will be one world, and countries will be states. We are all on the same planet, we’re all in this together, who cares if the company is owned by our neighbors across the Pacific? And speaking of you using the term “National” being American only, explain to me why there are Canadian teams in the NBA, NHL, and NLL. And what about the Toronto Blue Jays in the AL? Idiots, do us all a favor and leave, take your bibles and guns with you.

February 10, 2007 at 1:49 am
(136) steve says:

first of all we have a unfair trade agreement with the oriental countries.US manufactuers cant sell there cars overseas. two, people are brain washed that toyotas are so great. they right now have one of the largest recall campaigns going.third, a camery as a race car? there is no such thing as a hiperformance camery or toyota for that matter. nascar has gotten boring over the years. its all about marketing and stupid commercials.they have sold out. they should go back to homoglating cars, as they did back in the60′s. lets see, ford as mustangs , shelbys ford gt…chrysler has srts, charger,magnum… chevy has corvette etc. toyota has nothing!! zero! no street performance! they should be band from nascar and the US govt should step in and say,you can sell your cars here as long as we can selll our american built cars over there.period.

February 10, 2007 at 7:48 am
(137) Tom Smith says:


February 10, 2007 at 9:31 am
(138) Mike Maish says:

I think toyota will make nascar a little more exciting. But its not that that i look at i look at how theyre all of a sudden putting in a foreign car in a sport thats been all american for years from the start these foreign companies are messing up our economy as is we dont need them racing in one of the biggest sports in our country. Theyre trying to take over everything of ours in the way of large businesses and run them in their countries and take away our jobs. Im totaly against this act.

February 10, 2007 at 1:12 pm
(139) KEN PLACHECKI says:


February 10, 2007 at 3:25 pm
(140) Bla Bla Bla says:

You anti American folks should go to recalls.com Toyota has more recalls than all the manufactures combined.

Every night at 6:00 i see Toyautocar commercials telling you smart Americans how gret thier cars are.aND YOU GUYS ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT

Dale hasn’t got any nerve anymore and won’t win with a wantabe Nascar Toyota
Some of us know the plan of Toyota, tell us how many they employ(mostly in sales and suck the rest of you folks in)

But he is a good man just greed got the best of him

GO Green with Toyota and all your money goes to Japan

Such fools and Porterhouse needs to move to Japan

February 10, 2007 at 7:06 pm
(141) tom says:

They got there buy changing the rules. Are you sure that this is nascar or mabe it is tWWF

February 10, 2007 at 7:06 pm
(142) tom says:

They got there buy changing the rules. Are you sure that this is nascar or mabe it is the wwf

February 10, 2007 at 7:55 pm
(143) Mike says:

Jesus, you ignorant rednecks are embarrassing.

Toyota does more for america than any of the other “big three” (ignoring the fact that toyota is actually number 2 in our country. It employs more, pays more, makes better products.

Frankly, NASCAR has always been nothing more than rednecks turning left, so Im a bit surprised toyota even cares to join. I suspect they will easily dominate within 2 years.

Dont like it, NASCAR fans? tough. Your time is up.

February 10, 2007 at 8:20 pm
(144) scott mit says:

nascar is a america sport not a japan sport.japan and china is what is wrong with us now.

February 10, 2007 at 9:54 pm
(145) Those who Love America says:

Let us inform this ignorant Mike about economics. I live in Louisville Ky and those folks at Georgetown Toyota plant for 4 10-hour days make $46,000 a year. For the same amount of hours at Ford in Louisville they make $71,000. So tell me why a Camry cost more than a Ford 500. Profits go to support the people in Japan that don’t like us.

So stop making excuses for giving our jobs away.

Talk to some at the Toyota plant and see how they are treated. Sounds like American needs to wake up before it’s too late. I haven’t seen Toyota do much in the truck series and won’t do much in the cars either. Read the history books about Japanese can only imitate and copy our technology.

I don’t know where you get your information but I have friends that work at both plants. What does it take to justify not supporting Americans and their jobs?

The debate will end when these Misinformed Americans will wake up and stop making excuses,

Your car is imported too?
All the parts on your car are made in Japan and China?
It’s a Global economy?
They make a better car?
They employ millions of Americans?
American cars are junk?

Listen to yourselves , You choose not to support our country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

February 11, 2007 at 7:31 am
(146) Tom Smith says:

Automaker Jobs. U.S. automakers employ twice the number of autoworkers – on a per vehicle basis – as foreign-owned companies. Even with recent cuts, Ford and GM each employ more Americans than all foreign-owned automakers combined. And Chrysler’s U.S. job “footprint” is about 20 times the size of Hyundai’s. Honda, one of the largest, longest operating “transplant” manufacturers operating in the U.S., employs approximately 28,000 Americans, but that is still about one-fourth the number employed by Ford.

Supplier Jobs. “Made in America” matters even more when you look at the men and women working for auto parts suppliers that serve automakers. These companies employ nearly twice as more Americans than the automakers themselves. And Ford, GM and Chrysler purchase approximately 80 percent of the parts these people make. Based on market share, foreign automakers should be buying about twice what they are.

Research & Development. Tomorrow’s jobs will depend, in part, on today’s R&D – particularly in fuel efficiency and safety.

The Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), an association of 14 Japanese automakers doing business in America, notes that they collectively employ more than 3,600 R&D workers at 36 facilities nationwide. Honda operates 10 facilities employing 1,300 R&D professionals. That’s great, but more than 65,000 Americans (20 times JAMA’s total) work in 215 automotive R&D facilities in Michigan alone.

February 11, 2007 at 12:57 pm
(147) Those who Love America says:

Don’t you think the only reason they employ in American is so we’ll buy more of thier trash.You know that’s why they do it. They can say Toyota’s are built in American. When the reality most are still built in Japan

Stupid Americans

February 11, 2007 at 2:32 pm
(148) Robert says:

It’s like comparing Waylon Jennings to Shania Twain. Old CW vs. today’s CW. NASCAR vs. Stock car racing. Anyone seen a real Pontiac or Mercury in NASCAR lately? I’d like to hear the opinions of drivers such as David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Alan Kulwicki, and Bobby Labonte. NASCAR changed forever in the 80′s & 90′s. Cars like the Taurus were allowed to compete. Restrictor plates are the unfortunate norm.

These days, it’s Hollywood NASCAR. Everyone focuses on the drivers (the cars don’t play poker), and all the flash. Now, all of a sudden the CARS are important just because the Toyota Camry has arrived?

Carroll Shelby took Ford to Europe and won. The Europeans didn’t want him or his Fords there….at first. It inspired others to become competitive. Perhaps the Toyota effort will provide motivation for GM and the rest to help make NASCAR interesting again.

That, and eliminating restrictor plates once and for all.

February 11, 2007 at 6:32 pm
(149) Ron says:

This discussion seems to involve a lot of name calling instead of looking at what is taking place in NASCAR. Can anyone explain the differences between the “stock” cars? The rules are such that the NASCAR cars draw from a common pool of parts that bear little if any resemblance to what we buy in the showroom. Gone are the days when the hemi that raced had a lot of common parts that you could buy in a car that looked like the one raced. How in heaven’s name can you call any of the cars “stock cars”? NASCAR has stretched it too far. I would like to see the days return when the GM used an engine that you could buy in an actual car. You can substitute whatever car manufacturer you want because they are all playing the NASCAR game. Please avoid labeling me. I presently have 3 vehicles in my garage. The Pontiac TransSport was picked for its plastic and 3800 V-6, the Chevy Tahoe Z-71 for its truck heritage and strong small block, and the wife gets the Toyoya Camry V-6 because nothing seemed as smooth and reliable. I enjoy my Tahoe but it has had its share of electrical problems and little annoyances. NASCAR was once an American race. However, things are changing. Unless the domestics wake up to what is and has happened to quality and reliability, NASCAR will have to be different because the writing is already on the wall. I once owned GM stock and shares in GMAC. Guess what happened to my investment? All the shouting and name calling will not affect what is likely to take place unless some real changes are made by the “American” automotive industry. It will take more than talk by the automotive executives. I think we are more than ready for action. . . . time will tell!

February 11, 2007 at 9:49 pm
(150) PorterHouse says:

NASCAR isn’t even a sport. All you rednecks that love it should go sleep with your cousins.

February 11, 2007 at 11:15 pm
(151) Bla Bla Bla says:

What brand of Asian crap do you drive PORTERHOUSE. Makes you mad that Americans support Americans and comments don’t fit your agenda.

So sad, i feel sorry for you. Did you see how poorly Dale did so far with that wonderful Camry

February 12, 2007 at 6:04 am
(152) Joe says:

Question for all you that are against anything non-American. What monitor are you using as you read this and where was it made? Where was the computer and its parts that you’re using made? Or the Cable or DSL Modem? What about the keyboard and mouse that you’ll be using to flame me with — where were they made? How about the TV that you use to watch NASCAR and Fox News? If you’re truly American, you’d throw it all away and buy an old RCA, GE or Maganavox TV from a thrift store and not use a computer at all since they all use parts made from foreign countries, even the first PC’s that were American made like Apples or Timex-Sinclairs or Ataris. But then you couldn’t use the internet. I guess you can sell your soul and justify that, right, but at the same time criticize others that drive foreign cars. Can you say hypocrite? I thought you could.

February 12, 2007 at 8:47 am
(153) Devin says:

Im not really in favor of Toyota coming into NASCAR but now im say “Bring em on”. I think its really going to be something for the Big 3 to use as a marketing tool cuz Toyota is never going to get talented enough drivers to come over cuz drivers like Gordan, JR, Johnson, and Stewart are never going to cross company lines. The only thing i have to say is if a Toyota wins a race the fans in the stands better have some serious balls cuz NASCAR fans arent exactly the nicest guys in the world.

February 12, 2007 at 1:55 pm
(154) Mark says:

To the poster that comments “I personally do not care if the Toyota’s are made in my basement….it is still a Toyota. And I would love to see the reaction of baseball fans if the champion Japanese team were permitted to compete in the WORLD series….don’t think that would go over too well. And why, because the World Series is AMERICAN. For me it has nothing to do with where the vehicles are made, or how many Americans they employ, or how reliable they are (I gave my Chevy Beretta away with over 500,000 miles by the way). It comes down to this…….Toyota is not an American company.”

Could you be anymore idiotic???

The WORLD series. Let’s say that again together….. The WORLD series. Last I checked, there was never anything other than American teams in the WORLD series. Doesn’t seem too much like a WORLD series to me. Maybe the American series ot the North America – South of Canada series, but not the World Series.

February 12, 2007 at 2:54 pm
(155) Denise says:

In the end, I think time will tell whether or not Toyota will be good for NASCAR. Personally, I think it’s about time some other car manufacturer decided to take on, or rather be allowed to compete with, the only three manufacturers that have been in the sport the last few years. I miss the days when there were more than three car manufacturers (there used to be Buicks and Pontiacs, what happened to them?). I think this is a great step for one of the top seeling car manufacturers here in the US. I look for the day when Honda and Hyundai put cars into the race. And for those of you who are giving up your seats just because there is/are Toyotas now in the race – thank you! I’ve been waiting for those seats for a long time!

February 12, 2007 at 8:03 pm
(156) Bla Bla Bla says:

Same old excuses and cop outs Joe, does not make it right to let them in Nascar.
Make up some more excuses for not supporting Americans and American Companies

February 12, 2007 at 8:54 pm
(157) Joe says:

Who’s making excuses, Bla Bla Bla? First of all, this started as a discussion about Toyota in Nascar. It’s turned into an America versus anything foreign-made. If you could read, you’ll notice I didn’t say anything about Toyota joining Nascar. I simply pointed out the hypocrites who are against Toyota for being a foreign company while at the same time using foreign-made computers among many other things in their daily lives, like you, who is using “Asian crap” to read this post.

Who’s the one calling out others for driving Japanese cars but at the same time using foreign-made equipment to do it with? Funny how you can justify that but have no tolerance for others buying foreign cars. You are a hypocrite plain and simple and make your rules based on how it suits your needs. Now go ahead and go back to surfing the net with your foreign made computer equipment and watch TV on your foreign-made TV. Then when you get up tomorrow and put on your foreign-made clothes and your foreign-made shoes, drink your coffee from your foreign-made coffeemaker and eat your toast from your foreign-made toaster, you can feel good on the drive in to work knowing that your driving an American car (made with foreign parts). Hahaha, what a moron.

For the rest of you, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and buy nothing but American-made things. If you can’t find American-made items like computers and TVs, then protest and stop using them! How you live with your double-standard is beyond me. I guess foreign-made “crap” is okay if it suits your needs, right?

February 12, 2007 at 11:10 pm
(158) Bla Bla Bla says:

I don’t get a choice with most things that i buy but your still making excuses. Joe has anger issues too

One day people will wise up

February 13, 2007 at 2:30 am
(159) steve says:

i think im going to go back to why im tiring of nascar.one,de jr. dont get me wrong i like the guy but the commercials , the marketing, and his rabid fans is to much.two,i dont like the aeroblob cars.started with the tauras and now they are all the same.same body,more or less same engines.three, nascar has gone hollywood,nuff said.four,sorry,but i hate toyota.the american companys have contributed alot towards nascar .but now that they are getting kicked in the teeth i think nascar should be there for them by keeping it american.im totally for trade at all levels, but why wont the countries in the orient,japan and china allow american built cars to be sold in there country.in china for example ,if you want to sell an american car over there,the car has to be built there and 80%of the parts for that car has to be made there.like i said im and im sure most people are for trade but its got to be fair.

February 13, 2007 at 4:38 am
(160) Joe says:

Hopefully one day Bla Bla Bla will wise up. You don’t have a choice? Please. Talk about making excuses. You always have a choice. I don’t think using the internet or watching TV is a life necessity. But I guess it’s more important to you to keep your lifestyle and sell your beliefs and buy foreign. Since you told someone else to move to Japan for driving a Toyota, why don’t you move to Taiwan or China for using their computers and TV’s? There are custom made TV’s and computers that you can buy that will lessen the amount of foreign involvement somewhat, but are you willing to pay $3000 for a 19″ TV? You’re so concerned about American auto workers — how about all those factory workers YOU put out of business when you bought those foreign made TV’s, clothes and computers? Or are they not important enough that you can just brush them aside so you can have your cheap consumer electronics and apparel. Don’t know if you or your kids play videogames, but I hope you bought them X-Boxes instead of Playstation and Wii’s. At least Microsoft is an American company, right?

By the way, I’ve owned three cars in my lifetime, and 2 of them have been American, including my current one. And I would be willing to make my next car an American one. I care more about getting a solid car and a good value than where the parent company is from.

February 13, 2007 at 6:00 pm
(161) Bla Bla Bla says:

Joe has so much anger and guilt. Sorry if i make you mad and made you ramble about your choices and making excuses about mine.

Some men are like women and have to have the last word.


February 13, 2007 at 10:21 pm
(162) mike l says:

first off, you people who like toyotas so much should go back to japan and drive them their. you are lucky your in the USA because in china and japan you cant voice your opinions like here in america. nascar is an AMERICAN sport. all you people who never had to work for your money dont understand what trade is. when a forgien car is sold the money goes right out of the country except the workers wages. the cars are made to forgien standards, with mostly forgien parts.

February 13, 2007 at 10:32 pm
(163) mike l says:

crash and burn burn you white collar traders. i will be sure to fight extra hard for your right to bad mouth this great country while im fighting in iraq AMERICA F-ING RULES

February 13, 2007 at 11:08 pm
(164) PorterHouse says:

Mike, go back to grammar school before you go to Iraq. Maybe Kerry was right about people like you, botched joke or not. Also, Bla Bla Bla, i drive a 1998 Lincoln Continental. NASCAR is for possom-eating, cousin-slamming, confederate-flag waving, toothless rednecks. BTW, Joe is a smart guy, listen to him, or better yet, just go kill yourselves.

February 14, 2007 at 1:46 am
(165) Welcome Toyota says:

You bunch of ignorants and uneducated people who know nothing about the car industry. Toyota is going to win the auto world because the big three are chicken out without a good fight. Bring it on Big Three!!

February 14, 2007 at 9:57 am
(166) eric67 says:

C’mon guys, dont develop a cancer for that. Nascar will get more exposure all arounbd the world whit toyota. IT,S all about $$$

February 14, 2007 at 10:01 am
(167) eric67 says:

Come on guys! Don’t develop a cancer about this… Toyota will gives more credibility to Nascar all around the world. It’s all about $$$$$$$$ + 1 .

February 14, 2007 at 1:40 pm
(168) Another Republican says:

Somebody is mad? We are the sellout country and love money more than supporting our companies or our workers. Porterhouse i drive a 1998 Nascar truck and i have a 135 IQ. IF YOU HAVEN’T SERVED IN OUR MILITARY YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OUR MILITARY I support you Mike and we will rule one day!!!

February 14, 2007 at 2:12 pm
(169) BDK says:

Chrysler’s Valentine’s Day massacre
The Daimler-Chrysler honeymoon is really over.

Read more:


February 14, 2007 at 2:14 pm
(170) BDK says:

The big three U.S. automakers need to produce the products that the “American” consumer wants. We’re all not pick-up and SUV drivers.

February 14, 2007 at 2:16 pm
(171) BDK says:

Let’s congratulate the Dixie Chicks for winning five Grammys!!!

February 14, 2007 at 2:21 pm
(172) Patricia says:

I am a proud American. I was born in Europe, but this is my country now. I will only buy American BRANDS. I’ve always owned Chevys. Wonderful trucks –never a problem. I’d propose to those NASCAR fans who hate Toyota (I do too) not to leave NASCAR. Instead, keep going and bring banners exposing Toyota for what it is. Toyota is trying to destroy America’s auto industry. For those who talk about using Asian-made TVs, I’d suggest to know your history. The Japanese companies “dumped” products in the USA. That is, the sold their units at a loss here until they drove all the American makers out of business. In the meantime, the same companies were overpricing their customers in Japan to compensate for the losses here. Dumping is a very common practice that the Japanese us.It’s about time that we stop these unfair trade and business practices. Educate the people

February 14, 2007 at 3:04 pm
(173) Last of the true Americans says:

Finally a smart answer for those who can’t see what’s going on now in America

Let’s congratulate Patricia instead.

They have done this for years while their goverment helps them destroy our companies and Americans just brag about how good asian cars are

February 14, 2007 at 7:40 pm
(174) eatenhogg says:

This site cracks me up. I can’t wait till NASCAR goes under. It’s the most boring sport on the planet. I’d rather watch curling. It sounds like a lot of people here need to take business 101. Patricia needs to take business 101. Has anyone ever heard of Walmart? American company that puts a lot of Americans out of work. But wait, don’t they hire a lot of people? Yeah, illegal immigrants at poverty wages. I guess half of you wouldn’t consider what Walmart does as “dumping” product though.

February 14, 2007 at 9:39 pm
(175) Dennis Miller says:

Some Ford owners hate Chevys. Some Chevy owners hate Fords. Some Chevy and Ford owners hate Dodges. Some have the little Calvin cartoon window sticker wizzing on their “rival U.S. auto emblem”. Someone told my Dad he “can’t get into heaven driving a Dodge.” Some Big Harley owners laugh at Sportster riders. Some Windows PC owers hate all Apple Macs. If my kid wants to race Motocross, I don’t have the “buy American” option. Some NASCAR fans are now boycotting NASCAR? I could go on and on. I have never watched a NASCAR race in my life, but after reading all of the posts above, I will watch the Daytona 500 on Sunday just to see what happens!!
Thanks to all that posted, great reading! I love all of the back and forth commenting. My first car in 1985 was a bone stock 1962 four door Chevy Impala for $500. Man I loved that car! I was born in America and have only been to a 3rd world country once. I’m glad we have the freedom to have so many choices of what to buy! Sorry, I can’t afford to buy anything Caterpillar product, but I sure won’t try to run one off of the jobsite! -And no, I am not related to the famous Dennis Miller.

February 14, 2007 at 10:13 pm
(176) mike l says:

first off porterhouse, i am not a red neck by all means, nor am i a confederate flag waver. i live in new york. making my living welding, may be a little redneckish, but work hard, 8-10 hours a day behind a helmet. but i earn every cent of the 26.50$ i make. but i have three kids to support, a car payment, and all my bills. my wife left me for “pencil pusher” if you will. im not giving you a sob story, but i a am an american, who works hard for my money to support my family.

February 14, 2007 at 10:29 pm
(177) mike l says:

my first comments to porterhouse must of been to vulger to post. you shut up about our military too. its because of people like you our country is in the state its in. dont you dare insault me or what i stand for. as for nascar, only true fans or exfans can slander it. and i may not be the smartest person but i sure do know a retard when i see or hear from one. you better hope we never meet. because it wont be pretty. and i have plenty of people behind me!

February 14, 2007 at 10:32 pm
(178) Last of the true Americans says:

Mike don’t explain yourself to a left wing liberals like Porterhouse. I am from Kentucky and I share your values and opinions. Don’t sink to his level and give him a platform to ramble his trash. Others don’t care about fair trade laws either. But they can’t silence us with their cheap attacks or make fun of us without looking like total butwipes.

Keep your values and eventually they will go away.

February 14, 2007 at 10:43 pm
(179) mike l says:

and the big three are not afraid of competition. waltrip had jet fuel in his intake manifold. he needed a little octane boost to keep up with the pack after that poor show at the bud shoot out. all the other toyotas did the same thing but it all got sucked in the cylinder and combusted, leaving no evidence. but other american teams cheated for fear of being showed up by the octane boosting toyotas. also you cant buy toyota crate engines. but you have a huge selection of american engines.

February 14, 2007 at 10:56 pm
(180) mike l says:

thanks last of the true americans. i get very angry with people like that. but for all you non americans, thats the good part about this country, if you dont like it, you can leave. see how far you can get with your half baked ideas and opinions.

February 14, 2007 at 11:00 pm
(181) Yishimita Ishimoto says:

I love how some people here expand horizongs. But you narrow minded morons… get over it. Toyota is the US’s biggest manufacturer or cars. Did I mentioned they DID NOT lay 13,000 people off like Chrysler did?

Oh yeah… I wonder where the Gauges, Bolts, Circuits, Crew Computers, etc. were made??? OH YEAH! MADE IN TAIWAN!

February 14, 2007 at 11:29 pm
(182) Tom says:

Hey Mike, I don’t think porterhouse’s hubby knows ahe’s on the computer trashing true Americans. If he did I’m sure he’d btch slap her! God bless you and good luck in the desert. Tom, RVN 69-72

February 14, 2007 at 11:30 pm
(183) mike l says:

plus american stock engines make more horse power than those unproven toyotas. a 350 chevy makes 350 HP right out of the box. more than a special order toyota that needs to use jet fuel to even keep on the lead lap with the big three. you cant even by a toyota racing engine unless you got an extra 50,000 layin around. but you can buy a chevy race motor for about 17000

February 14, 2007 at 11:49 pm
(184) mike l says:

thanks tom im on a medical leave now. i got my fingers caught between a wheel hub and the wheel bearings and crushed 3 of of my fingers and i cant move 2 of them. im still waiting for my second surgery. they say i might not be able to return for 3 mounths and will need lots of theripy. yishimita ishmoto, what ever that means, american companys cant compete with forgein companys to pay their high but fair and well deserved wages so they lay them off with lower wages.

February 15, 2007 at 12:08 am
(185) matt luce says:

i think toyotas are great for nascar. it should drive off a whole bunch of you dumb hick rednecks. toyotas will dominate in nascar. GO TOYOTAS

February 15, 2007 at 12:25 am
(186) mike l says:

thats all its about is the money, and who sells more cars

February 15, 2007 at 12:56 am
(187) tony says:

hey, does everyone know that there’s free public education in this country? it’s been out for a while.

February 15, 2007 at 1:29 am
(188) mike l says:

lets put it this way, we live in a free country. you have the choice to buy a forgein car, no one can tell you not to. and if you choose to be stupid and buy one, and sell out you country you can. but when it comes right down to it, you come one step closer to losing that right by doing so.

February 15, 2007 at 1:44 am
(189) mike l says:

eatenhogg, this is about nascar, not walmart and how they come into small towns and how they shut down small stores. but dont they hire illeagel alians. thats the problem at the border. dont mix them 2 up. and wal mart was never meant to be a giant corp.

February 15, 2007 at 2:21 am
(190) mike l says:

i just read toyotas are the #1 choice among gays and lesbians. and im not gay bashing either, my cousin is a lesbo. but i am saying anyone who favors toyotas over the big three is gay.

February 15, 2007 at 1:14 pm
(191) Q ball says:

your opinion doesnt mautter eiter

February 15, 2007 at 1:40 pm
(192) PorterHouse says:

Mike is by far the dumbest dude i’ve ever met. Come meet me, i live in Buffalo. By the way, i’m in Army ROTC and am an independent, conservative here, liberal there. Think for yourself you brainwashed oaf. Take that 26K you earn a year and go to school, get a better job, feed your kids (who you’re probably brainwashing as well). God i hate stupid people.

February 15, 2007 at 4:50 pm
(193) mike l says:

where in buffalo, im about 15 miles south east in elma. maybe we can race. my 67 chevelle with a 502 supercharged big block that makes 632 HP against your old man car. only the strong will survive, so i say shoot them all and let god sort them out.

February 15, 2007 at 4:56 pm
(194) mike l says:

where in buffalo, im about 15 miles south east in lancaster. maybe we can race. my 67 chevelle with a 502 supercharged big block that makes 632 HP against your old man car. only the strong will survive, so i say shoot them all and let god sort them out.

February 15, 2007 at 5:02 pm
(195) Get Wise says:

NASCAR fans who hate Toyota (I do too) not to leave NASCAR. Instead, keep going and bring banners exposing Toyota for what it is. Toyota is trying to destroy America’s auto industry. For those who talk about using Asian-made TVs, I’d suggest to know your history. The Japanese companies “dumped” products in the USA. That is, the sold their units at a loss here until they drove all the American makers out of business. In the meantime, the same companies were overpricing their customers in Japan to compensate for the losses here. Dumping is a very common practice that the Japanese us.It’s about time that we stop these unfair trade and business practices. Educate the people

Name callers like Porterhouse are not the smart ones in American and Joe Import should go to Japan and see what they think of us

Niether one has over a 100 iq and want to talk about Mike

February 15, 2007 at 5:04 pm
(196) Q ball says:

joe import, how much horse power does your car make. 90? 120? 150? is that with nos or jet fuel in the intake

February 15, 2007 at 5:05 pm
(197) Last of the true Americans says:

I served from 1972 -1978 Your a wantabe Porterhouse Rotc?

February 15, 2007 at 6:10 pm
(198) joey says:

To keep NASCAR “american” All you have to do is dumb down the rules more – I suspect Toyota had to engineer an old fashioned carb. equipped pushrod V8 to get there.
So move the rules back even further so that only flatheads are allowed.
Racing is supposed to improve the breed

February 15, 2007 at 6:13 pm
(199) PorterHouse says:

Last of the true Americans, you were probably a private or something, don’t even consider you a veteran. Wannabe? I’ll graduate 2nd Lt. then your dumb enlisted ass can salute me. BTW Mike, go shoot yourself. Let’s race! Sure moron. You have carseats for your children in there? Go away. Get wise, you said, “Name callers like Porterhouse are not the smart ones in American.” We are not the smart ones in American? In American huh? Think about that one, i won’t even say anything, i’ll let you figure out what is wrong with that sentence oh wise one.

February 15, 2007 at 6:38 pm
(200) mike l says:

come on porterhouse, where you live. and i wouldnt dare race with my kids in my car “moron”. you really use that word alot. same with “go shoot youself”. very mature and original come backs. you know you are wrong so you take it out on real americans. i pitty you.

February 15, 2007 at 6:47 pm
(201) Last of the true Americans says:

I was an E-6 Staff Sergeant Combat Engineer and I had 2nd Louie’s like you lighting my cigarettes. Went to the NCO Academy. An officer is a gentleman but Sergeant’s make things happen. You are such a looser Porterhouse

February 15, 2007 at 6:50 pm
(202) IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU says:

Porterhouse is still a child, do you want him defending you. Listen to him

February 15, 2007 at 7:02 pm
(203) dead head says:

what is nascar doing letting those people drive them in there. they come in and all this drama and problems arise? whats that man.

February 15, 2007 at 7:41 pm
(204) finkster says:

personally i like Tomos, wish they made a racecar…….Swarm and Destroy!!!!!

February 15, 2007 at 8:08 pm
(205) Q ball says:

tomos suck! the are very under powered

February 15, 2007 at 9:17 pm
(206) Tonyv says:

Lots of support for Toyota…Yeah they employee americans. But all the money goes back to Japan. Justify it any way you want it’s a Japanese company. They are hurting American Companies. NASCAR is an American sport born in the south. You like international racing then support F-1 or IRL. Yeah….see how popular they are….

February 15, 2007 at 9:52 pm
(207) joe import says:

My toyota has a 3.5L V6 that pumps over 300hp. It gets great gas mileage and rides like a dream. If America made a car that came close I’d consider it. But they don’t.

Instead, they bring back the tired old models that look like they did back in the ’60 (mustang, charger). The new stangs have 4.0L V6 and put out less HP than my Lex.

As far as this crap about our money going back to Japan. Toyota employs americans. Americans can buy their stock on the NYSE and make money.

Competition breeds innovation and I’m glad to see a new blood in NASCAR.

Love the comment (joey) about Toyota dumming down their car with carbs and pushrod engnes. LOL!!

February 15, 2007 at 10:00 pm
(208) Holy Shiite says:

Toyota thinks that they can just waltz in here, open a lot of factories, spend a ton of money, and win our hearts and minds.

Real American companies like Walmart ONLY sell foreign goods when they have NO alternative. At least that’s what the greeter told me when I wanted to buy a TV made in America. Walmart only sells foreign goods when American goods are either not available or are overpriced.

GM, Ford, and that German company that owns Chrysler ONLY make their cars in foreign countries when American workers are either NOT available or are OVERPRICED. That’s what the Ford saleslady told me when she sold me my Mexican sedan.

And that German company that owns Chrysler doesn’t get to take ALL of their profits, when they have them, back to Old Europe. Plenty of US citizens like me have a share or two of stock.

Pretty soon most of our radios, cell phones, and computers will be made overseas , if indeed that hasn’t happened already. Too bad for you young folks … I’ll be dead, and you can stick around to settle up the debts we owe to Japan and China and those other suckers who keep floating us the loans.

And that, my friends, is what this is all about. You get to be pretty friendly with those people who can call in your debts.

A trillion here, a trillion there. Pretty soon we’re talking REAL money.

February 15, 2007 at 10:04 pm
(209) mike l says:

bullsh*t, what with twin turbos, nos, duel injectors and jet fuel in the intake. and toyota doesnt make v 8s that make 300 with out a performance up grade. and carbs on race cars arent ment to save gas

February 15, 2007 at 10:51 pm
(210) Tom says:

If Porterhouse is typical of the future leadership of our Army we are in trouble. Attitudes like that come and go every day, thats about all the longer they survive. Had he been with me in 69 his name would surely be on the wall today. He won’t survive.

February 15, 2007 at 10:52 pm
(211) eatenhogg says:

Mike I,
I’m not saying this is about Walmart. I’m simply commenting on on the idea, that some people her have, that Toyota is taking American jobs. The real fact is that Toyota is employing Americans, paying significant amounts of state and federal taxes, not to mention how they pay American advertising agencies and media to advertise their product. They pay employees salaries, health insurance and benefits. What does Walmart do? Pay minimum wage and make their people work overtime without pay.
What has happened to NASCAR in the last two years? Empty seats? Lack of expansion? The fact is that NASCAR’s popularity has peaked and if the fans are smart, love it or not, they’ll embrace the shakeup and expand the sports popularity. Think pro wrestling. The evil Toyotas against the underdog U.S. cars. Face it you guys, you’re being played for ratings.

February 15, 2007 at 11:02 pm
(212) mike l says:

us cars arent the under dog. i see what your saying, but if thats what it comes to china and japans gonna own us. and all because people dont understand fair trade.

February 15, 2007 at 11:04 pm
(213) Tom says:

Eatenhogg – did you see the figures today on the US trade deficit? How many cars does GM/Ford sell in Japan?

February 15, 2007 at 11:13 pm
(214) eatenhogg says:

All they have to do is install a slant 6. the sound of valves tapping will drown out
headsets, allowing the Fords, Chevy’s and Gm’s a significant advantage.

February 15, 2007 at 11:29 pm
(215) mike l says:

a ingrediant thats in jet fuel i should have said. my bad

February 15, 2007 at 11:33 pm
(216) eatenhogg says:

Do you understand why the U.S. doesn’t sell cars in Japan? first of all, the U.S. companies don’t bother to research the market. Japanese don’t want huge SUV’s or pickups. Second, they have a third of the population we have. Combine that with companies that understand how to market to Japanese. Third, welcome to the global economy. U.S. workers make three times what other industrialized nations make. Most U.S. companies use parts made in other countries. So who are you talking to? Even GM and Fords are assembled from parts made in Mexico, Taiwan and China. When are you people going to understand that big business is big business and profit rules at the expense of workers. Nobody cares about you, especially the Republicans. They sold us down the river for shares in foreign companies.

February 15, 2007 at 11:40 pm
(217) mike l says:

its the fact of the matter, nascar is american. not international.

February 15, 2007 at 11:52 pm
(218) mike l says:

free trade isnt fair if we cant sell our cars over there. but they can import as many as they want. and people are stupid enough to to fall for it.

February 16, 2007 at 12:06 am
(219) eatenhogg says:

Mike I,
Mike, Mike, Mike. Your missing the point. There is no such thing as American. America is made of foreign parts. Unless your name is Geronimo or some other native American name, you’re an import. So you think that cars made of parts from other countries counts as American racing? Try Australia. They still race real stock cars, not commercialized pieces of foreign crap.

February 16, 2007 at 12:15 am
(220) Tom says:

Eatenhogg – They can’t sell cars in Japan because Japan won’t allow it. Do the research. How many cars in Japan are built with American Parts? How many American cars are built in Japan by Japanese workers? Don’t GM/Ford they doesn’t do market research, or Japanese don’t want SUV’s or pickups. General statements that really say little. Major Corps. like GM/Ford know very well the market in Japan. And they don’t only produce SUV’s and pickups. You and I know they produce many models competative with Japanese models. Harley Davidson can’t sell bikes in Japan to the extent they want, yet wealthy Japanese will pay exorbitant prices here in the States and high shipping fees just to get a Harley. The market is there. And yes, those in Japan who can afford it do want SUV’s. We do agree on the Big Business/Politicians dilemma we find our selves in. They don’t give a rat’s ass about us, only profits. Welcome NASCAR…oops I’m sorry, JAPCAR, to their ranks.

February 16, 2007 at 12:15 am
(221) eatenhogg says:

We can sell our cars over there. They just don’t want to buy them. Look at Levi’s, they sell a ton of jeans to Japan. They don’t have a problem. Like I said, American car companies are ignorant to foreign cultures. They don’t market their product effectively. Have you ever been to Japan? If you had, you would understand why American cars don’t sell there.

February 16, 2007 at 12:19 am
(222) dead head says:

go america

February 16, 2007 at 12:25 am
(223) eatenhogg says:

You have a very selective opinion about import tariffs. Look at Brazil and how much they pay to import ethanol into the U.S. All because American farmers can’t produce ethanol as efficiently as Brazil.
The fact of the matter is that foreign governments protect their industries while American politicians sell ours down the river. Don’t blame Japan, blame your own country. Big business rules your life.

February 16, 2007 at 12:27 am
(224) mike l says:

yet they can sell gay over rated cars here

February 16, 2007 at 12:30 am
(225) eatenhogg says:

sorta like the last Ford Thunderbird?

February 16, 2007 at 12:35 am
(226) Tom says:

Hogg – they buy Levi’s because of the name only, and they are probably made in Taiwan besides!! Also, what do you mean there is no such thing as American? The American Indian has only been “native” since their ancestors crossed the Bearing Straits some generations ago. And yes, I have been to Japan. Spent several hours at some American air base several times when flying to and from RVN. I made the round trip 3 times from 1969 to 1972. I didn’t want to be there then, and have no desire to go back now. Don’t really give a sh#t about them, what they want, do, or think. I do, on the other hand, want them out of my life her in my home country, America. The land inhabited by Americans.

February 16, 2007 at 12:38 am
(227) mike l says:

by the way, nascar cars are custom made in usa. forged, ground, milled and built by americans right here in the usa. except the toyotas, made in japan, shipped here put in the cars. they cant be tuned or modified in any capacity. thats that!

February 16, 2007 at 12:44 am
(228) eatenhogg says:

Tom White Buffalo,
You’re right, Levi’s, another American company sold out. I guess you can trace your ancestry back 3000 years. I think Japan has changed a little since Viet Nam. I’m sure the Japanese really don’t give a crap about another drunk American
soldier either. The land inhabited by Japanese.

February 16, 2007 at 12:53 am
(229) carcrafter says:

Chevys Rule, toyotas SUCK. eatenhogg doesnt know anything, nor does joe import. mike, stay on one topic and you will sell over better.

February 16, 2007 at 12:57 am
(230) Tom says:

Hogg – not sure were you are going w/ this post. I can trace my ancestry back exactly 2 generations. I knew my mother’s family. She passed away in 1974. My father was killed in a B-29 in Feb 1951, before I was born. Never knew him or anything about his family. I do know my surname is of Irish origin, my mothers of German origin. I think Japan has changed quite a bit since World War II. You will have to explain the intent of your “drunk American soldier” remark, it’s lost on me.

February 16, 2007 at 1:03 am
(231) mike l says:

all yous that dont like america can leave.

February 16, 2007 at 1:06 am
(232) eatenhogg says:

Really? I guess nascars can’t be modified either? No piston boring or honing, no new
cams. No intake or exhaust mods. Do yo think Toyota would enter NASCAR without a state of the art facility in this country?

February 16, 2007 at 1:08 am
(233) Tom says:

Lucy – there’s an old saying you would do good to heed… “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your stupid than to open it and prove it.”

February 16, 2007 at 1:13 am
(234) eatenhogg says:

Sorry, my mistake. I ass(umed) if your were in Japan in the late 60′s/early 70′ that your were either on r/r or in transit back CONUS. No offense. Not many civies in Japan during that time.

February 16, 2007 at 1:21 am
(235) Tom says:

Dead Head – I think you’re the only one on this site who’s in control!!

February 16, 2007 at 1:38 am
(236) Tom says:

Hogg – Clarification. I served 3 tours(almost) in Nam. US Army. 2 w/ 1/82 Arty, 23rd ID(AMERICAL), 1 w/ 1/21 Arty, 1st Cav Div, A.M. Was seriously injured 29 MAR 72, 3 months into 3rd tour. My time in Japan was in transit, both ways. Total time spent in Japan was probably about 8 – 10 hours. Never mixed w/ them, never wanted to. I still expect an explanation of the “drunken Soldier” reference. PS – did take 2 RR’s to Bankok – LOVED IT!! Dead Head was probably there too!(Just a joke guys)

February 16, 2007 at 1:43 am
(237) mike l says:

eatonhogg, you must not of heard it straight from the horses mouth. get a connection, you might learn somdthing.

February 16, 2007 at 1:55 am
(238) carcrafter says:

the engines are limited to certain mods. all of them. toyotas tech team is not as advanced as the big threes. so toyota can only do so much before it has to be sent back. but we do have the upper hand because we are time proven. and that really means alot in a time proven sport. but team toyota has admitted speed problems.

February 16, 2007 at 2:13 am
(239) dead head says:

hey porter horse, take it easy on him. he is in our military man. you cant talk about our service men and woman like that. you should be ashamed of youself. hit the pipe man, you might calm down a bit.

February 16, 2007 at 2:14 am
(240) Tom says:

Look out boys, PorterHouse is lookin’ for a loin!! CYA!

February 16, 2007 at 2:24 am
(241) michael l says:

eatonhogg, its CYLINDER, not piston. and boring and honeing cant be done hours before a race. to big a job. they change gears and A/F ratios mostly before qualifying. after post qualifying inspection you dont touch nothing in that area. bitch

February 16, 2007 at 2:30 am
(242) Tom says:

Hey Mike, you know how to bore a piston? Whisper sweet nothings in it’s rod!

February 16, 2007 at 2:39 am
(243) Tom says:

Hogg – still waiting.
Dead – Do the dew. Do a shotgun, man?

February 16, 2007 at 2:42 am
(244) mike l says:

tom, didnt get the last one.

February 16, 2007 at 2:45 am
(245) Tom says:

HHHhhhewpppPPP good one dude…….

February 16, 2007 at 2:48 am
(246) dead head says:

man, i got to go to work at 6. i should probly sleep eventully.

February 16, 2007 at 2:54 am
(247) michael l says:

good idea dead head

February 16, 2007 at 2:56 am
(248) Tom says:

Mike – I thought I’d make a joke while we wait for Hogg and PorterHouse to respond. You and I both know you don’t bore a piston, you bore a cylinder. My joke was almost as boring as them two. In fact, I think it put them both to sleep! Just you, I, and DeadHead left! Hogg aint got the balls to clarify his “drunk American Soldier” remark, and PorterHouse is already down at the gay bar.

February 16, 2007 at 3:01 am
(249) dead head says:

who needs sleep man. mike must have a family or something

February 16, 2007 at 3:03 am
(250) Tom says:

Dead – “eventually” being the key word. Don’t sweat the small stuff, sleep is only a five letter word. If you late now, you’ll be late later!

February 16, 2007 at 3:12 am
(251) mike l says:

tom,i see.theyshould get there sh*t together before they act like they know it all. dead head, i think its porterhouse, not porter horse. but it is funny. isnt porterhouse a type of steak

February 16, 2007 at 3:18 am
(252) mike l says:

i think dead head passed out

February 16, 2007 at 3:25 am
(253) Tom says:

Porterhouse is generally considered the best cut of beef. That and Fillet Mignon. They both breath arrogance, contempt, and a pompas ass. PorterHouse thinks he’s going to be a big cheese once he completes ROTC. The common term in the real world for a 2nd Lt is “butter bar”. Need I say more! If he’s lucky he’ll end up in a unit with a E-7 who’ll set him straight. If not, they’ll just frag his ass.

February 16, 2007 at 3:29 am
(254) mike l says:

he thinks hes a big shot

February 16, 2007 at 3:31 am
(255) Tom says:

Naw, Dead’s just taking a deep hit!

February 16, 2007 at 3:33 am
(256) Tom says:

Yeah, he might be the big man on campus, but reality awaits him!

February 16, 2007 at 3:39 am
(257) Tom says:

Mike, I think we shut them all down and put DeadHead to sleep. I’m going to call it a night and check in again tomorrow. You take care. Hope your hand gets better!!!!!!!! Tom

February 16, 2007 at 3:43 am
(258) mike l says:

im done for tonight. this thing is slow as waltrips toyota. gotta do a defrag and virus scan and all that other time consuming sh*t. probly should be done sometime. tell eatonhogg to go to a mechanic school and learn the differance between a piston and cylinder. semper fi

February 16, 2007 at 3:50 am
(259) Tom says:


February 16, 2007 at 5:38 pm
(260) Tjack74 says:

As far as NASCAR is concerned, I guess I don’t see why Toyota can’t run. Let’s face it, the cars have nothing to do with “stock” cars anyway. They are purpose built racing machines. Any resemblance to real street automobiles is for effect only.

I don’t like Toyota much. It is a foreign company whether they assemble in the US or not. Notice I said assemble. The fact is that Toyota’s are made of parts made elsewhere, and that is where the economic value is. The history of government subsidies from the Japanese goverment and trade restrictions has been unfair. The thing that really hacks me though is the fact that Americans have given up on US manufacturers and don’t give them a chance. I own a lot of US made cares today. (like 8) I don’t own one with under 100K on it. The highest mileage one is at about 230K. American cars ARE quality today. I have a 2001 with 135k on it that has never had any service accept brake jobs. Not even spark plugs. It runs like a top. There just aren’t a lot of bad cars made anywhere anymore. When you buy a foreign car you are feeding foreigners. I would rather feed Americans and keep from having to pay more in taxes to support the entitlements that they will require if they wind up unemployed. Give and American car a change!

February 16, 2007 at 6:39 pm
(261) maineac says:

I think this old song called “Working for the Japanese” by Ray Stevens says it all!!!


Buy it, download it!!!

February 16, 2007 at 8:20 pm
(262) NARUTO says:


February 16, 2007 at 8:35 pm
(263) NARUTO says:


February 16, 2007 at 9:19 pm
(264) dead head says:

man am i burnt out. where is everyone dude.

February 16, 2007 at 9:29 pm
(265) mike l says:

dont know grateful dead dude. i think porterhouse commited suicide. hey, if you are ever “truckin up to buffalo,” stop by. maybe we can find porterhouse and eatonhogg and teach them something. we might run into tom and he can give us a hand.

February 17, 2007 at 12:02 am
(266) PorterHouse says:

Homosexual jokes, i’m not gay but you are doing nothing but show the bigotry and hatred that the ignorant Americans can generate. Sigh, this forum is boring, just you hicks using it as an instant messenger program. BTW, i live in North Buffalo, on commonwealth off of hertel. Do your worst. Farewell nascar lovers.

February 17, 2007 at 12:04 am
(267) Tom says:

Hey, glad to see everyone is awake again! I myself was up at the crack of noon, as usual.

February 17, 2007 at 12:13 am
(268) Tom says:

NARUTO – thats OTURAN backwards, as in OUGHT TO RAN!

February 17, 2007 at 1:40 am
(269) mike l says:

by hockey rink on tacoma. my friend lives in the brick house right in front of the rinks driveway. meet me there at noon sunday. walk in and go to the door at the top of the first stair case. if i dont open the door, ask for steve. my name isnt mike, thats what everyone calls me and use i use it more because my birth name sucks. dont be late nancey boy. no guns or gangstaz either.

February 17, 2007 at 2:04 am
(270) lincolnwelder says:

Boy, you guys are really at each others necks! Mike l(or steve), did you go to the lincoln welding course in Ohio in 99? You remind me of someone that was in my class. Also, the offical welder of nascar is lincoln. Can’t have a car with out a welder? So they can’t have a car with out an American made welder now can they? The sport revolves around the USA, not japan. Keep nascar American. Lets show them toyotas what we are made of!!!

February 17, 2007 at 2:21 am
(271) mike l says:

porterhouse, better yet lets meet behind the hockey rink. and we can race down delaware if you have any balls! or is there to much traffic and stop lights? than when its said and done i will smoke your a*s in a drinkin contest at kellys corner. or are you too much of a light weight. thats the one thing i missed when i was in the corps. drinking is my real game and i am dam good at it.

February 17, 2007 at 2:35 am
(272) mike l says:

no, not in 99 lincoln welder. it was 00. missed you by a year. went for tig, stick and mig. mainly use stick though. i used to weld for the town on plow trucks and the occasional case tractor.

February 17, 2007 at 10:19 am
(273) maineac says:

Mike Waltrips favorite tune!!


February 17, 2007 at 12:56 pm
(274) So true says:

That song is really about wanking!

February 17, 2007 at 1:32 pm
(275) Patricia says:

eatenhogg, this is what you say:
eatenhogg says:
February 14, 2007 at 7:40 pm

“This site cracks me up. I can’t wait till NASCAR goes under. It’s the most boring sport on the planet. I’d rather watch curling. It sounds like a lot of people here need to take business 101. Patricia needs to take business 101. Has anyone ever heard of Walmart? American company that puts a lot of Americans out of work. But wait, don’t they hire a lot of people? Yeah, illegal immigrants at poverty wages. I guess half of you wouldn’t consider what Walmart does as “dumping” product though.”

First of all, if you hate Nascar, why are you here??

As for your claims that I need to take a course:
I took BUS 101 and got an A. You, au contraire, are an ignorant. There is a big difference between dumping practices and controlling the market. Walmart has grown this much because is able to obtain massive discounts from its suppliers due to volume ordering. Actually, Walmart has the power to “force” reduced prices since a supplier can’t afford to lose Walmart as a customer. To control monopolies that can unfairly control market prices and destroy competition, we have laws. They don’t always work.
Dumping is an illegal business practice and requires -most of the time- the collaboration of a government. Japan has conquered many markets like this, and as I said in my previous posting, that is how the American TV industry was killed. The Japanese auto companies started conquering the market here by dumping cars. That is a fact. Now they don’t need to that but the damage has been done. What they do now is taking advantage of two things:
1. Japan’s government subsidizing health care and other labor costs.
2. An American culture that thinks that if it is foreign, it must be better.
People are free to buy any car they want. However, do not rejoice when our car industry suffers because of your choices. And know that eventually someone will have to pick up the tab if any of our companies goes under. Who do you think will pay for the expenses of all those being supported by the pension and health-care funds? Uncle Sam! Who is Uncle Sam? All of us, paying more and more taxes. Remember that when if it happens, and then remember that most of the Toyota profits are now subsidizing Japanese citizens. You want a Japanese auto? Fine. Live with your conscience.

February 17, 2007 at 2:38 pm
(276) mike l says:

patricia, that is the smartest and most truthful thing ive heard in a long while. people really dont realize what buying forgein does to our country and that sums it all up. glad to see more than a handful of people know the truth.

February 17, 2007 at 4:38 pm
(277) Now I'm really confused... says:

So if I buy a Harley, can I live with my conscience knowing that all of the Japanese parts on it are also going to subsidize Japanese citizens?

February 17, 2007 at 8:10 pm
(278) Harvey Feltersnatch says:

“You want a Japanese auto? Fine. Live with your conscience.” That has got to be the most evil, disgusting, twisted and disturbing thing I have ever read in my life. It just makes me want to puke. People in America are online arguing about buying Toyotas and the fact that they are in NASCAR? Let’s be concerned about more important issues in America, like the fact that we are one “dirty bomb” away from Martial Law.
I do enjoy dead head’s input…smoke up!! ___:

February 17, 2007 at 8:33 pm
(279) Wade Gagner says:

I hate the Idea of Toyota in Nascar. First are Politicians give away our jobs with there free trade act .Then they brain wash everyone on how bad American cars are. And now that Toyotas are built here that makes them American {WRONG!!!!}we are simply the monkeys assembling the pieces that they ship to us .Almost every nut, bolt, and part, is shipped from japan for us monkeys to assemble. And now the big 3 are on the verge of collapsing. So for all of you believing this is a good thing your wrong its just another piece of America that I’m not happy about giving up.

February 17, 2007 at 9:30 pm
(280) Huge Jardon says:

Ricky Carmichael and a whole lot of U.S. AMA Motocross racers make hundreds of millions of dollars racing on U.S. soil paid by Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, along with the enormus industry that surrounds it. I admit, I feel a bit confused when I see a Toyota Camry in NASCAR. The retail version is a quality automobile, no doubt about it. Let’s all gather around the TV and watch the Dayton 500 while we celebrate capitalism at it’s best!! I agree that Toyota and NASCAR “don’t mix” for sure, but the U.S. and Japan/China/Taiwan/Singapore/Germany/Italy/U.K. etc. are not meant to be “separate.” Come on dude, when the Hard Drive in your computer goes up and you have to run down to BestBuy and buy a new one, turn the box over and see where it is a “product of.” We can’t possibly make every product available in the U.S. Your “American” Flag was probably made in China along with each and every one of your Christmas decorations by communist prisoners that can’t even voice their own political views.
Check out this pic of a multi-millionaire and if you have any compassion in you, it might actually give you a chill!

February 17, 2007 at 10:35 pm
(281) whistledick says:

Walmart…Waltrip, what’s the difference? I shop at Target and watch real World Class Motorsports. Walmart and NASCAR go hand in hand. I’ll watch the Daytona 500 regardless of who’s in it! Then in March I’ll watch the Dayton 200…look it up! Even bigger news than Toyota in NASCAR and the NASA chick driving 900 miles in a diaper and who’s the daddy of the late great Anna Nicole…Britney Spears shaved her head, holy s#%t balls!

February 17, 2007 at 10:50 pm
(282) mike l says:

you people dont get what nascar is about do yous? it is an american sport. if toyota should be in nascar we might as celebrate july 4th by sending japan our money. its what you do when buy toyotas. and we should only mix to a certain point. yes,forgien trade is good, but when toyota puts the big 3 out, it isnt a good mix or fair trade. as far as MY flag, it was proudly made in the USA of US made materials. very few people understand what american means. we live in america, we have the right to complain

February 17, 2007 at 11:08 pm
(283) dead head says:

mike man, were have you been. did she really shave her head. we missed tom last night.

February 18, 2007 at 12:10 am
(284) i-mean-noharm-justhavinfun says:

So would you not buy, burn or boycott an American flag that has a “Made in China” sticker on it (I see them all the time). It is merely a symbol of alligiance to your country, not a car. Tell us, “you people” as you say, what it means to be an American (which you don’t even begin the word with a capital A, show SOME respect. A real American would never start the word in lower case. Toyota shouldn’t be in NASCAR, that would be a down grade for Toyota and they will NEVER put the big 3 out, trust me. You should stop worrying and being so angry, I bet you think about Toyota in NASCAR all day and night, see they have gotten into your brain…you might even find yourself one day at the Toyota dealership buying yourself one of them there new Big Bad 2007 Tundras!

Britney looks like an alien now!

-hit some ___: like dead head and mellow out, life is not permanant.

February 18, 2007 at 12:19 am
(285) Patricia says:

Harvey Feltersnatch:If you imply that we should not be concerned about Toyota and Nascar, why are you here??? Go to a political website.
As for your comments:

Ha! You probably don’t read at all. I guess you just watch TV and shows like Fox’s 24, and that explains your paranoia about being a ” “dirty bomb” away from Martial Law.”
Grow up, Harvey.
By the way, no offense since you may not be one, but your tirade sounds very gay: “That has got to be the most evil, disgusting, twisted and disturbing thing I have ever read in my life.”

Right out of a girly Broadway play.

February 18, 2007 at 12:26 am
(286) Wade 46 says:

Thata boy slater go jump in your nissan AND DO YOUR PART. Some day it’ll be your job .Our politicians don’t care, Neither do you. My parents were born here there parents were born here.And I’m sick of being taken advantage of . First it was TV’s ,then Furniture ,Then steel, now cars. A country that doesn’t make anything is nothing. Whats next???.So excuse me if I wish they would stay out of my NASCAR THAT I GREW UP LOVING .And BY THE WAY my father was a Moto cross & scrambles champion on a BSA ,and I’m proud of that .And I watch F1,drag racing,V8 Supercross from Austrailia I like it all but it all has its place and Toyota does not belong in NASCAR

February 18, 2007 at 12:30 am
(287) what the...? says:

quote: “we live in america, we have the right to complain”
what the…. man we live in the U.S.A. the greatest country on the planet, the leader of the free world, we have NOTHING to complain about. do you have running water, electricity, beer, food on store shelves, gasoline on every corner, internet at home, beer, television in every room, heat, paved roads, jobs available everywhere, cable TV, beer, fast food, beer….etc?
you cant really be serious with lame replies like that? how i stummbled on this stupid site and actually read the weak posts on it, that’s it i’m gonna smack myself in the nu%s with a rubber mallet for this

February 18, 2007 at 12:39 am
(288) mike l says:

never in my life would i by a toyota “truck”. their biggest is a little half ton. and they have no balls. i will stick with my chevy 3500. lot better than that old lady truck. and America is not a word, it is a name. and i some times i dont like to make the extra effort to press shift because im doing this with one hand. so dont throw stones. my other one was crippled serving my country in iraq. im good with the country for my loss serving her. she will forgive me till im better.

February 18, 2007 at 12:49 am
(289) mike l says:

we are complaining about toyota ruining nascar, not about our luxuries. nascar is all American, and if you dont agree, i dont know what else to say. and im out of beer.

February 18, 2007 at 12:54 am
(290) Tom says:

Evening everybody. Harvey – what is important to America? Being fearful of some idiot group/ideal? Let me quote Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence(I’m sure you have never seen this before!) – “… all experience hath shown , that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms which they are accustomed.” We have put up with our politicians and corporations selling our country for profit long enough! I draw the line here. NASCAR is AMERICA! If they want to change the name to IASCAR they can do so. But we all know this is about more money. The same as NFL requiring people to buy their network. Screw them!!!

February 18, 2007 at 1:00 am
(291) Tom says:

Mike – I got beer. How long does it take you to get to Wisconsin? Bring Dead Head and Patricia with you. We’ll party all night and sleep right through Daytona.

February 18, 2007 at 1:03 am
(292) mike l says:

man, this is how i get treated after serving my country for the rights of me and all on this page? maybe i should just crawl into a hole and die? fu*k that. anyone who doesnt like what i say can leave. or stay. once again you have the right. but what a way to talk to a s

February 18, 2007 at 1:11 am
(293) mike l says:

live pretty far away man. that would be cool though. people can be so disrespectful. it kind of crazy. i wonder if dead heads still up.

February 18, 2007 at 1:13 am
(294) i-mean-noharm-justhavinfun says:

thanks for your service brother

February 18, 2007 at 1:20 am
(295) Tom says:

I have an idea. We all know this about money, and money talks. Whet if an organized boycott could be accomplished and pick one or two races this year to make a statement. What if they had a race and no body came!

February 18, 2007 at 1:21 am
(296) mike l says:

this site takes so long to load on my computer. think its time for a new one. maybe ill start an American computer company made from American parts. call it fu*k toyota computer corp. i dont think i can watch the race with them toyotas in it. did you read the comments from earlier. what idiots.

February 18, 2007 at 1:35 am
(297) mike l says:

want to go half with me for a pizza? got a taste for it

February 18, 2007 at 1:41 am
(298) Ronnie says:

You bet your ass Toyota in NASCAR bothers me, and a hell of a lot of others as well! Kiss another fan good buy! Guess Toyota was just too ambitious and had a lot of money to through into the NASCAR kitty. Heck they will prolly leap to number one in world wide sales if we keep turning our backs on Chevy, Chrysler, and Ford!

February 18, 2007 at 1:41 am
(299) Tom says:

Yea, with extra cheese and lots of beer!! How’s the hand doing?

February 18, 2007 at 1:43 am
(300) dead head says:

just stopping in for a second to see what i missed dudes. gotta go pick up my lady. make sure to talk about the dead man.

February 18, 2007 at 1:44 am
(301) Tom says:

Ronnie – you got it right, it’s all about money. Your invited to the party! Mike will pick you up.

February 18, 2007 at 1:53 am
(302) mike l says:

pretty bad. cant even take out my new snowmobile. dumped all that money in and cant use it. but my kids put 426 miles on it this season. sometimes i just want to cut off my hand. but i wasnt paying attention so its my fault. but sh*t happens.

February 18, 2007 at 2:02 am
(303) mike l says:

good one ronnie, toyblowtas. them poor goodyear tires. must suck to never being able to excced to their speed limitations.

February 18, 2007 at 2:11 am
(304) mike l says:

cant belive its been so cold up here for the past mounth. hasnt gone above freezing in 28 days. steak boy must of lost what ever balls he had and decided to go back to gay dating sites.

February 18, 2007 at 2:21 am
(305) mike l says:

pizzas here. they even delivered the beer. thats what i like about the pizza place out here. told them to just bring the whole 30 pack. can up to 43 bucks.

February 18, 2007 at 2:39 am
(306) Tom says:

Sounds good. Hey, its supposed to be in upper 30′s here next week. Going to have to break out the picnic basket!

February 18, 2007 at 2:47 am
(307) mike l says:

its gonna warm up here monday. you here about the october 13 storm we had here in western ny. that was crazy.

February 18, 2007 at 1:25 pm
(308) Just Saying says:

I’m Just saying, how funny, everyone in America love the big 3 but what have they done leave to other countries to make there cars..And what’s funny is GM has a car and had cars made by Toyota like the Pontiac Vibe(Toyota Matrix) Geo Prizm(Toyota Corolla)even the almighty Duramax engine on their trucks are made by the Japaneses Isuzu.. some people need to start reading what their engines labels say..Also Ford has used Japanese parts on there vehicles like the Probe with the 2.0L Mazda engine..Dodge(Mitsubishi) all I’m saying is that the big 3 have had to use the Japanese materials to once make quality cars….anyways let’s not be ignorants the big 3 are leaving thousands of americans without jobs and taking them to other countries let’s keep in mind without people working how are they going to buy stuff and keep this country runing…Toyota is making jobs in this country, true the money they get for each unit they sale doesn’t stay here but the one each employee makes does plus they got good benefits.. Right know Canadians and Mexicans are making money from companies that should have americans working for them because thanks to use and our pride of US brand have taken them to the top but they are not so intelligent after all because the money we could be getting from them for our labor to their companies we could be spending buying their products but we can’t..that’s why they keep going down hill..I know for some of you is hard but you need to open your eyes they are not giving us nothing in return for keeping them runnig so f*ck them….That’s why the economy of the US is f*ck but oh well again I’m just saying…I think Toyota should be welcome in Nascar is only a sport.. I mean if Baseball is so American well that’s at least what we say why its there so many player from other countries??? because we suck at everything so we need foreign people to teach us how to do it right….

February 18, 2007 at 1:37 pm
(309) cbk says:

If u people are REAL FANSSS u gonna watch it no matter what… because if u think americans are the best… why not let toyota be a fool, but of u r so mad and scare it might be because u know toyota could beat the american easily…

February 18, 2007 at 3:10 pm
(310) Get the message from a smart lady says:

Dumping is an illegal business practice and requires -most of the time- the collaboration of a government. Japan has conquered many markets like this, and as I said in my previous posting, that is how the American TV industry was killed. The Japanese auto companies started conquering the market here by dumping cars. That is a fact. Now they don’t need to that but the damage has been done. What they do now is taking advantage of two things:
1. Japan’s government subsidizing health care and other labor costs.
2. An American culture that thinks that if it is foreign, it must be better.
People are free to buy any car they want. However, do not rejoice when our car industry suffers because of your choices. And know that eventually someone will have to pick up the tab if any of our companies goes under. Who do you think will pay for the expenses of all those being supported by the pension and health-care funds? Uncle Sam! Who is Uncle Sam? All of us, paying more and more taxes. Remember that when if it happens, and then remember that most of the Toyota profits are now subsidizing Japanese citizens. You want a Japanese auto? Fine. Live with your conscience.

February 18, 2007 at 4:44 pm
(311) CHUCK says:


February 18, 2007 at 5:06 pm
(312) CHUCK says:

Just saying post no.359 says it best.All you red necks and hicks should read it.Get somebody to help you with the big words.

February 18, 2007 at 5:41 pm
(313) mike l says:

maybe you people should read. if people bought American, then the jobs would stay here because the big 3 would be able to pay to keep the jobs here. talk to a uaw worker. they will tell you the samething, after all it is what they work for. and it is more truthful coming from them rather from a bunch of office workers just looking for a fight because they know its the forgien car markets fault for the lose of jobs sent overseas. get your facts straight. waltrips 40 th. so how good is that? oh wait, its bad

February 18, 2007 at 6:25 pm
(314) It;s too late says:

More excuses from Chuck for not supporting American companies and American workers

Lets compare apples with apples

February 18, 2007 at 6:39 pm
(315) Anti-rednecks says:

I don’t even know why Toyota is wasting money being involved in such a stupid redneck game. Toyota is the most successful automaker and has no need to impress a bunch of stupid redneck, aka NASCAR fans. It should save that money to keep producing more quality cars that will kill GM, Ford and Chrysler to extinction.

February 18, 2007 at 7:18 pm
(316) HA HA says:

comment #48 is an ignorant redneck

February 18, 2007 at 7:35 pm
(317) IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU says:

Lucky Slevin is just plain stupid about economics global means fair trade and there is nothing about fair trade with these Asians

February 18, 2007 at 7:37 pm
(318) It;s too late says:


Just worded it the wrong way. he’s thinking what plenty of us are saying

February 18, 2007 at 7:39 pm
(319) What part of this posting do you not understand says:

This is how the Japanese destroyed our television market in the 70’s. Does anyone care?

Dumping is an illegal business practice and requires -most of the time- the collaboration of a government. Japan has conquered many markets like this, and as I said in my previous posting, that is how the American TV industry was killed. The Japanese auto companies started conquering the market here by dumping cars. That is a fact. Now they don’t need to that but the damage has been done. What they do now is taking advantage of two things:

1. Japan’s government subsidizing health care and other labor costs.
2. An American culture that thinks that if it is foreign, it must be better.
People are free to buy any car they want. However, do not rejoice when our car industry suffers because of your choices. And know that eventually someone will have to pick up the tab if any of our companies goes under. Who do you think will pay for the expenses of all those being supported by the pension and health-care funds? Uncle Sam! Who is Uncle Sam? All of us, paying more and more taxes. Remember that when if it happens, and then remember that most of the Toyota profits are now subsidizing Japanese citizens. You want a Japanese auto? Fine. Live with your conscience.

February 18, 2007 at 7:42 pm
(320) ha ha says:

Comment #373 is a cousin humping redneck

February 18, 2007 at 8:24 pm
(321) It;s too late says:

whats your iq ha ha mine is 145 loser!!!

February 18, 2007 at 9:42 pm
(322) Patricia says:

I am puzzled by someone who’d take my post (#319) and re-publish it under a different name (#361, 374). While I am thankful that this person seems to really appreciate my comments, please do not use my words without quotes and sourcing them.

February 18, 2007 at 10:10 pm
(323) redneck hater says:

NASCRAP racing sucks,it’s the worse form of motor racing on the planet.
I don’t understand why Toyota would
lower themselves to this form of piss poor hillbilly entertainment.
Well since they are in it now,I guess they will make a point to the big crapola 3 car makers that they still and will always produce garbage that nobody wants to buy.

February 18, 2007 at 10:22 pm
(324) tj says:

Toyota is a good company
the are building a giant factory in indiana and they already have many other factories in the us

February 18, 2007 at 10:24 pm
(325) CdnFan says:

omg you people make me laugh. To start with, if the “N” in NASCAR is for National, then all of you Americans should get out of the NHL and stop playing hockey. It’s a CANADIAN game. Same goes for the NLL. And, the “B” in NBA stands for basketball, invented by a Canadian. So if you have a problem with Toyota being in NASCAR, then maybe you should stop supporting other sports as well. There are many non-Americans playing in MLB (in fact, the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series…twice) so you better stop watching that too.

February 19, 2007 at 12:09 am
(326) cufishing says:

As with most of my generation, I have greater wants, larger needs, and better education than those before me. With all this comes a greater salary.
With my greater salary, in so much as “stuff” comes more luxurious materialistic products/goods/services. Sadly, my USA can no longer compete on the world market in the production/manufacturing industry. All those made in China labels attest to this fact. Additionally, my Hemi Charger IS NOT built here. My bride’s Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS IS NOT built here either. My stick built house was framed by Mexican migrant workers. Furthermore, the brick masons did not speak english either.

The people of this country have allowed her to stumble. Now is the time to pick up our values, realign our children, which is our last hope of American Pride, and push for our core values.

If we don’t, the fact of the matter is clear. Foreign automobiles are being built here, while American automobiles are being built outside.

So, now the question becomes: Why should Ford, Chevy and Dodge be allowed to compete in NASCAR? None of which, produce a current model on US soil!

February 19, 2007 at 12:13 am
(327) SFC.Ma70 says:

cufishing i agree with the last part you said 100%.

February 19, 2007 at 6:31 am
(328) Patricia says:

Cufishing and the other ignorants. Read this and stop making empty and false statements. Is Toyota paying you for postings?:

“Detroit’s congressional allies of GM, Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group say it’s not jealousy. They say Japanese automakers are exploiting an artificially weak yen to make their products more affordable.

U.S. Rep. Sander Levin, D-Royal Oak, said he is considering new legislation aimed at pressuring Japan and other countries to stop manipulating their currencies to boost exports.

Japanese automakers “are importing the more expensive cars to the U.S., and getting the benefit of the yen imbalance,” Levin said. Japan has “a clear-cut set of policies, and we don’t have any.”

In the briefing to other Toyota managers, Sudo cited political and social risks under the heading of “external challenge.” The report, left unsecured on computers at the company’s Georgetown, Ky., complex, said Toyota could come under fire for:

• Selling vehicles to U.S. customers with high proportions of foreign-made parts. Less than half of all content of Toyota vehicles sold in the United States is made in the United States or Canada.

• Not including enough minority-owned businesses in its supplier base. The Rev. Jesse Jackson, leader of the Rainbow PUSH activist group, has asked Toyota to improve diversity efforts.

• Leaving a vacuum in U.S. communities as GM, Ford, Chrysler and their suppliers shed plants and workers.

“A Democratic Congress, particularly those members with districts hit by Big 3 and supplier plant closings, may call for further oversight of the industry and Japanese companies in particular,” the presentation said.

Toyota’s concerns are not far off the mark. With a new Democratic majority in Congress, Michigan’s Democratic lawmakers have pledged to press harder on trade and other issues where Detroit automakers say Japanese companies have an unfair advantage.

Last week, two Democratic House members from Michigan — Levin and Rep. John Dingell of Dearborn — sent a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, urging him to press Japan over the value of the yen during a meeting of world economic powers.

Dingell, Levin and two other congressmen said in their letter to Paulson that a weak yen had helped Japanese automakers increase their imports by more than 30% in 2006. Detroit automakers and their congressional allies say the yen bestows up to a $4,000-per-vehicle benefit for Japanese automakers.”

The full article in:

February 19, 2007 at 9:32 am
(329) Dirk says:

Toyota didn’t do so good yesterday in the 500. They better have a good plan for the rest of the year if they hope to have any top 10s let alone a win. Chevrolet pretty well dominated this weekend.

February 19, 2007 at 10:31 am
(330) cufishing says:

You are bringing national politics into this discussion. Don’t go there!

My first rebuttal would include the NAFTA, which is the precursor to what other than just the Japanese are currently doing to us.

I encourage you to display your anger, but I ask that you direct that anger to the guilty.

My second refute would include the WTO, which was a product of the clinton administration, but was strongly supported by the republican congress.

Those are the culprits of your article, and those politicians are the responsible participants. Thus so, it is a plethora of international bodies who are benefiting from these two US policies, as opposed to the single issue approach from the source you cited.

If you were to mix politics within this discussion, you would be faced with a rebuttal that the NAFTA (Republican) and the WTO (Republican Supported) were passed and re-enforced with Republican efforts. Thus the ensuing battle would create a morgue effect on the Democrat politicians you have ever so pointed us to read about. Thus turning this into a political debate over why two Democratic politicians from Michigan want the Republican Treasury Secretary to investigate a Republican policy.~Lady, that’s just politics!

To answer your asked question, No. Furthermore, to answer your underlying question, registered red card holding elephant.

February 19, 2007 at 2:53 pm
(331) mike l says:

you people just dont get it? why are the big 3 laying people off, because makers like toyota sell cars so cheap anyone can afford them. then people dont want to buy American and the big 3 dont bring in any money. so to still be able to make cars they need to find cheaper places to make cars and parts for them. talk to a real uaw worker. or better yet get a job from the big 3 then you understand all of it and learn something about fair trade.

February 19, 2007 at 3:24 pm
(332) chimpmeat says:

you got to be kidding me. a series that changes the rules BETWEEN RACES! cannot be ruined by any manufacturer who wants to enter. this ‘sport’ is as corrupt as Boxing!

February 19, 2007 at 4:33 pm
(333) cufishing says:

I’ve got it! Really, I do.

Now get this. Your precious UAW is the CAUSE of this relocation. Your hated Toyota is the EFFECT!

Clearly, I do see it. Problem is, I don’t know how to fix it, swiftly and legally that is!

On a low-blow, what are your investment options within the RenCen?

February 19, 2007 at 5:34 pm
(334) Ric says:

I drive a black 2005 Honda Accord, I like to pretend it’s a black Monte Carlo. (we miss you Dale Earnhardt) I won’t buy a Chevy because GM can’t get a grip a and build a good car. I had GM’s in the past, they were always in the shop at the dealer.

However, seeing Toyoda in Nascar does hit a raw nerve.

But then again, all the cars look the same to me, There is nothing stock about the cars in Nascar today. I wish it was like the old days any fool can tell if it was a Dodge, Ford or GM.

February 19, 2007 at 6:53 pm
(335) bobby says:

omg! i’m not surprise of the ignorant stereotype hicks around. They really sound so insecure. =)

February 19, 2007 at 8:48 pm
(336) Those who Love America says:

If all you Toyota lovers would read Patricia statements and verify them you might just learn what they are doing to our auto industry. Blame it on Ford, Gm and even Chrysler. The blame lies with Americans who simply don’t care about nothing but themselves and how they look in their foreign car.

Stand up and stop complaining and help American companies and our workers. Try defending us instead of what Toyota does or doesn’t do. Now they are trying I say trying again to get more of the market share of trucks. Statistics don’t lie Ford has been the top seller for over 30 years in a role. With your help Ford,GM will go broke and who will pay in the long run. You the ones that are defending Toyota and others.

February 19, 2007 at 9:19 pm
(337) Toyota Driver says:

I am happy that Toyota got into NASCAR…just as happy as I am about my two Toyota pickups parked in my garage.

February 19, 2007 at 9:28 pm
(338) cufishing says:


You have great potential in your post. But it will mostly fall on deaf ears. Do you know why?

I did in fact read the post, the link, and the political environment in which it was focused. Those two politicians are doing exactly what they need to do to be re-elected. That are pounding their chest for their constituents. We need more like them. People who will take an oath and stand up for that oath, and do it without name calling.

I do stand up. We drive two US labeled vehicles, neither of which were built here mind you, but they are US products.

Now, you stand up the next election and vote for somebody that cares about you, the economy, and America. Or, you can continue to allow other trade agreements to be voted in, and more tariff laws to be passed, and in another thirty years, America will truly be a material society. Your call.

Like you eluded too, it is Americans that have allowed this situation, and it will only take Americans to pull us out. But, it will take a united America, and in order to create a united America, name calling will have to cease, or we won’t get anywhere!

February 19, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(339) Bla Bla Bla says:

Read what you wrote Toyota Driver and try to understand why others don’t like you

I won’t call you names

February 20, 2007 at 1:17 am
(340) bob says:

Sounds like people are scared of competition. lol If America is so macho and proud you should welcome the opportunity to fight other makes. Just show that your the best in the world. Better hope its not like in Indycars cuz Chevy was destroyed by Toyota. So what did Chevy do? Pulled out after using a Ford-Cosworth Champcar engine so they could win 2-3 races lol

February 20, 2007 at 1:56 am
(341) steve says:

i work for chrysler. mopar to be exact. across the field is a toyota parts depot. one day they took there new fj 4×4 into the sand lot between us. it got stuck asap. we offered to pull it with one of ram pu.they said no got there own pu and got stuck doing that! after work a buddy with his tj jeep went over and over the same hills that toyota coudnt make. by the way , the vast majority of the mopar parts in our warehouse are us and canadian made. i have seen very veryvery little of the parts made off shore.

February 20, 2007 at 1:59 am
(342) mike l says:

bob, no ones afraid of toyotas. look how poorly they did. and it is just excuse after excuse. cufishing, it is not the uaws fault for this. most all uaw members do what ever they can do to take out toyotas. if they dont they could lose their job. they want to keep their jobs here. its common sense, something people dont have alot of anymore.

February 20, 2007 at 2:14 am
(343) mike l says:

forgot to say, today i saw a toyota with a plow get stuck pushing back snow piles. drove by latter and saw a ford f-350 with a chain around the toyotas tow hook 20 feet away from the tundra. either it was a to powerful ford or to pus*y a toyota!!!

February 20, 2007 at 2:27 am
(344) steve says:

mike joy ,the announcer for the daytona 500, made a great excuse for toyotas involvment in nascar. he said,”its a global economy”.oh really!lets see , if a japanese wants a foreign car he/she may be subjected to a govt. tax audit.
are we truly in a global economy?trade between the usa and say, iran/iraq? ,n. korea? africa?,russia? middle east? forgedaboudit!!! what a wonderful utopian world we live in.

February 20, 2007 at 8:55 am
(345) cufishing says:

Yes sir, we are in a global economy. The company I work for has corporate deals in over 150 countries, has employess that speak 23 different languages, and close to 75Mil people support our product.

Furthermore, joining this debat has allowed for a far more clearer vision than I held previosly.

I’m in the need for a new car. My dodge charger is going on the market today.
Whilst reseraching Steve’s global post, I thought it of interest to observe the NYSE. Low and behold, Daimler Chrysler IS NOT on the US market of the NYSE. It is only listed under global!

Tis a sad day for US automakers again.

February 20, 2007 at 5:11 pm
(346) Rob says:

LOL, I can’t wait until all you racist rednecks leave the sport. Toyota is a good thing for NASCAR because it would clear out all the KKK fans and bring in a new, more diverse fan base.

LOL@you crying toothless hayseeds. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!


February 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm
(347) mike l says:

rob, clearly you are a hick, kkk and racist your self because your opinion is just the oppisite of ours. you are standing up for what you belive in. thats what we are doing but for the other side. it goes both ways remember.

February 20, 2007 at 8:07 pm
(348) Rob says:

mike l, you obviously didn’t get past the first grade to know what a racist or even a redneck is. you also can’t even spell the word “oppisite” either.

it’s uneducated, ignorant hicks like you who give NASCAR a bad name.

Just remember you racist kkk members, Toyota just the beginning for NASCAR.

This should push you to ROOT even harder for the American carts. It should make this sport all the more exciting.

have fun haters!

February 20, 2007 at 8:10 pm
(349) Kevin says:

This is America people. There is something called freedom which allows for other nations to compete in a sport such as NASCAR.

The “NATIONAL” IN NASCAR is like the “NATIONAL” in the NBA.

Both leagues are indeed national BUT it’s the American way to provide freedom for international athletes to compete in both sports.

February 20, 2007 at 9:12 pm
(350) Patricia says:

ignorant #403 ROB:
Who are you to make fun of Mike I because of a typo? Your stupid comment is full of grammatical mistakes. My eight-year old can write better. I can write better, and English is not my first language. In the future, ignorant Rob, do not make fun of others considering that you write like a second grader.
This is what you write (corrections):
mike l, you obviously didn’t get past the first grade to know what a racist or even a redneck is. (You) you also can’t even spell the word “oppisite” either.

(It’s)it’s uneducated, ignorant hicks like you who give NASCAR a bad name.

Just remember (Just remember,you racist KKK members),you racist kkk members, (that) Toyota (is) just the beginning for NASCAR. (I think that you mean that Toyota joining NASCAR is just the beginning. You write so poorly that it is hard to decipher…)

This should push you to ROOT even harder for the American (cars? or were you trying to be funny hahaha?) carts. It should make this sport all the more exciting.

(Have fun, haters!)have fun haters! ”

Go back to school, stupid ROB

February 20, 2007 at 10:02 pm
(351) cufishing says:

Clearly you must feel better now that you have displayed your neanderthalistic views for all of the inter-net world to read.

That much power clearly makes your bowels tighten does it not?

However, that energy and power needs to be focused, it needs to be channelized, placed into a narrow segment of society. A place where you can really gain substantial identification, and be known for who Rob really is, and not just Rob the poster.

Besides, who really reads a full post that is blasted, as if from a shotgun, at a general audience. You need a target, man, a real point target. A small group of people who can really ‘feel’ the effect of Rob’s tongue. One in which that can be able to understand Rob’s views, not a group where the intended target may never see it again. Let us know your real feelings man, I have a few connections, maybe we can get you that target.

Some people just don’t understand you man, but try as they might, they just can’t comprehend your thought patterns. When that happens, they fall back to a “name calling” stage, or a *feeding* stage.

However, I find ~starvation~ is the best way to handle it.

February 20, 2007 at 10:13 pm
(352) mike l says:

thanks Patricia, i guess only the “smart ones” like rob can make mistakes. and rob, you really are ignorant. i wont have to root for American “carts” because i am not a fan of cart racing. but i was a fan of nascar and we are not afraid of toyotas. i mean, look how bad they did. and dont say its because their new. they shouldnt race if they are not ready!!! you dont eat if you arent hungry.

February 20, 2007 at 10:44 pm
(353) mike l says:

a.nichols, what 3-3.5 liter naturaly aspirated engine makes 600 HP. and my dads 350 camaro had 257 thousand before the cam broke in two. later found sand holes between the lobes. faulty casting or Q.C. only changed plugs and oil regularly. no bearings, valves, gaskets, rings, rods or anything. and all mechanics have their own expert opinion, it differs from person to person. some people like power over mph. are you really an ASE certified mechanic, my father is one and he sees more hondas in the shop.

February 21, 2007 at 12:18 am
(354) steve says:

@cufishing, your right i believe dcx is listed as an global/international company. i think the point im trying to make is everyone in north america has almost a free choice in any purchases they make. but i dont think that applies to every other country around the world.

February 21, 2007 at 12:37 am
(355) dead head says:

steve,cufishing; posibly the same person.

February 21, 2007 at 1:59 am
(356) dead head says:

that does not make any sense at all. are you for or against toyota man. crack is bad news man, stay away from crap.

February 21, 2007 at 9:25 am
(357) cufishing says:

@dead head.
Uhm, no! Thou I’m fully aware of my surroundings, and understand my condition of hypomania, I am not multi. Nor am I capable of posting under the pretense of another, this would not create unity within my hypomaniacs reality.

However, I find it intriguing that there might be an association of my views correlated to those of another. This makes for an excellent comparison for evaluative practices that we are truly not single in mind, thought and soul.

Moreover, my name is Charles eUgene Fish.

February 21, 2007 at 9:34 am
(358) cufishing says:

Nice post! With such an excellent opening, I was hard pressed to make it to the first sentence. Did you have anything intellectually pleasing to say after the fourth word? Honestly, that is as far as I got!

There is a hidden rule, when an opening is so intense, such as yours, the “i” rule kicks in hard.

Are you familiar with the “i” rule?

February 21, 2007 at 10:30 am
(359) mike l says:

hapasc, once again its about toyotas in nascar. not dogde and skin color. at least dodge was at one point all American. you sound like you are one to call names as well. cuflushing, where do you stand on the topic of toyotas in nascar. you jump all over the place and never clearly say which side you defend.

February 21, 2007 at 9:40 pm
(360) mike l says:

must of scared off everyone with the truth.

February 21, 2007 at 9:44 pm
(361) yikes says:

this is pretty sad.

February 22, 2007 at 6:44 am
(362) Patricia says:

The beginning of the end for Toyota?
Did you guys hear that Toyota’s Tundra ads are being booed by the hockey fans every time the ads come up on the screen? Could it be that it took massive lay-offs and Nascar to wake up some to the reality that we need to stop Toyota?
And for those ignorants on this website who say that Nascar is for KKK and hicks –then why do you visit this site??–, my question is: how about hockey? Do you consider it a game for KKKs and hicks as well? I went to a Devils game and all were from my area: North Jersey. No KKK chapters here.
“Sludge” Toyota will suffer. I predict a backslash.

February 22, 2007 at 9:34 am
(363) cufishing says:

I find it interesting that you support the Devils, Democratic politicians from Michigan, and NASCAR. Then you ponder why others of which you pointed out would visit this web site, and then place a fallacy of said others towards the end of your post.

I have no real geography of NJ, and I have no idea where your regional boundaries start and end.

However, I do know this. There is a small operational KKK chapter in Millville, NJ.
Additionally, there is a “Knights” KKK chapter in Trenton, NJ.

This post is a minute sampling of a study I participated in back in school. The content of that study theorized that people would willingly alter reality to support their vision rather than presenting factual information that may not, or rather thought not to be known by others who might come along and contest the validity of said information.

I must ask you then, do you think all NASCAR fans, people who support your postings here, and those that might gain your visionary insight form your post have an obtuse view of NASCAR, and more so American Pride?

February 22, 2007 at 10:09 am
(364) Patricia says:

You are making many assumptions here. I said: “I went to a Devils game”. You assume that I support the Devils.
You assume that I support the Democratic politicians from Michigan. I am a Republican. However, I support any politician who protects the AMERICAN auto industry.
What fallacy are you talking about? Be specific.
Read my post carefully: I said NORTH Jersey.

I think that all comes down to poor assumptions and generalizations. If you like NASCAR you must be KKK and a hick. Wrong!!!
As for your questions on patriotism:
Love for your country is a very personal thing. I love my adopted country USA. How do you show love for your country? In many ways and degrees: serving in the military, being a good citizen, being charitable with your fellow Americans, being respectful to the flag, SUPPORTING YOUR OWN INDUSTRY AND ECONOMY, etc., etc. These are some of the ways to show your love for your country.
I believe in economic freedom but the name of the game should be fairness.
By the way, to some ignorant who said the Scion cars are made in the USA:
From Karl, Chief Editor of Edmunds.com

“I recently glanced through a NHTSA document that tracks the percentage of U.S./Canadian (versus “foreign”) content in new car models. It’s actually a fascinating snapshot of where our cars come from, and despite thinking I had a strong sense of which models are built where there were several that caught me off gaurd. For instance, there’s not a single model on the list that is “100%” U.S./Canadian sourced, but the Ford Econoline van comes closest at 95% (the Impala, Monte Carlo and Grand Prix come in a close second at 92%). Chrysler’s highest percentage vehicle is the Viper, at 85%.

At the opposite end you have expected vehicles like the Honda Inisght, Toyota Prius and every Ferrari and Scion model (all at 0%). Every Mercedes-Benz model is also at 0% except the M- and R-Classes (62%). But some other ones surprised me, like the Honda S2000, Mazda Miata, Nissan 350Z and Subaru Forester (0%). “

February 22, 2007 at 11:49 am
(365) cufishing says:

Yes, you said you went to a “Devils” game, and I said you support the “Devils”. Unless you won the tickets through lottery, work achievements, or some other form you spent money on these tickets? Therefore, you supported the team that night by purchasing a ticket to watch their game. Maybe you even purchased a beverage, and a snack? All of which supports the “Devils”.

You posted an excellent political debate on two Democratic politicians from Michigan. You say you are a Republican. You then say that you support any politician who supports your views. That is an excellent use of your rights and you should support any politician that shares your views, irregardless of their affiliation! However, the key word being “SUPPORT”! There is nothing wrong with being a “centrist”.

You say to read your post carefully. I did. I also pointed out my lack of NJ geography and regions by purposely alienating that sentence within the post. Furthermore, after conducting a moment of research, I informed you of two triple K chapters in NJ. Again, I don’t know the regions, but Trenton, appears to be north of center within the state.

I never questioned anybody’s patriotism!

Furthermore, by calling people “ignorant” must really be a personal thing to you. It is quite apparent that you are incapable of allowing others to be capable of critical and intellectual thinking on views other than those you support. This will get you nowhere really, however, it does provide food for the opposition, and meals for “trolls”.

Again you have posted another excellent article within your #422 post.

February 22, 2007 at 12:17 pm
(366) steve says:

chrysler at one time owned lambourghini.did that make lambo an american co.? ford owns jaguar and volvo;are they american? chrysler as part of dcx still designs engineers,test,and builds vehicles in north america.the problem ,if you want to call it one is the out sourcing.unfortunatly its just a part of the race to the bottom.i say northamerica markets are for the most part open to the world.let some of those markets ,japan and china for example,be open to the products built in the americas particularily cars.

February 22, 2007 at 12:40 pm
(367) Patricia says:

#425 You are bringing up the one-million-dollar question. I guess you can use few rules of thumb when it comes to it:
1. Where is the company’s headquarter?
2. After expenses, where do the profits go?
3. What culture governs all -or most- of upper-management?
4. Where did the company start and grow before becoming multinational?
Now, plug-in the company’s name and see the answer.
As an example, let’s use Toyota:
1. Japan
2. Japan
3. Japanese
4. Japan

With some companies, the answers vary and it’s hard to come up with a definite answer. Let’s look at Chrysler:
1. USA and… Germany?
2. USA and… Germany?
3. Germany and… USA?
4. USA

I guess you could say that Chrysler is a hybrid. That is why many talk about the Big 2.5 instead of 3.0.

The whole argument about what car companies are American or not, makes me think about China. GM is growing exponentially there. By some of the people in this site, that’d make GM a Chinese company? Never!! It will be an American company with much investment in China.
Toyota is and always will be Japanese.

February 22, 2007 at 11:22 pm
(368) Bill says:

Toyota is the 4th largest automaker in the US, what’s wrong with competition, afraid your old school american cars can’t keep up with modern technology?

February 23, 2007 at 10:49 am
(369) cufishing says:

Currently Lamborghini is owned by VAG (Volkswagen AG) and like the other high-end, specialty, and niche market automobiles under that roof, does not appear to be in any danger.

However you touched onto something that needs to be addressed, but first let us review post #50. This is the precursor to what you touched, that poster claims he “worked at a scrap yard in Louisville” and he can say “that Lexus is made from scrap”. Nobody took that for what he said, only pounded their obtuse chest for American Pride. What we need to understand is this: Other business opportunities are doing just that. Gladly taking “OUR” trash, and our other earthly materialistic environmentally un-friendly crap, and selling it back to us as products. Two sides to this:
1. We need to learn how to recycle more, better, and cost effectively.
2. The quality of the material we make products from can go further, and in so much as become another product before its end life. Clearly, the quality of material is their, so why do we throw it away?

We constantly attack anything Japanese, but yet are quite as a bug in a rug when it comes to others. I say to all people here, take your blinders off. The Europeans entered NASCAR, and nobody batted an eye. But jeez, Toyota enters, and it’s doomsday! Wrong! Doomsday made its appearance ahead of schedule, way before Toyota!

Look East people. The Europeans have devastated the USD on the world market with their united EU, and combined currency, “Euro”. Daimler took advantage of a liked product, and turned it into a superior global sales strategy. Then they were faced with quality issues, and removed the term “Ami-shize” (slang for American shit, -early transactions of the Chrysler mini-van and Jeep products) from the European market completely by purchasing the entire lock-stock and exhaust of the company. Which by the way, they do not trade on the US side of the NYSE! They now own the plants and operations of the North American continent, and have cars in NASCAR. They only build here what sells here. They still have an entire division in Europe that caters only to Europe! They *gasp* have entered the Asian market very successfully as well.

Enter the World market. Toyota builds cars here in KY, USA. Toyota USA *IS* traded on the US side of the NYSE! Toyota *contributes* to US based charities. Does that make Toyota a good product? I don’t own one, so can’t answer. It does however, make them a good team player!

We bitch and moan about world politics, but who do we vote into office? People say the UAW is not at fault, but yet they spend millions USD annually courting politicians! A practice Toyota does not indulge in. Possibly why their product might be a few dollars cheaper? Those millions could be going back to the company, economy, and workers, kind of like the hated Toyota. But hey, too each their own!

We beat our chests about the Asian market, and gaining entrance. Again, look to the East. The Europeans have entered the Asian market, and have been very successful, almost 40% to be exact. But hey, we don’t worry about them, what could they possibly do?
H-D has also entered the Asian market; they sell almost 22% over Honda in their native Japanese homeland! But people here beat their obtuse American Pride chest, and live on. What would it take to enter that market? Simply picking up an Asian marketing strategy guide from one of the already successful companies that are there and employing it.

People, either take off your blinders, or dig a hole in the sand and bury your head in it. Because like Steve #424 eluded to: We are winning the “race to the bottom”, and we don’t even have a Pit Stall!

In NASCAR conclusion:
Ford = Built/Assembled outside USA.
Chevy = Built/Assembled outside USA.
Dodge = Owned/Built/Assembled outside USA.
Toyota USA = Built/Assembled inside USA, owned outside.

February 23, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(370) mike l says:

cufishing and others, you dont know what uaw is. they are there to protect workers rights. they also are againsts unfair forgien trade. if they liked toyotas they would shut down us plants by supporting them. my mother worked at American Axle (GM,Chevy) for 30 years. while i didnt, ive heard more truth from her and therefor i am more educated in that subject then yous who have office jobs. why do you care? you probly dont but i have knowledge to back up my statements.

February 23, 2007 at 10:34 pm
(371) cufishing says:

I know *enough* about the UAW from reading their own published literature. I know how much $$$USD$$$ they throw away courting favorable politicians.

I know that I do not stand a snowball chance in hell in converting a single person here about the practices of the UAW.

I care, because we are all in this together. We are all going to see the end result within most of our lifetimes!

It hurts me when I drive by Richard’s house in the morning. Richard served in the military. Richard has “Support Our Troops” on yard signs in his front yard. Richard had a flag pole installed, and flies his US Flag daily. Richard has a Toyota P/U for hauling occasions, a Lexus SUV for commuting to and from work, a Infinity for his wife to shop in, and a BMW for his still at home daughter.

February 23, 2007 at 11:10 pm
(372) mike l says:

where do you stand in the issue of toyota in nascar? you have not made it clear. and they use their money to keep the us auto maker running. anything else you “know” about the uaw.

February 24, 2007 at 12:14 am
(373) steve says:

first of all i want to thank patrica for her insightful comments.i also have to acknowledge both bill and cufishing for there points,some of which i probably grudingly agree with.today i stood back and thought why i hate toyota in nascar or whatever.i dont hate the japanese,if that was the case then i would probably hate americans because i dont like chevy either!(sorry mike1).but where maybe bothmike1 and myself agree on is toyota has no performance street credibility.the domestics have built this over decades either voluntarily or forced by the racing assoc.(nascar,nhra,etc.)to me ,even hondas with mufflers thatsound like a long loud fart has more street cred than toyota. and as far as quality is concerned the differnces are now razor thin from top to bottom. no one can afford to build a total piece of garbage anymore.(ps mike1, i like fords and mopars so i have to hate chevys)

February 24, 2007 at 11:29 am
(374) Patricia says:

#433 Steve: You are welcome. Thanks for your kind remark.
#428 Bill:
Where can I start??
First of all, I find it amazing when someone calls himself “well educated” and writes a poorly-written message.
You say that “you don’t give a shit about the prejudices still held against the Japs”. Again, self-proclaimed well-educated person, you are showing your ignorance. “Japs” is considered a derogatory name used by those who have prejudism against Japanese.
As for your loooooove for Japanese cars because of your own experiences, maybe you should not generalize here. You and your family may have had good experiences with the cars but Japanese quality is not what it used to be.

“(…) a growing number of Japanese manufacturers are running into quality troubles. Last year, Matsushita, maker of Panasonic products and one of the largest Japanese electronic companies, recalled kerosene heaters after several cases of carbon monoxide poisoning. Two years ago, Mitsubishi Motors almost went bankrupt after confessing that it had routinely covered up vehicle defects in the 1990s.

Toyota’s troubles became national news in July, when police accused three executives at the automaker of covering up vehicle defects over an eight-year period. The criminal charges highlighted the soaring number of recalls in recent years by Toyota, a company whose reputation for flawless craftsmanship had made it the topic of countless books and business school seminars. In June, a J.D. Power survey of American owners of new cars ranked Hyundai Motors of South Korea above Toyota for the first time”

Good luck with your Honday Odyssey. Be careful with the transmission. Oh yeah, read on honey

February 24, 2007 at 5:03 pm
(375) IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU says:

cufishing is so full of crap and excuses, keep buying Toyota’s and one day your job will leave too


February 24, 2007 at 7:04 pm
(376) cufishing says:

I don’t own a Toyota! I don’t own Toyota stock! And I have no need to buy a Toyota!

Tell your over inflated fraudulent stories elsewhere, or at least attempt to back them up with factual evidence. However, in this case, you will fail to effectively produce anything close to your assumptions.

I lay out factual / researchable / validateable data. If you chose to call it crap, then you must live in a crappy society!

My job is not reliant on the domestic volume of sales. However, I buy domestic automobiles to keep my fellow Americans at work! When the day comes that a foreign body enters my field, we have lost more than just a little business in the auto industry!

However, you have one minute point correct.

February 24, 2007 at 8:38 pm
(377) cufishing says:

How receptive is the slice and sell Daimler / Chrysler news?

Can you elaborate on some of the courses of actions the company might pursue?

Additionally, if “Magna” cannot secure the financial requirements, *AND* it goes on the world market; China appears to be financially prepared to negotiate a deal, what COA would that place the US in?

February 24, 2007 at 10:19 pm
(378) mike l says:

cufishing, where do you stand on the issue of toyota in nascar

February 24, 2007 at 10:29 pm
(379) steve says:

at the moment they are selling the
business turn around plan,but everything is on the table.we have read and heard things from gm ,cherry(china),magna buying chrysler.we’ve also heard of mergers/associations with ford or renault/nissan. the truth is no one really knows.my personal opinion is chrysler will remain part of dcx.we suffered a huge 3rd quarter loss in 06 but till then our momentum was good and its still good. but mercedes is going thru its own quality issues at the moment and they have pointed the finger at chrysler by saying weve damaged there reputation.right now its all about products and productivity/efficiencies.if the turn around doesnt work i can see the president of chrysler gone and the previous man,who has left vw coming back.i will say this he was a man of action and a definate car guy.we also have new assocations with gm andbmw together in developing “green” powertrains. i could go on.i will say this though, im only a worker on the floor but im proud of our products,especially the mopar performance parts and vehicles.

February 25, 2007 at 12:07 am
(380) Horndogg says:

There is no such thing as “NASCAR as American Tradition” as previously posted… Trace your history you dumb rednecks… “americans” are mixtures of europeans who left Europe… So NASCAR should be European…LOL!

February 25, 2007 at 12:54 am
(381) cufishing says:

As you can tell from this entire thread people have mixed emotions about this very question you pose of me. Some here are clearly explicit in their abhorrence of a car brand, or more so, the human genome system that manufactures that brand.

I am of the type that savors history, for does history not repeat itself?

Enter NASCAR evolution: Al Keller in a Jaguar, won at Linden, New Jersey, on June 13, 1954. Other vehicles of interest for that day included; Austin-Healey, MG, Porsche and Morgan.

How about The International 200 at Langhorne, Pennsylvania, June of 1953? There were Jaguars, Porsches, Volkswagens and Aston Martins in the line-up.

Then there was Parnelli Jones in a Ford getting beat by a pair of Citroens
in the 1958 Crown America 500 in Riverside, California. The Renaults however, did not fair to well.

Just a short stroll down memory lane produces a sport in which has a very diverse history, with a very devout following. To me these are significant events, however, to others whom may not be purist will find it a bit trifle, if not an untruism.

Toyota entered other US motorsport events and have done well in the events, and have brought new marketing and business strategies into the mix. The off-road and stadium series to clarify.

I do not know when Toyota entered the defunct “Goody’s” series, or the truck series. Not my following.

However, I do know it was Melbourne, Australia 2002 when Toyota made it’s loathsome debut on the F1 circuit. Furthermore, in about 20 days, Toyota will embark on it’s six season beginning with the Melbourne. To date, they have 0 titles, 0 victories, and IIRC 1 second place finish! That is not exactly phenomenal performance where team budgets are counted in hundreds of millions USD!

In NASCAR conclusion;
Ford = Built/Assembled outsourcing to foreign soil.
Chevy = Build / Assembly outsourced to foreign soil.
Dodge = Owned/Built/Assembled outside the USA.
Toyota = Built/Assembled on US soil, owned outside.

February 25, 2007 at 11:05 am
(382) Sir Irony says:

Chevys made in Japan?
In a recent NY Times article about moving the operations of the Rolling Rock brewery from Latrobe, PA, to Newark, NJ, one Latrobe resident remarked, “No offense to New Jersey, but I didn’t think it had any mountain springs… and moving it someplace else is like hearing that Chevys will now be made in Japan.”

Actually, the Chevrolet LUV pickup was built in Japan by Isuzu and sold in Chevy dealerships from 1972 to 1980. Curious name for a truck, though. “LUV” actually was an acronym for “Light Utility Vehicle.”

Think we’re making this up? GM documents its “capital alliance” with Isuzu beginning in 1971.

How much did people love their LUVs? Found a few on eBay selling between $1,500 and $3,500.

Chevrolet also sold the Sprint, a very small three-cylinder economy car. Originally introduced in 1984, the Sprint was imported from Suzuki in Japan.

Also to be found on Chevy showroom floors in the 1980s was the Spectrum, a larger subcompact, imported from Isuzu in Japan.

And who can forget Geo, GM’s attempt to start a small-car brand from 1990-1997? Offerings included the diminutive Metro (built by Suzuki); the Prizm (based on a Toyota Corolla); the Storm (an Isuzu product), and the Tracker (small Suzuki SUV).

“Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet” went the advertising jingle. They left out “sumo wrestling, sushi, sake, Isuzu, and Suzuki.”

–Mike Quincy

February 25, 2007 at 11:40 am
(383) TruckerTom says:

FORD Cuautitlan Assembly

Cuautitlan (Mexico)
Products: Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and F-450 trucks, Fiesta and IKON
Year opened: 1970
Plant size (sq ft): 2,034,369

Atleast I know the 2007 Tundra was developed and manufactured in the USA.

February 25, 2007 at 2:48 pm
(384) mike l says:

sir irony, i read that last night. notice how unpopular they where. the where mistakes and everyone knew that, therefore the didnt last. people want there cars to stay American. cu, do you like nascar? if you do then you proved alot of people wrong. you dont sound like an inbred hick to me, while i dont agree with all you points, it would make some angry if you are a fan. trucker tom, how long have them tundras been around? have they proven themselves tough like ford, chevy and dodge have? dont think so.

February 25, 2007 at 5:45 pm
(385) James says:

I just sold my last piece of Dale collectables on Ebay. After 40 years of watching, enjoying and collecting everything “NASCAR” I am officialy done with it all. I saw this coming in 2000. The goal of NASCAR is to become a multinational racing program like all the other racing leagues. They had to break the BUBBA connection. So first they changed the scoring. Then they slid Toyota into the trucks in 2002. Now we have camry’s in Daytona. Im done,
you can call me whatever you want. All I see is the tradition and history of what NASCAR used to be being thrown to the wind. The billionaires needed a few more million from Toyota i guess. But I still control my money and will actively boycot any sponser of Toyota teams and say to all who feel like I do to do the same. Money “is” what this is all about in the end. All true NASCAR fans should stop spending a dime on all things connected to it. From Red Bull to Nextel, Napa to 3M. I have my own company and have already stopped using 18 products because of their connections and don’t allow my employees to stay at Best Westerns anymore. The owners and drivers who had no problem taking their 20 gold pieces from toyota should be ridiculed and banned. Dale and all the other legends I use to watch from the top of my uncle’s RV in the infield of Daytona are turning over in their graves. I give a final salute to the late, great NASCAR. May she rest in peace and to the new NASCAR may you rot in hell.

February 25, 2007 at 8:19 pm
(386) mike l says:

well put james

February 25, 2007 at 9:17 pm
(387) Horndogg says:

James and Mike… you are racists! i bet you are both fat and ugly… James, you said you own a company? i hope your company dies down! what wrong having toyota in NASCAR? american tradition?… Read my previous post. tsk tsk!

February 25, 2007 at 9:18 pm
(388) cufishing says:

Condolences on your collectibles loss. That must have been some turmoil of a decision process!

Additionally, have you sent written correspondence to both the CRM and HRM departments of the business units you cut lose? I would, and IMHO so should anybody else that has the same indignant feeling on this issue. Let the corporate guys of those business’ understand your feelings, and why they have lost you as a business partner. As the old saying goes, “United we Stand”, “Divided we Fall”. Encourage those around you to do the same.

February 25, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(389) mike l says:

horndogg, read my posts. they start at 184. then thik again about who you are talking to. get it through your head nunb nuts, we live in AMERICA!!! not europe. remember, i lost alot for your right to say that. and i can hold that against you because it must be more than you ever did!!! by the way, you type like your a redneck hick.

February 26, 2007 at 12:37 am
(390) James says:

American traditions are an endangered species from what I see in modern culture. Corndogg needs to move out of mom and daddys house, stop playing war craft for at least 2 hours a day and get a job. I am not blind to the fact that foreign products are all over my house and car. I just would like to have some things that are for us americans alone. You can have a different opinion, but don’t think it’s racist. You and the rest of the pepsi generation can have it. It was already a mere shadow of what it began as anyways. To Mike, I have really begun to enjoy the local tracks as a replacment for N*****. You should try it if there are any tracks near you. It was very hard to sell all my stuff cufishing, but I could not support the industry that collectables has become anymore.

February 26, 2007 at 1:23 am
(391) Sir Irony says:

Dodge fan boys get your barf bags ready. Ford…Taylor Hick is not going to save you, you’re next.

- Since 1998 Dodge, Chrysler And Jeep Brands Are Fully Owned And Operated By Daimler-Benz (Mercedes-Benz), A completely German company – American stockholders were led to believe it was going to be a merger of equals but turned out to be a be a complete takeover. The Daimler-Benz CEO Jürgen E. Schrempp had knowingly and even admittedly misled American consumers, investors and shareholders. High ranking executives at Chrysler are now German after American executives were let go or pressured to leave. The problem is that Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep brands have received very little to no substantial quality improvements contrary to DaimlerChrysler claims of lending German Quality to Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep vehicles with tremendous quality gains, which would indicate an obvious marketing scam to try and rebuild consumer / “your” confidence.

Here is the link if you want the whoel truth: http://daimlerchryslervehicleproblems.com/

Should we say Dodge is ruining NASCAR also? It’s own and operated by Germans isn’t it?

February 26, 2007 at 3:15 am
(392) mike l says:

james, i used to race real stock cars at one of the 4 local tracks when i was 16 till i was 19. all within 20 miles. really was a lot better to be the driver then fan. but between the heats and features i really enjoyed the open wheel racing. when i am done with the marines i hope to race again and then someday get all my kids into it. at the track i like better they only let the big 3 race. but on the hang over 150(january1st) they let all compete, but only one forgien car won and it was a all wheel drive

February 26, 2007 at 3:27 am
(393) Horndogg says:

“American traditions are an endangered species from what I see in modern culture” …james, you’re not reading… are you familiar with the american history? there is no such thing as original american history…Mike, i know you are living in america. but originally where are your ancestors came from?… you’re not ok with toyota joining the nascar, the “american indians” are not ok you taking their lands and making it your own, and iraqis are thinking the same way. come on! why not have an open mind… toyota joining the nascar will invite more fans even though NASCAR drivers just loves going around in a big circle. What’s the thrill in that? what if the Japanese opposes you joining drifting competitions. also basketball, it was invented by a canadian right? how come you are playing it? people who are opposed of Toyota joining the NASCAR are like chickens, you are afraid of being beaten by a stranger at your own game. Think of it as a challenge, so that your low quality American brands improve on the game.

February 26, 2007 at 3:45 am
(394) Sir Irony says:

425: Patricia

To salvage any American pride left in what Daimler did to Chrysler, which was a complete take over, and try to call it a hybrid is a joke. Get off your double standard and get the facts straight. Dodge is a Division of Daimler-Chrysler now and the parent company is in Germany. If Germany controls what Dodge does. If you need consoling, you can get it from Dr. Z

February 26, 2007 at 3:50 am
(395) Sir Irony says:


425: Patricia

To salvage any American pride left in what Daimler did to Chrysler, which was a complete take over, and try to call it a hybrid is a joke. Get off your double standard and get the facts straight. Dodge is a Division of Daimler-Chrysler now and the parent company is in Germany. Germany controls what Dodge does. If Daimler says No, then its “NO” for Chrysler. You can now all that Hemi a Himmler.

If you need consoling, you can get it from Dr. Z

February 26, 2007 at 3:52 am
(396) Sir Irony says:


425: Patricia

To salvage any American pride left in what Daimler did to Chrysler, which was a complete take over, and try to call it a hybrid is a joke. Get off your double standard and get the facts straight. Dodge is now a Division of Daimler-Chrysler and the parent company is in Germany. Germany controls what Dodge does. If Daimler says No, then it is “NO” for Chrysler. You can now call that Hemi a Himmler.

If you need consoling, you can get it from Dr. Z.

February 26, 2007 at 4:07 am
(397) TruckerTom says:

Sir Irony, go easy on the postings. We’ll see what the parent Company Daimler does with the struggling Chrysler lines. You do have a point in saying that this is not a hybrid, but a 1 way owner ship by the German company. That’s truly what it is since all this bad news is about what Dieter Zetsche (Dr. Z haha) will do with the company.

A few things to look out for; the major job cuts can only mean that Daimler is trying to restructure the Chrysler lines. There are also talks that GM is interested in purchasing Chrysler, but who knows what will happen there. Another option is for Daimler to just drop the Chrysler and this may eventually kill the Chrysler divisions of Daimler.

February 26, 2007 at 8:51 am
(398) James says:

The world is going to hell in a handbasket because of goose steppers like you truth. Put down the ipod and turn off fox news. Old time N***** lovers like me will never except toyota, ever. As for baseball, i haven’t watched a game since the greedy bastards cancled the world series.

February 26, 2007 at 8:56 am
(399) James says:

thank god I will be gone by the time you Geo goosesteppers run/ruin this world. Old time N***** fans will never except toyota, ever. As for baseball, I haven’t watched a game since the world series was cancled for greed.

February 26, 2007 at 11:08 am
(400) fan says:

Sadly, there’s no such thing as an American car anymore, and there hasn’t been for some time now. Do your homework people. ALL automobiles are mostly made overseas. Some are just “assembled” in the US.

I’m a die-hard American Musle car fan and the thought of Toys in NASCAR makes me queasy, but the truth is, they’ll probalby do well. So, get used to it.

February 26, 2007 at 12:31 pm
(401) mike l says:

looks like they are doing real well, fan! you arent a muscle car fan because only a fake fan would welcome toyotas with out any problems and open arms. and the American cars are as usual kickingass and always will. you got any real muscle cars. i own 3, 67 chevelle, 69 camaro and 74 camino. and i consider my 04 silverado 3500 a muscle truck, them little men must get embarrassed when i roll up next to toyotas and look down on them from 4 feet in the air with my turbo diesel roaring!!! man do they get red!!!

February 26, 2007 at 7:21 pm
(402) Jay Tashimi says:


Racing is for competition. More competitors (Toyota) create more competition. What are you afraid of? I’m sorry that “jap” cars are better engineered, more reliable, and gaining in popularity. Because of your fears that (GOD FORBID) Toyota will win a race, you don’t need to say stuff that doesn’t make any sense.

February 26, 2007 at 8:12 pm
(403) mike l says:

jay jap, them toyotas dont look like they are gonna win unless they cheat again. and not all fans or ex fans are red necks, if they are then you are one to. and if you dont like nascar(probly coming in next post) you shouldnt be on this site. its for competition among American cars. toyotas dont compete, they lose.

February 26, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(404) Sir Irony says:

You forgot to mention German cars too. Get over it Dodge fans, Daimler screwed you over. Its no a hybrid or 50/50 merger, it was a complete “burn the village, kill the men, and rape the women” take over. There is nothing left from Dodge that smells like American. It smells like bad German sour krout. You can call that Hemi a Himmler now. Dr. Z can suck on this American Patriot missile.

February 26, 2007 at 10:07 pm
(405) Scapegoat says:

I own both an American and a Japanese vehicle and they’ve both had there share of problems.

I can certainly understand wanting to keep the sport all-American, as it is an American tradition with a lot of national pride. Before reading all these silly posts (ok, not all but most are the same), I would’ve voted to keep it American too. Now I welcome Toyota just to spark all of the silly, bigotted controversy with plenty of name calling from its ‘fans’. It works both ways: there were plenty of stupid responses for the “inport” lovers as well. Competition forces companies to make their respective products better. hmmmm Capitalism…Competition…. A-m-e-r-i-c-a-n

February 26, 2007 at 10:57 pm
(406) mike l says:

craftsman chainsaw, polaris quad, 76, 07 polaris snowmobile, had a 76 harley, no American tv makers so cant help that. nor computer makers. and why are there no American makers of consumer electronics? japan and china knocked out all of them. read and you will learn. you must be 10 or something if you want to cause more problems. grow up and you will see whats wrong with all this. by the way, if an American company made electronics, i would by them to support my country, though i am in the marines.

February 26, 2007 at 11:38 pm
(407) Scapegoat says:

Yes, Mike, I am 10 and I own two cars – I think you missed my point. That’s great that you support our country and that you’re a Marine. Sincerely. If it weren’t for people like you, none of us would be able to express our opinions and argue about car racing. I’ve been to China and frankly, I like it here.

Maybe you’re on your way to making a good point. Where’s all that stuff made? Who makes that Craftsman? Sears doesn’t make squat. It’s a rebadged version of something. What happened to your Harley?

“japan and china knocked out all of them”

February 26, 2007 at 11:42 pm
(408) Scapegoat says:

and we’re the helpless victim, I see…we’re no match for Japanese and Chinese competition. Why don’t American companies make electronics? We invented the technologies, what happened?
What I’m I supposed to read to help me understand?

February 27, 2007 at 12:10 am
(409) mike l says:

dumped my harley when i was drunk and sold it, little wake up call that turned my life around. bicentennial edition. and all i know is if i buy sears craftsman i support an American company. but is says made in usa of mostly us parts. and i know my quad is made of alot of forgien parts but it was assembled i the us. on my 76 polaris the only forgien parts it has is the mikuni fuel pump and carb. my 07 is as American as my quad but its alot better then a yamaha.

February 27, 2007 at 3:51 am
(410) steve says:

ive been checking out these posts now for a couple of weeks and by far the most vindictive comments are coming from the pro toyota in nascar crowd.the way i see it is if you havejust become a fan in the last 5 years or so your probably for toyota in nascar.those of us who have paid attention to it over alonger period hate toyota.reason is weve seen the changes where a stock car looked like something that might resemble what you drive.i owned two fairlane cobras.they looked like the cars raced between 1968-71.when ford used the tauras i started to get turned off.when cars went all aeroblob looking that turned me off.when nascar was looking for more parity-that turned me off.now toyotas in – ive had enough

February 27, 2007 at 12:14 pm
(411) cufishing says:

When you ask “if i’m a fan”:
Do you mean;
Story swapping on the infield over a cold one on race weekend? No.

Partying most of the night away before the big event? No.

Traveling countless hours to make an event? No.

Or, do you mean:
Running the NASCAR driver pool at work? Yes.
Having a working knowledge of NASCAR; history, families thereof, legends thereof, and their charities? Yes.

Can correlate most of the current drivers to their number, car type, team, and major sponsor ((minus) Toyotas), Excluding “Mikey”, “Darrel”, and the crash inducing “Cat & Dominoes”? Yes.

Have a working knowledge of NASCAR evolution, “Strictly Stock”/”Grand National” predecessor series, and it’s legends? Yes.

February 27, 2007 at 12:58 pm
(412) mike l says:

i ment do you like it in general. like watching the race at home or wearing a hat with your favorite driver. but its nice to know someone against toyota has such a vast knowledge of all the topics that make the sport. steve you hit the nail right on the head. all the “rookie” fans dont get what was about. it changed so much for the wrong in the past year.

February 27, 2007 at 5:08 pm
(413) This is the answer to Scapegoa says:

This is how the Japanese destroyed our television market in the 70’s. Does anyone care?

Dumping is an illegal business practice and requires -most of the time- the collaboration of a government. Japan has conquered many markets like this, and as I said in my previous posting, that is how the American TV industry was killed. The Japanese auto companies started conquering the market here by dumping cars. That is a fact. Now they don’t need to that but the damage has been done. What they do now is taking advantage of two things:

1. Japan’s government subsidizing health care and other labor costs.
2. An American culture that thinks that if it is foreign, it must be better.
People are free to buy any car they want. However, do not rejoice when our car industry suffers because of your choices. And know that eventually someone will have to pick up the tab if any of our companies goes under. Who do you think will pay for the expenses of all those being supported by the pension and health-care funds? Uncle Sam! Who is Uncle Sam? All of us, paying more and more taxes. Remember that when if it happens, and then remember that most of the Toyota profits are now subsidizing Japanese citizens. You want a Japanese auto? Fine. Live with your conscience.

February 27, 2007 at 6:38 pm
(414) mike l says:

money, the root of all evil. yet you cant live with out it. at the least a good, some what easy life.

February 27, 2007 at 6:47 pm
(415) Rob says:

Mike L and Patricia, you two rednecks are still here?

I th ought you guys left the NASCAR as fans already?

I just came back from a short trip to a NASCAR event here in FONTANA, California.

There were lots of fans here in support of TOYOTA with no bickering or redneck hooligans such as yourselves.


Toyota pwned!

February 27, 2007 at 6:50 pm
(416) Jill says:


American companies build their cars outside of USA and that companies like Honda, Toyota, Subaru have plants here in the U.S >?

and we have people here CRYING AND COMPLAINING about these international companies?

You guys should complain about how the American Auto’s out outsourcing their resources!


February 27, 2007 at 6:54 pm
(417) Those who Love America says:

Hey Rob The rest of the country knows how it is in California la la land fruits and illegals and Hollywood morons

Does it bother you that Patricia has 50 points on your iq

February 27, 2007 at 7:22 pm
(418) mike l says:

jill and rob, your idiots. you dont understand what an American sport is. why do you think toyota make their cars here? if you think its to make jobs stay here your wrong. its to fool idiots like you and get on your good side. the big three send jobs overseas because they cant afford to keep them here. why? toyota and others take away most of their sales and therefore less profit. what happens when they send your jobs away? you wont be happy. and it can happen. look at the airlines maintenance jobs.

February 27, 2007 at 7:56 pm
(419) Scapegoat says:

Japan certainly profits from the sale of Japanese products. However:

“An American culture that thinks that if it is foreign, it must be better.” Who’s fault is that? Once again, you’re blaming Japan for something that American’s whole-heartedly bought into, for better or for worse. Japan forced no one to buy their products. People bought them because they thought they were a good value.

People act surprised that NASCAR is all about money. As soon as the winner gets out of his car in the winner’s circle, advertisers start shoving Coke down his throat and rotating through about 9 baseball caps so every advertiser gets his name on TV. As some have said, the “real racing” died a long time ago.

February 27, 2007 at 10:43 pm
(420) Bla Bla Bla says:

Jill and Scapegoat should marry and move to Japan lol

non American pro left liberials

February 27, 2007 at 10:51 pm
(421) Root says:

That ain’t righ. Then theyd be two ingmoramasus in japan with American liberal views. Then theyd be selling us imported hotdogs at baseball!

Jyst shoot ‘em

February 27, 2007 at 11:40 pm
(422) mike l says:

what is that supposed to mean? doesnt make any sense. make up you mind you immature child. and we lost our tv market because once again, japan and china fooled all the gullible people by selling them tvs real cheap and only the patriots understood what was going on. get it through your thick head and realize you are getting fooled into supporting communism.

February 28, 2007 at 12:45 am
(423) Scapegoat says:

China is communist, Japan is not. Thought I’d point that out since you’re hating on Japan.

You’re right about one thing: it’s easier to blame than to acknowledge responsiblity. cufishing (who has taken no explicit side) addressed this issue better than anyone. His values express his patriotism, his pride in our country’s products, and the desire to have our products excel. However, unlike you, he acknowledges that we’re the reason for our current situation, not dem waskly for’ners.

Please continue to play victim and degrade yourself with your total lack of accountability. Do you make this many excuses to your superior officer?

I’m really starting to wonder if you’re for real. Maybe your just a fiction of some Toyota fan’s imagination, planted here to tarnish the other anti-Toyota posters who present valid arguments.

February 28, 2007 at 3:11 am
(424) steve says:

i live in canada.i work for mopar.the overwhelming majority of parts are made in the usa. canada is not even a close second.but a great deal of the cars are built here.why is that? i got three reasons/opinions.i also asked other employees.one is a cheaper cdn dollar;in other words it cheaper for the big three to build here.two,govt subsidized health care.three,and this is what we have read and told ,is better productivity.but i suspect the first two are the main reasons.guess what, japanese manufacturers have the same advantages plus there parts are made in japan.american car companies would love to build more in there own country,but its a economically harder thing to do.the vast majority of japanese cars still come from japan.those factories in the states are nothing more than pr tokens.

February 28, 2007 at 11:43 am
(425) Root says:

^ look up!
Ha! Ha!
What he said!

I bet mike can kick your butt! He’s got that turbo diesal truck. He make you turn red! Ha! Ha!

February 28, 2007 at 1:40 pm
(426) mike l says:

also, i said it before, if i had a choice to buy all American i would. this isnt a blame game, its the truth. and like that movie quote, “you want the truth, well you cant handle the truth” and you realky cant because you are to narrow minded and cant see the other sides reasons for what they say. seems to me that your playing the blame game, but dont see that you are. sorry, your not a child, you just have the brain of one. actully, im not sorry.

February 28, 2007 at 2:13 pm
(427) Root says:

Whered he go? How you know he 500 miles away? I’m missing sumpin here. How you know??? How he make post disapear????

February 28, 2007 at 8:14 pm
(428) melissa says:

nascar ruins racing for me. F1 baby!!!

February 28, 2007 at 8:31 pm
(429) mike l says:

f1 sucks. where did my post go.

February 28, 2007 at 9:05 pm
(430) Duane says:

The Camry is made in Kentucky, The Tundra is made in Indiana. Toyota is synonomous with quality and resale value. How many Fords or Chevys with 100,000+ can you sell for $10,000+. Anyway NASCAR is for rednecks, IHRA all the way.

February 28, 2007 at 9:15 pm
(431) Root says:

How you make post go away?
What IHRA? Internal Hotdork Riding Associate? Ha! Ha!
How many ‘yo’ worth $10? NONE! Ha! Ha!

February 28, 2007 at 9:30 pm
(432) Dingo says:

Many of you Yanks are saying that foreign companies take money back to thier homeland but simply don’t acknowledge that the profits earn’t by the many overseas companies that GM/Ford own (eg Holden here in Oz) goes back you you. What shear arrogance some of you Americans have. It’s OK if the money goes to yank land but not the reverse. Here in Austrlia Holden and Ford are on a huge decline becuase we have had an adsolute gut full of the inferior engineered (utter crap) that America has provided us. Your local car manufactuers like GM and Ford have provided us with unreliable, gas swallowing, inferior quality cars for far to long and now the tide is turning ever so more quickly by the year and i think it is about bloody time. I ‘ve noticed many car buyers are sharing the same point of view in America. Companies like Toyota, Mazda and Honda produce damn fine vehicles indeed and something GM and Ford are scared shitless of. If your beloved GM/Ford products are so good like some say then why all the concern for a juggernaut like Toyota to compete. Maybe your junk cars are are not so good afterall and simply beaten by tyhelikes of Toyota. Good !!… i love it, Bring it on.

February 28, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(433) shaneT says:

Go Toyota – i love your products.

February 28, 2007 at 9:55 pm
(434) mike l says:

shane, you love crappy products then. daune, you know ihra and nhra both just as redneck as nascar. and all cars that are only 1 year old with hundo thousand sell for that much, as long as they arent abused or wrecked. people put toyotas out so early because if they resell more they know it will make toyota look better. its all a setup. way to sellout your country, must make you fell good when when you put fellow Americans out of a good job when you buy forgien. what till you loss your jobs to a forgiener

March 1, 2007 at 1:59 am
(435) Shane T says:

There are alot of comments regarding if one buys foreign then the money will end up overseas. To me that is an extremely arrogant point of view because the dollars earn’t from the overseas owned companies of GM/Ford (eg Holden here in great Oz) just goes back to America. It appears OK for America to recieve foreign dividends but not the reverse. That is shear arrogance at the best.

As far as i concerned, GM and Ford have been manufacturing poorly engineered vehicles for far to long and many people have had an absolute gut full. Here in Austrlia the likes of Holden and Ford are taking an absolute pounding from the likes of Toyota, Mazda etc because unlike the American counterparts, they are providing good quality, utter reliable, innovative cars that have unmatched dependability and longevity. My 2 Toyota’s for an example have provided me with hassle free maotoring unlike some of the American junk we get.

If some people think that thier beloved GM/Ford products are so good then why the big concern of Toyota entering NASCAR. Maybe becuase some know that thier GM car is not what they are cracked-up to be. GM and Ford truely do biuld some of the worst cars one could possibly buy and the likes of Toyota have proven through the test of time that thier cars are extremely reliable and robust and far less dependant on garages to keep ‘em motoring along.

It is my undertsand that GM and Ford in America advertise how American they are yet are increasingly sending the manufacturing of vehicles, engines and other automotive parts externally (eg North to Canada and South to Mexico). Why some people are fooled by such advertising is beyond me so wake up and smeel the roses. Society is changing and so are American Companies.

March 1, 2007 at 2:46 am
(436) Shane T says:

Mike I – you suggested to me that Toyota produce crappy cars but that has absolutely no meaning or context what so ever. The only companies manufacturing crappy cars is GM and Ford. Some examples from them have been woeful at the best. The likes of Toyota, Mazda, Honda etc and earn’t themselves a very honourable reputation of producing damn fine vehicles indeed.

To prove your arrogance you have only mentioned (concentrated with blinkers on) about the $$$ going back to Toyota HQ but not for one moment have you recognised what companies like Toyota is doing for the American economy. It is my understanding that Toyota employs something like 300 000 in the manufacturing industry alone and then there are those employed in Sales as Spare parts interpreters, mechanics, detailers etc in the vast array of dealerships that can be located across America. And then there are all those companies that produce and provide automotive associated parts. That is alot of employed personnel all earning honest dollars for there family and economy. What you have done Mike was concentrated on the negatives but gave absolutely no thought towards the huge postives.

Here in Austrlia, Toyota source more Australian made components for the Camry then any other local manufactuer and yet Holden likes to promote themselves as the ‘Australian Company’. What crap !!

If poeple like yourself say buy GM/Ford for America then all you are doing is condemning poeple to buy what i consider inferior products over superior but that doesn’t matter does it. What about all those hard working families that have to return thier ‘out of warranty’ GM/Ford car to the garage for MORE COSTLY REPAIRS when most alternative could have saved ‘em heaps in the longer term with greater dependability. There is no doubt that many Japanese manufactuers build quality cars indeed. Each time you return a car for fault rectification all you are doing is making them richer and you poorer and do you think they give a damn – absolutely not, just more $$$ for them. Mike, you really are as aorrogant as they come so get rid of your narrow minded thoughts and only buy a GM/Ford product if it really is the better alternative and for many they are not.

March 1, 2007 at 9:21 am
(437) Root says:

dead-head. Ha! Ha! sounds like a scene from Pirates-Dead mans chest. U R funny man. What you live life with? So, this dude makes a post, hollers about some womnan, Patty or sumpin. Ha! Ha, funny. Then he says bad things about mike. Then I make post, and then his post is gone. Then mike make post, and he sya this guy 500 miles away. How he know that? Then mike post gone? I don’t know what that is, but those post are gone. Then you roll up, Ha! Ha! Where you with Paris when she got busted again? Ha Ha! bet that was funny. I bet you she don’t do jail. Bet her daddy money buy her free. dirtracer good dude. He say it about fixing them ‘yo’ cars, cost much money. Shane not funny :( . He make daddy mad about his car in Austria. Daddy work for GM. My first car will be a GM.

March 1, 2007 at 2:18 pm
(438) dead head says:

get this, there are just as many American cars that last as long as toyotas. and some that dont. same with toyota. and yes, toyota does make some quality cars but the technology came from the big three. the arent time tested, theyve been around since 1933. wheres all them if they last so long. i see plenty of 33 chevy trucks still driving with out being restored.

March 1, 2007 at 4:29 pm
(439) Shane T says:

deadhead – your name says it all. You mention that GM/Ford have the technology yet the Japanese copy it. Mate, you really are none the wiser !!

American automotive companies are the biggest copiers of all. Most new advancements are either originated in Germany or Japan (mostly Germany)and then many many years later maybe adopted by the likes of GM/Ford. How nieve are some of you jokers. Have a look at GM V8′s for example – still using pushrods – that is total dinasour era stuff and only recently moved away from pushrods in GM/Ford 6 cyl’s. Alloy blocks, quad cams, multi valves, semi and full sequential injection as with direct injection, varable cam/valve timiing and 60 degree banks ALL orinated externally of American shores. I’ve underestimated the nievity of some of you people.

My earlier question still hasn’t been answered – why are so many concerned about Toyota entering NASCAR. Many will say for traditional reasons but i strongly doubt that for a second. I’ll be more inclined to suggest becuase of Toyota’s huge financial backing, engineering expertise and the fact that they will eventually start winning which will bring shame on local GM/Ford cars. Sore losers !!

Another qusetion, why is it that not just in America but also here in the great land down under (Australia)that many customers are rapidly shying away from GM/Ford metal for German/Japanese engineering instead. I can suggest a few reasons… greater quality, reliabilty/dependability, longevity, technological advancement, rising fuel prices and the fact that some companies are trying to be more environmentally responsable. As far as i’m concerned, German and Japanese engineering is far superior then GM/Ford and will be for the foreseeable future.

Instead of knocking the likes of Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Lexus, BMW’s etc why don’t some of you stop and ponder the huge postives that they are offering and for the likes of Toyota the huge amount of employment in thier local manufacturing, dealerships and component engineering. Toyota here in Australia has invested deeply into state-of-the-art engineering processes, Research and Development and comonent manufacturing as with the biggest export programme of all and as much as we acknowledge the $$$ go back to Toyota HQ we also acknowledge the huge economical benefits they bring to our shores aswell. No different to thier establishment in America. Toyota is a damn fine automotive entity so give’em a go and they’ll probably even do you pro GM/Ford campers a favour by forcing better products from them which is something that probably wouldn’t be done otherwise. Don’t be scared of something different of change becuase time stops for no man, move with it not against.

The only reason why the likes of GM/Ford are worried is because of the impact on thier bottomline so they try the traditional method to retain loyalty but it is only about the dollars. They don’t have loyalty or worry about traditions – them moving more and more practices overseas and across your borders is testimony to that. Eg, i believe the new GEN4 v8 is manufactuered in Mexico and then shipped across the border back into USA and then GM say…look how much American we are !! It’s got not nothing to do with loyalty or traditions, just $$$.

March 1, 2007 at 4:55 pm
(440) Pvee says:

There is no big three now.

Chrysler is not American owned.

March 1, 2007 at 7:24 pm
(441) mike l says:

shane, dont pick on deadhead when you live australlia. its an AMERICAN sport. where do you fit into the topic of an American sport that involves American cars. he makes good points. you dont think that anyone is able to say something that make sense to us in the US that support our country. why do you think your so smart but everyone else is dumb and cant see whats happening to our auto industry. theres reasons why its like the way it is. and no one likes where its going. push rods are heavy duty.

March 1, 2007 at 8:01 pm
(442) Shane T says:

Mike, you haven’t attempted to answer any of my questions. Can you please atleast try.

Where Australia (as with many other nations) fit into it is that we were once but increasingly less so thank god have been heavily influenced by American automotive companies like GM and Ford. What you guys engineer tend to filter to us eventually and now some of our Holden products will be sold in America. Once again, you guys don’t have a problem with influencing external parties but tend to have an issue vice-versa. Like it or not Mike but globalisation is and will have influancing factors on all of us (and certainly something that i don’t agree with but regardless it won’t be stopped)so what you do effects us, what we do effect you and what Japan does effect all of us so on so on. And don’t forget Mike, what about all the auto companies worldwide that GM and Ford own between them and the influences that they have because of American decisions.

Once again, what is the big issue with Toyota entering NASCAR- i think it is a damn good idea.

March 1, 2007 at 8:05 pm
(443) Last of the true Americans says:

Shane likes to beat others down, makes him feel better for not supporting Americans and our workers. If he thinks that others don’t steal our technology he must be from Mars. Asia society preaches teamwork not innovation.


WHAT A LOOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!

March 1, 2007 at 8:11 pm
(444) Some of us don't like Nascar anyway says:

I worked at scrap metal company for over 5 years as a buyer and you guys know that Asian crap is made from our scrap

Fine Automobiles lol :~(

March 1, 2007 at 9:09 pm
(445) Scapegoat says:

Shane T: You’re wasting your time arguing with Mike and his brothers Root and Deadhead. Actually, the three of them are somewhat unsophisticated biggot-bots. You can tell this because all are quick to respond with unintelligible responses consisting mostly of adolescent insults and are apparently incapable of reason.

As some have said: just because something is imported doesn’t make it better. However, immediatly labling anything produced by a different country/culture as ‘crap’, without considering both the disadvantages and ADVANTAGES is ignorant and racist. Some posters who don’t favor Toyota’s entry make very good points – the bots do not and never will.

March 1, 2007 at 9:20 pm
(446) Patricia says:

#478 Rob says:

“Mike L and Patricia, you two rednecks are still here?”
I’ve been called many things in my life, but a redneck? Now, that’s a first. I was born in Spain and America is the country that I love and where I live. My house is few minutes from New York City. Yeah, I guess I am a purebred redneck!!!
Ignorant Rob…

As for the kangaroo from Down Under (Shane… sounds very gay, doesn’t it?): You don’t live here –so you just don’t understand. Why don’t you join a
forum on things that relate to you and your country?
Some of us love Nascar to remain for American brands only. Death to Toyota!!

March 1, 2007 at 9:25 pm
(447) All American says:

You really need help scapegoat,name calling? still making excuses for unfair trade laws and belittling others.

Does it make you feel better? The biggots and so called racist won’t forget folks like you

Biggist raciist of all are Asians ever go to Japan?

Your turn, you know you have to have the last word.

March 1, 2007 at 9:56 pm
(448) Scapegoat says:

[Patricial] Stop responding and I’ll stop responding. That’s how a dialogue works.

So far, I’ve been called non-American, immature child, ingmoramasus (that’s a good one), and told I should be shot. As far as the name calling is concerned, I don’t think I’m a big contender. Besides, what’s up with calling an Austrialian a Kanagaroo and making fun of his name, Pat (dude or chick, who can tell). What a hypocrite.

March 1, 2007 at 11:29 pm
(449) mike l says:

to clear things up i am not against forgien cars when they dont shut down American brands. im all for FREE and FAIR trade. but i hate all forgien cars now because it is not a healthy trade we have with them. if it was fair i wouldnt have a problem with toyota in nascar. but not only are they trying to be the best car maker, they have to attempt to take over nascar. it needs to be fair. im not against the idea of global trade by all means. then it would be nice to see some new blood,but its not real fair

March 2, 2007 at 12:05 am
(450) mike l says:

shane, American cars are of the same quality as toyota. read my last post. it hurt to say but its what i really think. some fair trade would be nice. keyword fair. and to your questions, no ones gonna respond to them because they all where either the topic of an earlier day or no one has an answer that isnt going to start another off topic subject. if only people could see that both sides present valid opinions and they all in some way revolve around trade.

March 2, 2007 at 12:26 am
(451) mike l says:

arrogant. funny word. tossed around alot on this page. when someone calls another arrogant, arent they arrogant themselves. hypocrite is the word i belive. face it, all we do on this site is ridicule each other. how about instead of slamming each other we should post what we have to say and others can comment. no ones more right then any other. thats the problem, everyone is better then everyone else. thats what they think any ways.

March 2, 2007 at 1:50 am
(452) steve says:

i elluded to the fact that i hate toyota in nascar because they have zero hiperformance street credibility.mike1,check out toyotas web site.they do not have not one!not one! hiperformance car.corolla-nope!,yaris-zero!avalon-forgetit!,camery-ha!ha!ha!-and so toyota wants to race without putting anything on the street.what a joke.i also checked out there hiperformance parts catalog.it boils down to filters,brakes,suspension and other trinkets.oh,they offer an eaton supercharger-oh boy!dont get me wrong ,im not one of those who say they make crap.but they certainly dont go out on a lim and build anything exciting.-corvette,camaro,mustang,ford gt,charger,viper,srt,ss,boss,etc,etc.if toyota wants to spend a billion to race-fine.but put something on the streetand we will see how relible they will be other than there boring toasters on wheels.

March 2, 2007 at 2:16 am
(453) mike l says:

steve i agree and i think i was one of the first to say that. but we need a fair and free global economy. and i know all they have is dumb little tuners. anyone of my cars could bet any toyota. they aint time tested. like i said with their”trucks”. i just think that “compition” would be good if we could have a world with fair trade. even though theyd never win any ways, and i still wouldnt buy one. chevy all the way. but think what if we could keep our jobs here, and when a toyota goes you just laugh.

March 2, 2007 at 11:04 am
(454) cufishing says:

I see this thread has gone complete circle. Circles are incapable of forward progress. By emplacing limitations on ones forward progress restricts the entire effort of a movement (Daytona). A societal movement cannot gain ground if it is circular, however, it can certainly lose ground.

Name calling: Why? Is that all that is left? Are we at such a low in modern society that we must revert to juvenility tactics? I honestly hope not, but the proof is in the pudding.

Who is a redneck?
What is redneck?
What do rednecks look like?

Redneck: “A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude”.

Provincial: “Limited in perspective; narrow and self-centered”.

Conservative: “Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change”.

Bigot: “One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ”.

March 2, 2007 at 11:31 am
(455) cufishing says:


Sir I have been outside of my borders. I have observed, and studied marketing of foreign investors, investor relations, political strategies and customer relations management. I have attended seminars in Europe, Asia, Africa and other nations. I have corresponded with people of your country, and your geographical region. Furthermore, I see things without blinders hindering my vision. I understand what you say. I feel what you say. However, my society will not tolerate your abusive ways of speech. I know, I honestly know, that what my government says to my society, is not always what it says to your society, and other societies of the world.

You make an excellent point, let us refine that point. …”rest of the globe has had an absolute gut full of and are finally starting to withdraw support” Exactly! We, (as in Americans) have had an absolute “gut full” of outsourcing, Asian tariffs, Asian taxes, and Asian imports! Now sir, correlate that to your intestinal fortitude and understand we can all come to an agreement. However, as with many things in life, change is not as easy to propagate as it is to proliferate.
Questions? I must have inadvertently missed your questions. Would it be possible to reiterate them?

March 2, 2007 at 2:02 pm
(456) Get Wise says:

Some have to have the last word and try to impress with textbook knowledge.


And so full of himself and his education. When it falls appart he won’t survive


March 2, 2007 at 10:26 pm
(457) cufishing says:

Well darn, I really did not mean to serve such an approach.

I attempt to persuade, coax, and inform, leaning towards commonality than through coercion. As a person of people, I fully understand that each and every person is an individual with their own inherent set of needs, wants, and attributes. Most people only need a spark to kindle their flame; others however, might need an inferno.

Are you here to help me then? You enunciate exorbitantly well.

Is this then my test? A special version just for me? My very own test of the infamous “i”?
Surely I have the capacity to exceed expectations here?
Surely I have the internal fortitude to compete with such a woeful master as you?

If the known ingredients of jealousy and envy create animosity, what then, equates a “Troll”?

So skool me then, oh “Get Wise” one, AKA “Last of the true Americans”, a.k.a. “ITS ALL ABOUT YOU”, and probably a few other monikers that you hide behind!

Two things are certain, America is spiraling downward at break-neck speed. And; You have the audacity to take personal snipes at folks on the internet, within a thread about Toyota ruining NASCAR, and you don’t even have the tenacity to expose yourself consistently! SAD!!!!

wellthen doesit really meanthat You must be sad-fully full of yourself thatyou cannot cope? Opps, looks like I failed the ignore the troll test!sorryfolks but eveni cannot tolerate a persoanlattack.

March 3, 2007 at 12:14 am
(458) Shane T says:

Cufishing – you now understand what it is like being arrogant and abused towards. Something that many of us have had to endure long enough. Not pleasant is it. Your culture needs to have a greater acknowledgment of your very statement.

I have have asked several questions but little answered but just abused – how arrogant.

The main Q’ i so desirely want answered is why the big uproar towards Toyota entering Nascar. Correct me if i’m wrong but i believe it is because if Toyota eventually goes to stardom then the likes of GM and Ford would hurt even further.

GM and Ford through all thier various global subsidaries have influanced many automotive markets for many generations as likewise in Australia but now that some external companies like Toyota, Mazda and Honda are having a profound effect then it is an AWFUL thought. How rude is that.

Secondly, with the likes of many hard core GM/Ford loyalists suggesting how great thier local car manufactuers are, why are we witnessing not just in America and Australia but on a global level are rapidly declining customer base. To me the answer to that is simple – because they are not quality or well engineered vehicles (and fuel prices). GM and Ford here in Australia have gained a reputation of providing some woeful products.

And, why are so many Americans so nieve towards anyhing external of thier own borders and in this case so nieve towards foreign car companies.

If you want to answer any other questions then feel free to scroll back and read some of my earlier statements

March 3, 2007 at 3:10 am
(459) steve says:

i will have a go at answering some of shanes questions;at least from my view point.for me ,toyota was the last straw.i have been losing interest in nascar for a few years now mostly because its so differnt now.the “cars” are just to phony.i like style and perfomance and toyota offers neither.they are just not cool.cufishing made a good point in regards to having had enough of asian imports in general. yea its cheap but man i cant belive the garbage thats made over there.i dont just say that ive experienced that crap.one other thing,ive been looking at some toyotas and i really,really,really just dont get it.i dont understand the attraction.these things are worse than ugly,they are boring looking cars.

March 3, 2007 at 3:24 am
(460) steve says:

one other point.toyota may or may not do well in nascar.in fact thats a moot point because nascar will insure that toyota is compeitive(another reason why nascar is turning me off!)i would prefer that nascar remained a “big three”sport,however, if it wants to go international it should be open to those car makers who have actually put a sports/hiperfomance/muscle car on the street.again, ive looked at camerys,corollas,etc.and i just dont get it.zero flare;zero sex appeal,zero style.

March 3, 2007 at 3:27 am
(461) steve says:

ohyea…and zero performance!!!

March 3, 2007 at 4:10 am
(462) dead head says:

steve, you know it dude. they aint got nothin on us. they are tuners and only draw customers in the “in” crowd. to them all they care about is driving cars that the stars drive. i like how the govement cars are almost all GM. only the best. why do people like them assugly cars. like the honda element. looks like a box. and they all have very small engines. my coworkers toyota looks like he drove it through a parts store with a magnet on it. but all of the upgrades are for looks. except the nos. rock on US!

March 3, 2007 at 10:07 am
(463) cufishing says:

In my society there are players and haters. The players really attempt to stay on task, abide by what is right, and generally enjoy their short stay on this planet; Life really is to short! Then there are the haters who feel they got a raw deal, were not quite good enough to make the cut, or cannot look themselves in the mirror and demand change. They live with a constant hate towards others who did make the cut. The worst case of haters is the internet “Troll”. Full of themselves with envy and jealousy, quick to share their narrow minded views in a belittling manner towards others, grab attention and moreover, fail to add any value to a thread all the while filling their gullet with absurd satisfaction.
The thing about haters thou is they fail to observe the whole entity. Nobody here really knows the other, but some have built pacts of interest. The “Troll” here does not know you, the man in the space station, or me, nor does he know anything about you, the rest of the posters’, or me (he might, that may be his hidden moniker theory) but he displays dislike for me because I did something as an individual to break out of a mold. I speak for myself without a support group, I’m capable of my own thought process, and I can validate my information, theories and general assumptions. Therefore he will attempt to belittle anything that might show signs of his earthly littleness and ineffectiveness in society.
It is normally best to “I”gnore these loathsome individuals and let them die of starvation, however, once they make a personal attack the rules of engagement change.

“Toyota entering NASCAR”: From the standpoint of a global economy there are several inclusive and “un”-balanced free trade agreements globally. From this start point: Toyota entered the US market as a proving ground for their products. My society is full of long lasting hatred, evolved and instilled from generation to generation, fostered on the whelm that we must never forget. Therefore some never will forget select ideologies of our history. Yet some are quick to forget other faucets of history, especially if it deals with how we “really screwed that one up”. Blame should not be placed on the people who create the core of the American heartland; rather it should be focused on the US media. NASCAR started in the 1950’s, it did not consist of only American, or US labeled automobiles. That is the first fallacy of NASCAR history; its founding roots were not explicit. NASCAR eventually evolved into American only products, and then a new generation was fostered. All the while our government did not place tariff rates on Asian products. The Asian economy grew by leaps and bounds, and more and more products headed our way, “supported by our government” and literally pulled through marketing channels from the US consumer (death of US TV market). Enter Toyota: They entered the Off-road race truck series in that sports heyday, and totally dominated it. However, what good they did poor into that sport, the new events created for that sport, and an entirely new sport created from within all belonged to Toyota. This began the increase of US consumerism of the Asian automobile. Toyota now builds on US soil. Now they are entering NASCAR.
Recap: Our government *had* to win the race to nuclear superiority, we *had* to defeat the Japanese to end WWII. Our (at the time) current officials created a mass media program to gain support to finish the war, and build a lasting hatred for the Japanese. Our government convinced the entire nation that the Japanese empire was so evil, so chaotic, and so determined to capture the world, that if we did not stop them with the A-Bomb, they may never be stopped. Enter our first place finish to nuclear weapons, and world domination! Next stage; after the rebuild we have been ever so filled with an absolute “gut full” of Asian products, we don’t want another! That is the root core of all hatred for this venture!

March 3, 2007 at 10:41 am
(464) cufishing says:


“GM/Ford influence”; Yes and ok. Refer back to the recap of my previous post. Include the fact that in the “eye of the beholder” inferior products / companies have no influential right on this market. Take that for face value.

“Decline”; Quality and engineering? Outsourcing! Job security.
Fuel economy: Yes I can see that as the single most distracter for a US vehicle outside of the US. We have been duped into believing that somewhere around 30 mpg is an absolute perfect fuel economy. Our government keeps our fossil fuel prices at the lowest on the planet. Therefore, we must consume more fuel to keep this policy active. As with all circular cycles it cannot be easily broken. When Ford Europe released the Focus, it had an approximate rated fuel economy of 5.67 Ltr/100Km. that equates to just over 40MPG. However, when US Ford released the Focus, its fuel economy was center mass 30MPG. However, today’s Focus is close to its European predecessor.

“Naïve”; We have lost America as it was for my father’s, fathers generation. Some entities of business have driven entire corporations to outsourcing (UAW). A “gut full” of Asian imports is more than enough. I will end here as my internal hatred factor is building.

March 4, 2007 at 6:45 am
(465) Patricia says:

Let me answer ignorant Shane T. You said, in reference to GM and Ford:
“(…) why are we witnessing not just in America and Australia but on a global level are rapidly declining customer base. To me the answer to that is simple – because they are not quality or well engineered vehicles (and fuel prices). GM and Ford here in Australia have gained a reputation of providing some woeful products.

Well, Shane, you may think that we, Americans, are stupid and uneducated. You can’t fool me with your false grandiose statements. First of all, GM’s North America retail sales for February 2007 surged 11%. That’s right, RETAIL sales up that much, Shane T. As for your global statements:
The facts on GM from its December 2006 financial report:

“GM Asia Pacific posted adjusted net earnings of $83 million for the third quarter (reported net earnings of $231 million), down from last year’s earnings of $188 million. The difference primarily reflects the loss of income from Suzuki following the reduction in GM’s equity interest in Suzuki and costs associated with launching the important all-new Holden Commodore and Statesman models in Australia. Strong sales performance in the region continued as market share increased to 6.2 percent from 5.9 percent, driven primarily by growth in Korea and China. GM products continue to gain strong acceptance in the fast-growing China market, with record third quarter sales of 192,000 units, up 17 percent over the same period last year. GM’s global sales of GM Daewoo products exceeded 276,000 units in the third quarter, up 21 percent over third quarter 2005.

GM Latin America, Africa and Middle East posted strong adjusted and reported net earnings of $184 million for the third quarter, which reflects an improvement of $153 million from the year-ago period. The results primarily reflect an increase in volume generated by new product launches throughout the region. Market share in the region increased to 17.3 percent from 16.7 percent in the year-ago period as a result of strong sales in Brazil, South Africa, Colombia and the Middle East.

“Our Latin America, Africa and Middle East region posted their best quarterly financial results in nine years,” said Wagoner. “We are seeing strong performance and growth in virtually every market in the region – - a great example of leveraging our global product portfolio in key growth markets.”

Shane in a geeky Toyota, watching dingos and kangaroos…what a vision, ugggh

March 4, 2007 at 7:00 am
(466) Patricia says:

455 Sir Irony:
You said: “To salvage any American pride left in what Daimler did to Chrysler, which was a complete take over, and try to call it a hybrid is a joke. Get off your double standard and get the facts straight. Dodge is a Division of Daimler-Chrysler now and the parent company is in Germany. Germany controls what Dodge does. If Daimler says No, then its “NO” for Chrysler.”

Daimler being the parent company and having total control is not enough to make Chrysler a German company. I called it a hybrid because it’s an American brand (“born and raised” here) that is now owned by a foreign firm. I stand by my statement.

Your Nazi joke (“You can now all that Hemi a Himmler.”) is tasteles. I don’t think that anyone should find humor in the extermination of 6 million people.

Your sexist joke (“If you need consoling, you can get it from Dr. Z”)was funny. My husband loved it. I get consolation from him all the time. He tells me that “Sir Irony” is probably your penis’ pet name. His is “The Python”, and there is no irony there.

March 4, 2007 at 7:05 am
(467) Patricia says:

To this site’s moderator/webmaster:
You have now close to 600 comments. How many more before you create a page navigation system? We have to scroll for hours to get to the recent comments!!!
We need links like these:
page 1 2 3 next

March 4, 2007 at 9:27 am
(468) cufishing says:

Thank you for your comments.
Use the end key, scroll up.

Prime examples that people of my society can never forget deeds of others.

March 4, 2007 at 3:59 pm
(469) Patricia says:

Thanks, Cufishing.

March 4, 2007 at 8:23 pm
(470) Cusco says:

Can you buy a Toyota with their NASCAR style motor? Of course not, it is an American design simular to American Motors Corp. (Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, combo clone). Will you find a foreign design in Top Fuel Toyota Funny Cars? Of course not, all of them use American Design based on the old HEMI. Toyota in NASCAR does not promote their brand since nothing about a Nascar Toyota is Toyota!

March 4, 2007 at 10:31 pm
(471) cufishing says:

That is a mighty double sided key you type with.
A lot of folks have departed NASCAR because of the non-affiliation of the car manufacturer, hence the body aerodynamic “Template”, engine codes, and whatnots.

I salute you on your NHRA comparison.
Gotta love them HEMIs!

However, to keep things fair, Toyota does build a race worthy V-8. It’s referred to as a Toyota RVX-07, it produces over 740-Bhp, and screams (literally) at 19,000 RPMs.

March 5, 2007 at 7:47 am
(472) Robbie says:

Jon Lancaster What The Hell Are You Talking About The Orgin of Toyota is JAPAN Just Because They MANUFACTURE Toyota’s Here In The U.S. Doesn’t Make It AMERICAN GM is The LARGEST Automaker IN THE WORLD!!! Looks Like All You People Defending Toyota Here Need To Check Your Googled Information Before You Try To Start An Arguement

March 5, 2007 at 3:55 pm
(473) Shannon says:

If you read the most recent Consumer Reports it shows where all the big car manufacturers have plants. Toyota is the number 1 manufacturer in the U.S. If the profits aren’t going back to the American workers (i.e. American economy), what good are they anyway? Seems to me that Toyota is the only company that values the skilled American workforce. Your “American” car manufacturers would rather pay less on the hour and offer less benefits than get a quality product.

March 5, 2007 at 4:17 pm
(474) I live near Toyota in Kentucky says:

Let me tell you about Toyota, i see it on our local news all the time. And i have friends that work there. They treat the employes so badly they have been trying to get a union for years. When the company hears about who is talking about it they get fired.

So don’t tell how great they are.They pay less than Ford In Louisville and workers have no rights.

Wake up and get real. A culture In American that defends unfair trade and supports Asian Instead of American companies

March 5, 2007 at 4:59 pm
(475) cufishing says:

What exactly do you see all the time on the local news?

I cannot fatom such treatment as to not warrant any civil rights crisis. The ACLU would be circling in a rabid frenzy of any such knowledge. Furthermore, would Wal-Mart still be at the top of this shameful list?

As far as pay, some people on this site are paid less than the Louisville Ford workers, maybe another reason they are losing ground, and jobs?

March 5, 2007 at 9:38 pm
(476) Patricia says:

#547 Shannon:
What type of ignorant would make a remark like yours? Toyota is the number one manufacturer in America??? I hate people who make statements that are just pure lies. Where is the data to back up your grandiose lie? Shame on you!

From Karl Brauer,editor in chief from Edmunds.com:
“An AP story from last Friday analyzed the possibility of Toyota facing a serious backlash in the U.S. because of the company’s massive success in North America. The article suggests that while Toyota is working to increase the number of cars and parts that are produced in America it still imports over half (54 percent) of its total sales from outside our Great Land (mostly from Japan). Some GM folks recently suggested to me that being number one isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. With that title comes the biggest target of everyone from government agencies to consumer watchdog groups.

There’s no denying that Toyota is creating jobs and boosting the economy of the U.S. — at least at the local level. You can read about the new Mississippi plant they just announced here. But as was noted on my recent blog about “What does ‘American Made’ really mean?” the big cheeses at the big T all sit in Japan, and that’s where the bulk of the profits go.”

Death to Toyota

March 5, 2007 at 10:53 pm
(477) Kentucky Proud says:

The ACLU is only good for taking God from our schools and protecting those that really hate us. And yes Toyota does pay less and a Camry cost more than a Ford Taurus. Where do you think the excess money goes. Stop making excuses for what Toyota has done with the help of plenty of our people in Washington

One day Americans will wise up and stop this madness

March 6, 2007 at 12:09 am
(478) dead head says:

doesnt toyota just pi*s you right off. how good did toyota do on sunday? once again they brought up the back of the pac. why is there a track in mexico dude. while it isnt as serious as toyota, it still is a turn in the wrong direction man. we should boycot that too. lets keep nascar american. go chevys, fords and dodges.

March 6, 2007 at 1:45 am
(479) steve says:

didnt bob lutz of gm recently say,tongue in cheek ,that toyota has more clout in washington than does gm!

March 6, 2007 at 9:04 am
(480) cufishing says:

@Fellow Bluegrass-ian;

Amen to your last sentence!

The rest is biased vile. Hint; the ACLU is who set into motion the three cases that were processed against Toyota. Ford no longer builds the taurus, so yes the camry *should* cost more. I am a pragmatistic individual; so don’t assume I’m making excuses when I’m putting forth supporting validatable information. We as a nation need to come together and express our views. That will neve happen if we can’t even agree within a thread that posed to us to express our concerns about Toyota entering NASCAR. Or rather, “Does Toyota Ruin NASCAR For You”?

FYI: Toyota is the only current vehicle in NASCAR that has it’s production model built in America.
That is the biggest disgrace of all!

March 6, 2007 at 10:25 am
(481) Root says:

Ok, I look up F1. Wow. So now I want to know why we don’t have a f1 race team. Go fast turn left on the roundy round is gr8, but F1 looks way cool.

March 6, 2007 at 10:29 am
(482) Root says:

dead dude, you one crazie man. Got milk? Thats what go with oreo. Mustad goes on hotdog at baseball.

March 6, 2007 at 11:25 am
(483) Kentucky Proud says:



We have a new congressman that is pushing a union at Toyota at Georgetown Ky because he does understand what they have been doing. Employee fired for having union stickers on his car!!!

This is how much you know The Taurus is back already Ford 500 is now the Taurus and is a much better car the Camry

Does Toyota pay you to talk this trash?

Your turn get your last word in

March 6, 2007 at 3:12 pm
(484) cufishing says:

Excuses? Hardly! I’m fully capable of handling both sides of the coin.

Liberal? Sure, why not.
I do have political and social views favoring reform and progress as well as the protection of civil liberties.
I also have a tolerance for change that is not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition.
I am all for the education of ALL Americans, as well as individual rights to our LEGAL citizens.
However, I’m a registered Republican, fellowship #F02934359.

Your new congressman is a great fellow in the political realm, if it were not for my current commitments I would have enjoyed working on his staff.

Shall we meet at Nolan Ford this Saturday around noonish? We really should review their 2007 full size car line up over a cup of hot coffee.

Unless you are Toyota, then no, I don’t get paid by them.

I’m sure you know that a dialogue is a reciprocal conversation between two or more parties and has no set termination point, rather an invitation to continue when one has completed their previous round.


March 6, 2007 at 10:33 pm
(485) J says:

There appears to be quite a bit of talk about Toyota employing lots of Americans, and how much these companies add to the U.S. economy. We hear that that anyone that takes issue with that is outdated and somehow less intelligent. What if those employees worked making cars for Ford or GM instead? The truth is that Honda and Toyota infuse money into the economy temporarily, but create long term ecomomic health problems for the U.S. Yes, these companies employ Americans, and yes these Americans spend their money in the U.S. However, there is no mistake that these are Japanese companies and that is where the profit goes. It goes to corporation. Each transaction that sends money generated in the U.S. to another country, adds to the deficit. What if that profit went to American companies instead? Yes, it is a global economy, and cars are made of components from all over the world, but purchasing a Japanese car (no matter where it was actually put together) adds to the deficit. Yes, it is a world economy with economies intertwined. But we are not one country yet, and at this point our country is suffering from a huge deficit. You can blame Republicans or Democrates or whoever you want for that. The truth is that no matter who you blame, the fact remains that buying cars from Japan or anywhere else for that matter does long term damage to the economy. Yes, Japan, Germany, and many other countries make fine products of high quality. There is no disputing that. I understand this argument for purchasing a foreign car. I am merely stating that foreign cars and other purchases to harm the U.S. economy long term. As someone who works in international business, I see this everyday. You can say that American companies build their cars all over and Toyota makes their cars in the U.S., but there is no mistaking where the majority of the profit goes, and how it does long term damage to the U.S.
As far as NASCAR is concerned, what is wrong with keeping with tradition and having American cars only (I know, they may be assembled elsewhere) in NASCAR?

March 6, 2007 at 11:12 pm
(486) cufishing says:


March 7, 2007 at 5:47 pm
(487) Patrick says:

I don’t watch nascar, although I have definitely felt like it has been making more of a presence on sports channels and such. Aside from whether or not nascar should allow foreign cars, I am appalled at the amount of racism being conveyed in the previous posts (I’m white… as hell). Just because you are uneducated and your uneducated pastor at your local southern baptist church thinks that foreigners are evil doesn’t mean they are. Secession should mean that the US implements a mandatory IQ test and separates the retards (higher % in the South) from those with a damned head on their shoulders.

March 7, 2007 at 5:57 pm
(488) J's an idiot says:

J posted this… “The truth is that no matter who you blame, the fact remains that buying cars from Japan or anywhere else for that matter does long term damage to the economy.”

All I can say is… wow. I guess if I were posting horse crap like that I’d have to hope that people who understood economics wouldn’t read it.

Ever heard of specialization or comparative advantage?

Guess not. Well screw it, if we can’t purchase from other countries, they have no incentive to purchase from us. So lets just go back to the isolationist point of view that we’ve held in the past as a nation. Then we can let WWII happen again, then you’d be happy right?

The war thing is sort of a joke (although relevant), but seriously, international trade, in no way, harms the economy. Governments running large deficits to keep taxes low in order to fund whatever they want (use your brain to figure out what I’m talking about).

March 7, 2007 at 10:13 pm
(489) All American says:

Posting #562 that says J’s an idiot must not have seen 8000 containers come in and about 5 go out. Global enconomy my but.


Get in your Datsun and ride off into the sunset

Fair trade has nouthing to do with racism

March 8, 2007 at 2:21 am
(490) steve says:

the usa is in debt to china for over a trillion{thats with a T}dollars!!

March 8, 2007 at 8:54 am
(491) Matt says:

The way I see it let them race, and look at it this way what better way to stick it to Toyota then to box them out and beat them at every race. If they never win then and waste all that money better for us right. Maybe the big three will make it known that you don’t come into our sport and beat us.

March 8, 2007 at 9:07 am
(492) dirtracer says:

Where are you Shane? I don’t know your question that you can’t seem to find an answer for. But here’s some question for you. How many people does gm and ford employ in your country?If gm and ford pulled out who would be there?What would happen to the encomy if they pulled out?Is it the poor quality of gm and ford products you purchase in the land down under,if so who does the assembly? Americans?I think the Pontiac g-6 or gto are some your products and and a show called autoline detroit with experts in the automotive industry as guest not just americans.Well lets get to the point when this pontiac was on the lot the comments were they were disappointed in the quality and fit and finish and I believe it was a car your fellow countrymen built what can I say.The apple don’t fall to far from the tree.How many space flights have the Aussies made ? Come over here and take a look at all the americans that live in poverty because of foregn trade.Half the crap made in asia comes here and gets reworked because of the shitty quality.Some of the parts I use on my race car come from where you live.No problems as of yet.I don’t look at you all as bad pepole but somebody like you might change my opinion.open your eyes and be real your just talkin that anti-american crap get over it.I don’t look at the people in your country as a bunch of asses I don’t know them and some day I would like to visit your world just to see what its like.Well its time to go do some more inferior work on some inferior american an asian vehicles later.

March 8, 2007 at 12:14 pm
(493) cufishing says:
March 8, 2007 at 11:05 pm
(494) Ryan says:

GM employes over twice as many employees as Toyota so SUPPORT AMERICA BUY AMERICAN GM FORD DODGE

March 9, 2007 at 12:51 am
(495) dead head says:

man. this got big fast

March 10, 2007 at 2:28 am
(496) steve says:

was woken up early recently.turned on speed channel.they were showing film from the 1972 michigan race!wow!real cars!real metal!not a hint of aerodynamics!426,429,charger,torino,monte carlo,cyclone!wow!metal got bent,but didnt fly off like paper mache{the aero fluff stuff of today}.cars were easily identifiable. they had character.they didnt slip thru the air;they punched a hole in it!!

March 10, 2007 at 8:12 pm
(497) dead head says:

well dude, another bad day for toyota.

March 11, 2007 at 12:04 pm
(498) socrates says:

I stumbled on this page while doing a research project on the Americanization of Toyota. I just have to say, in the greater picture of all things, why does it matter? If you want to continue to follow NASCAR, then go ahead. If not, then stop. Why do all of you have to impose your perspectives on other people? Americans = GOOD AND BAD, JAPANESE = GOOD AND BAD. It all equalizes. THEREFORE…Go hug your loved one and take a deep breath. In the end, it all doesn’t matter and it’s all the same. Right is Wrong. Wrong is Right. No Right then no Wrong. No Wrong then no Right. Take it easy… LOL =)

March 11, 2007 at 8:38 pm
(499) cufishing says:

My good fellow, wise is not thee that does not follow the path to enlightenment. Enlightenment thereby is only for those wise enough to follow the full path. Wise is not to thee that cannot see the obverse from the reverse. As the countless annuals here can attest, the tombs of many have already been sealed. The fate of many more is yet shrouded through obtuse insensibility.

A question to thee, oh user of the moniker which emanates such grandeur wisdom.

Hast thou read “the dialogues of Plato”?
If nay, then afore yee commit another travesty, do such with vast ambition.

If yea, then yee knows of wit; and yet yee knowingly discharges this persona with great defilement?

March 12, 2007 at 12:20 am
(500) American with a choice says:

I for one am sitting here reading many of these comments from one side, then the other. I sit here and wonder why a discussion about NASCAR became a debate about lifestyle, politics, and patriotism. I am republican. I have not been in the service. I am a student. My father was in the army, my grandfather in the army, and two cousins in Iraq, as well as a good friend. WWII is over. We won. We also killed countless more Japanese than they killed Americans. Fat Man and Little Boy took care of that. As far as NASCAR is concerned: I do not watch it. The thought of watching a bunch of cars take a left turn until somebody does it a thousand times does not appeal to me. However, since stumbling on to this site, thanks to my NASCAR-loving girlfriend, I have decided to change my mind. I will support Toyota because the ignorant people who dislike Toyota have some of the worst arguments, not to mention the foulest things to say. I am 19-years-old. I am now on my second car, a 2005 Chevy Cavalier. It sucks. I’m lucky to get 25 mpg. My last car, Ford Contour, replaced the transmission at 130,000 miles, replaced the starter 3 times, and finally had to get rid of it after a head gasket blew. However, my girlfriend drives a 2005 Corolla, gets 40+ mpg, and has not had to take it in to get anything fixed. Her family also had a Toyota truck for 13 years before selling it not too long ago. It had all original parts in it.

As far as Toyota opening a plant here in the US, I say let them. It employs AMERICANS. It does not import Japanese workers does it? If you say they do I want proof. Who cares if it is in sales? They are still Americans holding jobs. If you want to get angry at somebody, which I know you are not happy unless you have somebody to point a finger at, then take it up with the “American” big 3. Mexico, Canada, UK, etc., all manufacture, assemble, or export “American” cars. I know some of you out there have your panties in a bunch about the whole issue. “The Japanese are invading!” This kind of sentiment will not fly in the new world. Eventually, there will not be Americans, Japanese, British, German, etc. It will be one world nation. We will all be people. We will all have the same rights, and the same needs. I agree that maybe some things should not be tampered with, but has anybody suggested a new racing sport? How about we revert to the original stock cars of old in NASCAR, and make a new sport for the current NASCAR. Then the older fans can have their nostalgia, and the newer fans can have the competition.

That is another thing. I see all of these people defending the American products. If the American products are so good, why is Toyota becoming a giant name? If the big 3 were to step up to the plate and increase quality, while decreasing price, they would not be in the shitter. It takes about 3 people to assemble a Toyota while Gm requires 7-9. That means each GM has to pay more people. More people mean higher prices. Toyota also has a better quality product. The fact is that competition is the basis of a free-market economy, which by the way we are a part of. Do you really think Toyota would be as big as it is if the big 3 would put up a fight? Hell no! If they would stop outsourcing maybe they would employ even more Americans. Instead they pay Canadians and Mexicans to build an “American” vehicle. I’m disgusted by those of you who are “proud to be an American. and I’m a republican so I’m right. and everyone who opposes me is gay.” It is people like you who make me ashamed to be an American sometimes. However, it is you right to say it, whether it may be ignorant. Dare I say a dictionary might do some of you some good? I noticed most of the opposition to Toyota, except those from across the pond, have the worst grammar/spelling I have ever seen. Get an education and maybe it will open your eyes to the world around you. NASCAR is not the world and the world is not NASCAR. What applies to one does not have to apply to the other.

Thank you for making my interest in NASCAR. Hope to see the Toyota at the finish line… then the Fords, Chevys, etc. miles behind.

March 12, 2007 at 11:43 am
(501) NASCAR_SUCKS says:

i would just like to say that now that toyota is better that any american car there is or will ever be. and that nascar is the most idiotic sport ever “lets go 400 miles in a circle only turning left and use technology from the 80s” lol

March 12, 2007 at 1:43 pm
(502) dead head says:

wow dude. what an idiot. why are you here if you hate nascar man. no one cares what you say. and the technolegy is not from the 80s. if anything its more advanced than the tech that goes into street cars. them race cars are bullet proof. not to mention how reliable they are. them 400 are tough on the engine when they red line the engine pretty much the whole race. thats quality man. and carbs arent old school, they mean performance. same with push rods. them overhead cams are too wimpy for 850 horsepower.

March 12, 2007 at 3:29 pm
(503) dave says:

I dont mind Toyota running NASCAR. What I mind is that NASCAR let Toyota design an engine from scratch to race. Toyota had never produced a pushrod V8 engine for their cars yet they got to build what ever they wanted. While at the same time, Ford produces cylinder heads that you can buy in their racing catalog that NASCAR has ruled as illegal. It just seems that Toyota has been given an unfair advantage over the other players.

March 12, 2007 at 6:59 pm
(504) True racer says:

yhea “dead head” the tech is from the 80s might want to learn a bit before you post but i agree if you hate nascar you shouldnt be here

March 12, 2007 at 10:24 pm
(505) dead head says:

you must not know what goes into them cars. maybe you should learn. i dont know every thing about that but i do know the them parts have alot more tech than they did in the 80s. the only reason they dont use carbs is the power to gas ratio. they know whats better. fuel injection is complex to use because it takes too much power and adds weight. i used to drag when i was younger and have some clue about racing and weight problems. what makes you a true racer. plus, too much to trouble shoot at the track.

March 13, 2007 at 9:50 am
(506) Jhon220 says:

mabey the technology aint from the 80s but talk about global warming

March 13, 2007 at 12:47 pm
(507) American with a choice says:

Regardless of what era the technology comes from, that fact is that America is not one culture. It is comprised of many cultures. Ask anybody what American culture is and you will get a different answer each time. So why not let Toyota in? Youre afraid to lose to someone who is different. That in itself is ignorant. That in itself is racist. And racists are the scum of the earth.

March 13, 2007 at 8:31 pm
(508) dead head says:

people who dont like nascar, LEAVE!!! we are here to defend our sport and some are here to make it worse for others. go back to myspace because all your looking for is to get attention and cause trouble. we here because we want to show our sides and why toyota is good or bad. maybe we should start a private chat room and kick out people(childern) who dont belong. its sad that these people will soon run this country. RESPECT FOR OTHERS!!!

March 13, 2007 at 8:42 pm
(509) dead head says:

at least someone other than me can see through him and his poor attempt at fitting in.

March 13, 2007 at 8:42 pm
(510) Patricia says:

#577 American with a choice:
Why do you need to bring up the fact that so many of your family members have served (oh, and a friend of yours too!!). So it looks like you are a hero by association?
And you are a Republican? Loving Toyota Republican? Let me puke…
Toyota is getting killed in Nascar. Next, when they become the number one car company in the world, let the backslash begin. Death to Toyota

March 13, 2007 at 8:54 pm
(511) dead head says:

leave it up to you to save the day. you must have a 160 iq or something. wish i was as smart as you.(im not being a smart a*s either)

March 13, 2007 at 10:52 pm
(512) American with a choice says:

First of all, show me why theyre stealing jobs when AMERICAN COMPANIES are outsourcing. Second of all, way to attack a person’s character rather than theyre argument. AND I have just as much of a right to be here as you do. You said it yourself dead head “we here because we want to show our sides and why toyota is good or bad.” How do you have both sides when youre trying to squash the opposition? How ignorant can an argument get when you only have one side? AND the reason i included all of that about my family in the service is because many of the earlier comments were talking about how “you werent even in the service so you dont have an opinion.” ok well i will be going into the service. Its people like you who give the real Americans a bad name. You are the ignorant few who give the open-minded masses a bad name. Lest you forget, this country was founded by immigrants and foreigners. How many of you can say you arent descended from immigrants. I say Toyota has as much a right to stay here in the US as you do. So if you want to point fingers, point them at Ford, GM, and Dodge. You can support them and criticize at the same time. Its called comsumer feedback. Use it.

March 14, 2007 at 7:32 am
(513) dirtracer says:

A question for all.Toyota started building full size trucks i think in the mid nineties why haven’t they knocked Ford from the top sales spot on trucks??? They’ve had over 10 years to do so.Thers is a handful of Toyota full size trucks in the area I live in with 10+ years on the market.lol, Where do you think the profits go? As for all the people they employ they = a buisness exspence you know write off.I work on cars and trucks for a living I don’t do much import work.It gets old to have to remove these micro bolts they use that break off super easy.The shank is usally corroded in the piece they hold on.Oh yea don’t youall remember all the custom older toyotas that you see at the car shows .like the 34 fords or old chevies.Nuff said

March 14, 2007 at 4:34 pm
(514) Bla Bla Bla says:

American with a choice uses all the excuses and the 15 million plus immigrants and foreigners are a burden on us now and don’t even try and speak our language but use our schools and free medical. While sending most of the money back home to bring more here

Get real it’s not the 30′s and ther is no free trade now

March 14, 2007 at 5:49 pm
(515) dead head says:

how old are you “American” with a choice? 19? you havent been around long enough to know the truth. American company export jobs because when people buy forgien it takes money away from the big 3. it adds up over time. so when we lose our jobs, they send theirs over here. wouldnt it make sense to buy American and keep our jobs here so the profit stays here. sure,toyota puts jobs here,but the companys forgien. its a trade, but bad for the economy.why cant you see that?by the way, im 43.

March 14, 2007 at 8:08 pm
(516) American with a choice says:

As far as trucks, Toyota may not make the best. Who cares. Im not arguing trucks. And as far as sending companies to other countries, why do you think people started buying foreign to begin with? QUALITY. Pure and simple. As for the “excuses” im using, IT is the TRUTH. They make better vehicles, (trucks excluded?) and so they have as much right to be here as anyone. And by the way, i was talking about LEGAL immigrants. The fucking illegals can leave for all i care. Build the fence and shoot them if they cross. Legal immigrants dont burden the US.

March 14, 2007 at 8:51 pm
(517) Southern Girl says:

So what if toyota joins nascar? It’s more competition, more money, more promotion, and more people watching this sport and possibly supporting Nascar in the end therefore gaining more support in America than it already has. I’m saying that when something new that is untraditional is brought to a sport, it catches attention and therefore creates controversy.

The Camry is fair game due to the location of the manufacturing company based in Georgetown, Kentucky, USA; Altona, Victoria, Austrailia, and Toyota City, Japan. The American Ford Fusion is produced by the Ford Motor Company and is manufactured at Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly plant in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico (which is also where the Mercury Milan and the Lincoln MKZ is built). The Chevy Monte Carlo is an American car assembled in Arlington Assembly in Arlington, Texas and Oshawa Car Assembly in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.

On this site, I have read comments stating that Toyota is stealing jobs away from Americans. What about Ford? They are America’s vehicle’s right? So why are most of them assembled outside of the U.S.? They’re holding other manufacturing companies in Canada, Mexico, United Kingdom, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Austrailia, and South Africa for their vehicles.

Toyota is the first non-USA based manufacturer to enter Nascar. By their rule book, it states that cars must be built in the USA to enter, but because the Camry is assembled in Kentucky, it qualifies as an American car; even though the car comes from a Japanese headquartered manufacturer.

In 2007, Toyota released its full size truck, the Toyota Tundra, produced in two American factories, one in Texas and one in Indiana. “Motor Trend” named the 2007 Toyota Camry “Car of the Year” for 2007. It also began the construction of a new factory to build the Toyota Highlander in Mississippi. How is Toyota not an American car if it is ASSEMBLED in America by AMERICANS.

This is my opinion. Take it or leave it alone. Toyota is in or not, i’ll still watch nascar because i like it.

March 14, 2007 at 10:18 pm
(518) Who really cares says:

Alright, I have read the comments on here and I must say I am greatly depressed by the illiteracy in the arguements. Some of these arguements aren’t even valid. Some of you can actually give specific reasons, however, others just insult others and don’t really take the time to research the facts. The two most intelligent comments I have read have come from “American with a choice” and “Southern Girl”. That being said, I believe that some comments have been said that should have been heeded.
First of all, Toyota is made in America, the big 3 are made elsewhere. Toyota employs Americans. The big 3 employ those that are in the countries they are stationed in. Secondly, this country was founded by immigrants. It was founded by ideas of those outside the country. How dare anybody say that Toyota has no rights here? It is ludicrous to believe that since they are Japanese they are not allowed to be in Nascar. The cars that are made by Toyota that are in Nascar are made here in the United States. That gives them every right to be there. Not giving them this right is like saying that if you were born in the United States, you do not get citizenship.
That being said, I am in full support of Toyota and I believe that they deserve every right to be in Nascar as every other car there, since they are made in America, by AMERICANS.

March 14, 2007 at 10:27 pm
(519) dead head says:

once again. WHEN YOU BUY FORGIEN, NO MONEY GOES TO GM, FORD OR DODGE. THEREFORE THEY SEND JOBS OVERSEAS BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD TO PAY THE HIGH WAGES IN AMERICA. then toyota sends jobs here. while they do pay wages, the rest goes to japan. it is a trade, but a senseless one. only part of the money stays here, why not let it all stay here. but we have to make a change first and get our jobs back.then we have to get people to buy from the big 3.

March 14, 2007 at 10:35 pm
(520) American with a choice says:

Ok you are not seeing MY point. QUALITY drove sales down for GM, ford and dodge. Poor quality=less sales. High quality=high sales. Do you get it now or do i have to dumb it down some more? GM ford and dodge are stuck on the whole suv fad and less people are buying. Theyre products are inferior and cost more than toyota.

March 14, 2007 at 10:36 pm
(521) Xavier says:

“WHEN YOU BUY FORGIEN, NO MONEY GOES TO GM, FORD OR DODGE. THEREFORE THEY SEND JOBS OVERSEAS BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD TO PAY THE HIGH WAGES IN AMERICA.” hey dead head, do you have any sources to support your claim? as in online source, perhaps? Because, all in all, you could jus be sayin a bunch of bull as all of these other people on this forum.

March 14, 2007 at 10:46 pm
(522) dead head says:

no, but it is common knowledge. and im sure its not to hard to find some either. think about it, if you dont buy a goodyear tire, but instead toyo, does goodyear profit from that sale? is it really that hard to get?

March 14, 2007 at 10:50 pm
(523) American with a choice says:

I dont think thats what xavier meant. I think it was meant more like “THEREFORE THEY SEND JOBS OVERSEAS BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD TO PAY THE HIGH WAGES IN AMERICA.” Do you have any sources to prove thats why they go overseas? Or is it just because theyre cheaping out on labor?

March 14, 2007 at 11:55 pm
(524) NASCAR_SUCKS says:

My bad i left out some smart people. “American with a choice” and “Who really cares”…American with a choice couldnt agree with you more about racist people being the scum of the earth

March 15, 2007 at 12:04 am
(525) dead head says:

yeah, but they say their (trucks?) are so fast. huh, you dont like when everyone sees what you are. so, in you as usual child like ways, you turn to violent language. then you trick yourself to belive we are jokes. all because you cant stand it when someone voices their opinion that isnt the same as yours. to the rest of the adults, why do people make jokes of this site? (comment 604)

March 15, 2007 at 12:13 am
(526) dead head says:

you saing that makes you a racist. or are you special and you dont count?

March 15, 2007 at 12:16 am
(527) NASCAR_SUCKS says:

and im raciest how?

March 15, 2007 at 12:34 am
(528) dead head says:

you saying that racists are the scum of the earth. you are racist against scum. bashing rednecks, that indirectly means you hate. so you are racist against rednecks. even though they are humans, they just live differantly. you must have the steriotype idea of a redneck. well, just another to add to the list of people that dont think others are normal if they arent like you.

March 15, 2007 at 12:36 am
(529) Southern Girl says:

To “Who Really Cares,” thank you for your generous comment.

March 15, 2007 at 1:01 am
(530) dead head says:

im not a red neck, and your childish comments have no affect on me. no wonder why this world is in the shape its in. people just dont act like their age. and if you want to play this game, i wont. i must be more mature than you. thats why your weak comebacks are no more than a pimple on my fat neighbors a*s.

March 15, 2007 at 1:24 am
(531) Peace Finder says:

I dont know what is wrong with all of you, but both sides represant valid points and back them up with all they have. What makes ones choosen side more right then the others? The fact that you care about what someone else thinks about you most likely drives it all. Who cares what they think about you? Why argue when you’ll never win? This applies to all in this forum. God bless and look to God in your time of uncertainty.

March 15, 2007 at 9:41 am
(532) The Aetheist says:

There are no times of uncertainty. Toyota IS in NASCAR!

Why DO YOU bring God into the mix?

Who is he?
Where is he?
Have you met him?
You evolved! Genetics and biological science prove this.
Where is your proof?

Stay on topic, or STAY AWAY!

March 15, 2007 at 10:48 am
(533) American with a choice says:

Whatever shape this world is in, it is because of the baby boomers. And as for the racist comments, who are you directing that toward dead head? Because my comments were not racist. Since when is scum a race? As for the redneck comments, i think of a redneck as an uneducated, ignorant fool who speaks out of his ass and does not try to better his views or try to support his side.

March 15, 2007 at 11:23 am
(534) dead head says:

you just say your an aetheist because he brought up god. you just wanted a reaction. why are these people so childish.

March 15, 2007 at 4:35 pm
(535) Kentucky Proud says:


You know who you are more excuses Southern girl LET OUR GOVERMENT PAY FOR HEALTHCARE FOR Ford.GM and see who gets kicked back to asia land

March 15, 2007 at 4:54 pm
(536) The Aetheist says:

ROFLMAO! Talk about childish! Are you seriously mentally ill? Or, are you just a homeless, jobless boozing bum?

WTF is a “ANTI CHRISTAN LEBERIALS” ? I’m typing this slow as I know you can’t read fast, but I need to ask. Is that redneck for Duh, I cant spell, but I’m gonna post anyway? Go plow a fricking field, or milk a cow, or chew some backy while riding your tractor!
My government rules a FREE land. Don’t like it? Move the Frick Out, and take your stupid, bare foot and drunk son with you!

March 15, 2007 at 5:01 pm
(537) Kentucky Proud says:

Must have struck a nerve. The Aetheist chats like a child and likes name calling. (So Sad) When we take our country back you might have to move. Bet he or rather it is from the North No manners !!!

March 15, 2007 at 5:50 pm
(538) The Aetheist says:

I bet the fellas down to the barber shop really get a good kick out of the likes of you two.

“When we”. WTF? You ain’t done jack or shiite, except drove us completely into debt. Why do you think we owe China so fricking much money? Boy-George is the turd of the ‘publican party, and he ain’t even bright enough to realize it! That is what’s sad. Even sadder, is there are people who think he is capable! You do have one viable point. When we take back the country in 08, you dumbass’ might have to move. If you look at the atlas, you’ll notice Tennessee is SOUTH of Da’Ville, and we are proud of our residential former Vice President who was robbed by a crock back in 00!

FYI; I don’t live at home and my mother is no longer here. You can act big and tough, and post crap about how drunk you are, and all that. But at least have respect for others that are not here!

March 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
(539) The Aetheist says:

dead head, dude please. Take a moment to relook the last 100 -125 postings. People are humans, humans have their own intricate set of feelings and thoughts. You speak of childish people here making posts. Then you call me a name, a very low down and dirty name (mind you). I may wag my internet tongue, but it has boundries. I would never call anybody something as horrible as what you called me. At least if you are demanding respect from others, at least show a little yourself. I accept your apology and agree with you about mother jokes. But to call me what you did is not amusing belittling, or even degrading, it is flat out insulting. I would go as far as joining that “good ole boy” from Kentucky to kick a satinist’ ass, right here, right now, in a Ney York minute. You say you belive in God. That is great, truly whole heartadly great. But mind you, a satinist belives in the Devil, the arch nemisis of your beliefs. They practice the dark arts, and invoke things in their minds with drugs, and blood of animals. I will have nothing to do with any of it.

March 15, 2007 at 8:28 pm
(540) The Aetheist says:

Dammit, you got me so pissed I forgot to say, toyota is shiite.

BTW: I drive a Chevy Tahoe. You may have seen it, it’s Red, White, & Blue, tinted windows, chrome wheels, kick ass stainless steel dual exhaust. But it’s the rear window that gets everybodys attention.

“Clinton liked hummers,
Bush destroys hummers,
Impeach Bush”

March 15, 2007 at 8:46 pm
(541) dead head says:

alright dude, no more jokes or smarta*s remarks. i had you wrong. go chevys.

March 15, 2007 at 8:55 pm
(542) Kentucky Proud says:

Sounds like your still mad about Kerry Edwards defeat too. You still have that sticker on your truck too.
You do have a male dominate problem and would make a rather good bully if others would let you.
Driving a Chevrolet is cool. But we cam clearly see you were never in the Service or you wouldn’t be so anti George.
Google your candidates and you’ll see what a liar Hillary is and the other want a be his middle name is Hussein. He just might be a muslin. Don’t have a problem with that but he’s a liar too. Good luck with your pro tax anti Christians.

You really going to be upset in 08 when we take back the Congress and the Senate and retain the White House.

March 15, 2007 at 9:30 pm
(543) The Aetheist says:

Kerry/Edwards -No! Maybe only the extreme left liberals in California would argue. I may dispies the current president, but at ‘that’ moment he was the lesser of two wrongs.

Show me a candidate, any candidate, that does not strecth, mold, bend or manipulate the truth.

What does my service obligation got to do with anything? Just about half of all field grades and above are Dems, only the enlisted are hard core Repubs. I would venture to wage that more than 85% of all flag ranks are Dems. But that is only clear as mud. I’ve got big enough balls to hold my own.

08 will be a telling time! It appears every candidate you guys bring forth has something to hawk about. I could see myself voting Rudi, however, with the latest connection of his law firm to chavez brings with it more turbulance.

Both houses, and the big house will increase/go Dem as the nation will go forth for a cleansing.

NASCAR offical standings, #50 Waltrip, -27 points. toyota has been real impressive, even with an undisclosed substance in the intake.
toyota is shiite.

March 15, 2007 at 9:51 pm
(544) dead head says:

im voting for hillary. she sees how unfair the “free” trade is. and if she turns out like bush then thats another liar. sometimes i wish gore would of won to see what he would of been like. we cant control what they do man. why cant they just be honest. too bad it costs so much because theres alot of nobodys that would lead us in the right direction. aetheist, do you live in new york? maybe i have seen you. i cant top that, but the wheels on my trailer havered, white and blue pinstripping on them. go chevy

March 15, 2007 at 9:57 pm
(545) Get Wise says:

She has to win the South and the Black vote. Google her she is the most hated women in America

She need s to go back to her carpet bagger roots

March 15, 2007 at 10:01 pm
(546) IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU says:

Women like Southern Girl is why i love my dog so much.


March 15, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(547) dead head says:

yeah but you just did what i do. why can you do it but not me? im defending myself and what i belive in. whats wrong with that?

March 15, 2007 at 10:30 pm
(548) mike l says:

well, i found out im shipping out back to iraq in 2 weeks. my hand healed and they need me back. them hummers arent gonna fix themselves. dead head, dont listen to them. the world only revolves around them(southern girl, get wise). but aetheist, do you like chevys as much as i do? theyre the best out there. in my opinion, i guess now you cant say something with out clealy stating its only your opinion. this forum is off topic so much now. everyone is picking at what ever someone says.lets get back on topic

March 15, 2007 at 10:47 pm
(549) dead head says:

mike dude. your back man. sucks for you man. have you seen how bad toyota has been doing. man, dw used talk about how great their gonna be, now he doesnt say anything about them. its not that bad with toyota in as i thought. you only hear aboutthem when they wreck or blow an engine. they only lead when the other cars pull into the pits. doesnt last long though. well now im gonna get hammered for what i said, even though if you watch the race youd know its the truth.

March 16, 2007 at 12:46 am
(550) Cusco says:

Will Toyota be able to Qualify without provisionals? I meant without cheating also.

March 16, 2007 at 8:15 am
(551) The Aetheist says:

Don’t know Bro. This is only my third vehicle, the first ever bought new. First rig was a hand me down 1/2 ton short bed Chevy, built back in 1977, before my time. That made it through HS and into post secondary school. Spun a bearing or some shiite, and Uncle Bob came and got it. Swapped it out with a 1994 Ford Explorer, first and last Ford, EVER! That made it through school and into the real world. Upon our return, took it home over furlough and gave it to my cousin. Spent the next two years on a third hand hog, then bought the Tahoe(new 05) new in 06, the same day my letter of resignation was submitted.

The ‘hollers’ of Tennesse is home. We have ridden through NY as a group of HAWG riders, the Tahoe did not make that trip.

You keep that fat head of yours down, wear your fricking helmet and armor and only one pass through the chow line. Semper Fi, Bro!

March 16, 2007 at 11:58 am
(552) JB says:

If NASCAR is allowing Toyota to enter their circuit is probably because the
American People have spoken. Toyota is one of the top auto sellers in this country, and no, is not all Japanese buying their cars. Is the American Public who are choosing the best value for their hard worked dollar.

March 16, 2007 at 6:33 pm
(553) Andy says:

Bring it on and race. Toyota, Honda, BMW, Benz, etc should all be in NASCAR. To be the best you need to beat the best.

March 16, 2007 at 8:54 pm
(554) bimmerboy says:

BMW 3 Series stock car racing sounds good to me.

March 16, 2007 at 9:54 pm
(555) Chevy Man says:

Because sometimes dead heads miss a beat. Then they miss a hit. Then all hell breaks loose. I like Chevys! Probably not the kind you are used to! But Chevys none the less. Do you like Chevys?

March 16, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(556) LizardKing says:

you too chevy man. you sound like a person that doesn’t let other cats boss you around

March 16, 2007 at 10:18 pm
(557) dead head says:

boozin good as well

March 16, 2007 at 10:24 pm
(558) LizardKing says:

i know i drink around 2 bottles of jack every day

March 16, 2007 at 10:29 pm
(559) Who really cares says:

This entire arguement is incredibly childish. All anyone is doing now is insulting others, not discussing logic about the fact that Toyota is in Nascar. Has anyone actually taken up action to prevent this? I mean anyone that is posting here. If you hate Toyota so fricking much, then do something about it. I have heard both sides and I support Toyota because our country was founded on freedoms. If you intend to call me childish, then I would like to ask you who the one insulting others is. Especially you “Dead head”. Please stop all of this childish blathering nad get back to the main point. Toyota is indeed in Nascar, and the way I see it, they will remain there for quite a while. Who is better and who is not does not matter anymore since they already have their foot in the door.

Once again, please stop this childish banter. By the way, stating that the south will take back the country is treason. Do you realize that? In this day and age, treason is a very severe crime. I suggest you watch what you say.

Just remember that we are all able to say what we want, how we want. Everyone has a valid point, however if they cannot back it up, it seems a little illogical to discuss it at all. Thank you.

March 16, 2007 at 10:32 pm
(560) LizardKing says:

dead head. i have a dionysis lifestyle witch meens i do every thing in exsece

March 16, 2007 at 10:33 pm
(561) dead head says:

dude, lets focus. we need to include nascar.

March 16, 2007 at 10:53 pm
(562) LizardKing says:

starting to crash got to go

March 16, 2007 at 10:57 pm
(563) Get Wise says:

It would seem there dead head after the tongue lashing you got from ‘The Aetheist’ and ‘Southern Girl’ you would have have wisened up a bit. Guess she really knows you can’t help yourself.

March 17, 2007 at 1:20 am
(564) Southern Girl says:

If Japan started their own version of NASCAR, Ford, Chevy, and Dodge would have to have each of their companies assembling cars in Japan to actually participate in the race. That’s how Toyota even had the right to join in the first place.

HAHA -> “[toyota's] waste gas…” When you’re not busy smokin pot, you should at least read how much gas they save compared to other small cars. Maybe other american small cars are better, but from what i’ve read and experienced, toyota saves a lot of gas = a lot of money.

Gawd, everything is a conspiracy! AHHH F*CK!

Again, if your so upset about this NASCAR situation, get off your ass, stop messaging on this site, and protest against NASCAR’s decision.

I’m still going to watch it cuz its not like ONE car company will make me upset and bitch at NASCAR.

March 17, 2007 at 1:25 am
(565) Southern Girl says:

This is interesting:

Toyota Cavalier (1995-2000) production.
Under agreement with GM, this car was entirely produced by GM in the US. The 3rd generation Chevy Cavalier model was sold to Toyota.


March 17, 2007 at 1:47 am
(566) Southern Girl says:


Link to prove that i wasn’t lying/making that up.

March 17, 2007 at 2:12 am
(567) Southern Girl says:

I agree with this sentence ->
“all i know is we need to stop the political talk…”

But these next sentences confuse me.. ->
“bet they wouldnt. because people dont see they are taking advantage of our stupid goverment officals and leaders…”

Why? I thought you wanted to stop the politcal talk! and that sentence just starts it all over again..

March 17, 2007 at 7:45 am
(568) What The Heck? says:

Alright dead head, way to go dude. Must have been some pretty good experimental hallucinogens you were on. Would that have happened to be “The Lizard King” you were chatting with?

Dude. LEAVE! Go elsewhere and post your crap. Or as pointed out, get off your ass and do something. Either way, just LEAVE this site!

March 17, 2007 at 8:27 am
(569) The Aetheist says:

dead head, WTF dude? You called me a terrible name. A name that is so chaotic, and so horrid, that visions of grotesque visages filled my dreams. Time off station was needed to prevent any further dialogue. Is this the presence of your true being? WTF is wrong with you?

Here you are, raising the dead and carrying on a two dimensional conversation with them. That is satanic dude! Totally and unquestionably satanic! You speak of believing in God; however, your ramblings prove otherwise. Are you sick dude? Do you need help? WTF Dude?

March 17, 2007 at 9:59 am
(570) dead heads lair says:

dead head has recently been located working from his trailer.

March 17, 2007 at 12:18 pm
(571) Todd W says:

just don’t feel Toyota has earned a place in NASCAR (even though they have the best selling sedans in the country right now). You would think it would go to Pontiac, Buick, or even Cadillac before it would Toyota, or God forbid a ‘Honda’ which I have even heard rumors of wanting to enter into the ranks.

For example, suppose Japan had it’s own domesticated ‘NASCAR’ brand series (Fuel injected, FWD sixes on oval circuits) Sort of a stretch to consider (But not really). Imagine now Ford wanting in on the action, only wanting to field their RWD, V8 Mustang.

Then for the purposes of competition over there (or to ‘fit the mold’), Ford created a carbon copy of the V-Tech six , along with a FWD layout beneath a Mustang shell…The Japanese would be screaming Murder…And the Ford fans (unlike the Toyota faithful here) would be diving out of windows over it.

Honestly I think Toyota’s stay in NASCAR won’t exceed a decade if that. Once the recent popularity spike starts to drop off, Toyota will be packing. Toyota simply bought their way into NASCAR because of it’s recent popularity. The whole point again is nobody should be allowed to buy their way into an American institution a lot of Americans, like it or not, feel is sacred to a certain degree. Simple as that.

March 17, 2007 at 4:31 pm
(572) American with a choice says:

How legitimate is a debate where all the arguements against toyota, except yours of course, are “toyota suck, Bad car, They sucked in the race… etc.”? Really, the only ones in here that are debating about NASCAR anymore are you and southern girl. The rest turned it into a political debate, which in essence it kinda was to begin with. But yes it should be about NASCAR.

March 17, 2007 at 5:03 pm
(573) dead head says:

i will gladly take back what i said about you, but if you look through this entire forum youll see comments like that. that was another poor comment again. but i will stand my ground and i will not be told that i souldnt be aloud here because of what i say and do while everyone else here is doing just what im doing, but they defend the otherside. or with the exception of a few people.

March 17, 2007 at 5:12 pm
(574) Todd W says:

To Southerngal who isn’t understanding even the concept of a discussion of this type –

What does ‘legally’ have to do with any of it? Legally NASCAR as a sanctioning body can do whatever it wants; It could start racing stripped down Yugo’s if it wanted to.

This isn’t a criminal matter were discussing here, hence the title ‘Is Toyota ruining NASCAR for you?’ For me it does to a certain extent, and if you would bother to read my initial back to back posts above (and ignore the squabble which your only furthering) — you would understand why. NASCAR is an American institution; A formula!…That is based on American engineering! Those aren’t Toyota’s running around the track…Those are lavish copies of American midsize ‘muscle cars’ wearing a stuck on Toyota front end decal. Get your crap together, nothing on those Camry’s is Japanese — it’s American!…And it’s a blatant rip off of American engineering to further their own image (or to fit it) — period!

Perhaps if Toyota at least took that ‘I’ force V8 (or whatever it’s called) out of the Tundra, fitted it into a midsize (or even full size) shell with the rear wheels driving it — then it would at least appear to myself that they are serious to some extent to fit the NASCAR ‘mold’, which obviously they aren’t. So they should get out because THEY HAVE NO HISTORY WHATSOEVER WITH V8, RWD’S!!!!

Domestic brands do; We wrote the book on them!!!

March 17, 2007 at 5:18 pm
(575) dead head says:

hey guy that wants me banned, i am not going to leave. so stop asking me to. read closer, most of them have something to do with nascar or a subtopic.

March 17, 2007 at 5:37 pm
(576) Todd W says:

Doesn’t matter, the whole point is Toyota shouldn’t even hold a place in NASCAR. It’s not even a valid argument; It’s just a fact….And it’s obvious since the morons attempting to make some sort of argument in support of Toyota, can’t even counter a single thing I have typed down.

Don’t forget to sign the petition while you’re at it.


March 17, 2007 at 5:42 pm
(577) dead head says:

as you are attacking me and my ways.

March 17, 2007 at 5:46 pm
(578) Southern Girl says:

When i said “legally” i was talking about how the camry is built in america so it has a right to enter the race being an american car even though it has a foreign name. That’s the only thing i meant when i said legally. Sorry for the confusion. Todd W, im not saying that your argument is bad or anything. I got it.


^ there’s an interesting toyota/nascar article.

To answer the message board’s title: Toyota in Nascar doesn’t bother me because its more competition. I’m not saying that Toyota will kick American car ass, but Toyota in or not, it’s still a fun race to watch.

A Toyota camry winning a race, in my opinion, has a very small chance stastically. The race track is dominated with cars from Dodge/Ford/Chevy which means that American cars have more of a chance to win than Toyota since they are seriously outnumbered by the number of teams. This doesn’t mean that they won’t have that slim chance of a win SOMETIME. I’m not sayin that’s going to happen anytime soon (the toyota racing team is like a baby right now) but someday it will.

Yea, toyota is foreign and doesn’t follow an american tradition, but things change and NASCAR accepted it under their rules / regulations. So we’re just gonna have to deal with it.
Oh well…

March 17, 2007 at 5:49 pm
(579) Ban dead head says:

Well Todd, your content is a little lacking. A long ways up the post list a fellow by the handle of cufishing posted some NASCAR history. It appears that the early days were not all American cars, that in fact there were all sorts of cars involved. Clearly that busted the myth about All American, and only American made etc.

However, to me toyota is not an American product, and just because they have a plant here does not make them an American compnay. Furthermore, toyota will not ruin NASCAR for me, it will just help me make better decisions. Instead of ordering Dominios on race day, I order Papa Johns. Instead of NAPA, I goto Federated Parts. I now ship FED-EX.

March 17, 2007 at 5:53 pm
(580) Southern Girl says:

Maybe NASCAR wanted a change? Is that so scary?

March 17, 2007 at 6:08 pm
(581) dead head says:

todd, i signed the petition. and i sent it to everyone in my address book.

March 17, 2007 at 6:28 pm
(582) Todd W says:

Thanks Dead head : )

Hey southerngal, why don’t you just post everything under one name? That’s what I’m doing…hell I’m even using my real name!!!

As far as foreign cars in early NASCAR (which would in the forties!!!)

You know, I didn’t know there were many foreign makes dirt tracking in the south in the early days of NASCAR; Get your crap together!!! …And what the hell are you quoting some poster for now, that you happened to read over a million threads ago before you started your bullsh*t anyway?

It’s obvious you don’t know a damned thing about cars, so obviously; You don’t even know what in the hell your talking about. The point isn’t wether or not your going to order a pizza from Dominoes ‘Southerngal’

…The point is those rear wheel drive Toyota’s…that are running an over head valve V8 (which GM helped them design in California!)…being fed through an American designed 4 bbl carb, turning gears in a Ford rear end, being ignited by an MSD ignition (yes American)…we invented that too…way back in the sixties (only then it was referred to as ‘T.I’ or a transistorized ignition that could rev an engine at 10 rpm all day even in 1970!!)

…The point is again

….Nothing on the cars is Toyota; It’s a combo of Ford and Chevy. The only thing Toyota about it is the peel off stickers that look like Camry headlights. The Toyota of NASCAR should be refereed to as something else. Like those Canadian MoPars of the 50′s that used front clips from Dodges, on Plymouth bodies — ‘Plodges’ they were called.

Don’t quote some idiot to me that you can’t even properly quote in the first place. At least give somebody that half knows what in the hell they are talking about make a post.

March 17, 2007 at 6:52 pm
(583) Ban dead head says:

~ToddW, don’t be so easily confused. I and Southern Girl are not one in the same.

So you are now saying people can’t have an opinion unless it only revolves around you and dead head? (sad)

I pointed that post out to enlighten you. However, you are showing signs of narrow mindedness. If you were to have taken a moment to have reviewed that, or any other NASCAR history for that matter, you might have learned something. And IIRC it was the fifties, and not the forties when Jaguar, Porsche and what have you raced in the NASCAR events. But somebody of your grand tenure would have already known that right?

Though your current analogy of NASCAR is pretty spot on; All of the current cars are the exact same, minus the driver, pit crews, owners, and sponsors. Hell even JJ would have a hard time getting an advantage with this plastic replicas.

March 17, 2007 at 6:55 pm
(584) dead head says:

they should make it real stock car racing and then people will see the truth about toyotas. under powered and over rated. todd, you forgot to mention the bodys of the cars which are regulated by nascar. not even close to a camry.

March 17, 2007 at 7:22 pm
(585) NE Man says:

So if all the cars are the same, how can you compare the camry to everything else and criticize it? If it were still true stock car racing, it would be more fair to criticize. And as for dead head and his off topic posting, you havent shown one bit of proof for your arguements. as for the attack on southern girl with the term “legally,” the context was in NASCAR rules. By their rules, it is legally eligible.

March 17, 2007 at 7:29 pm
(586) Ban dead head says:

If you re-look post #680, you will see some examples. Then backwards read any of the 26 postings down 100, or more if that is not enough, that should satisfy your curiosity.

I had to block this page from my son because of dead heads postings.

March 17, 2007 at 7:30 pm
(587) dead head says:

ban dead head, now you are dismissing what everone else says. so now the world revolves around you? you are the narrow mimded one. how come your right and every one else is wrong? we can say what we think and you say what you think.

March 17, 2007 at 8:22 pm
(588) Todd W says:

NASCAR is RWD, under 6 litre, OHC, V8′s right now (has been for a loooong time). The rare instances of Porsche in IROC in the seventies, or Jag at some rare event when James Dean was alive doesn’t even enter into the discussion here. Regardless, NASCAR is of an American layout…and has been since it’s inception; American, i.e. ‘National’ ‘domestic’ autos…

Especially it’s modern evolution to where the ‘stock’ car layout is purposely of American origin.

Allowing Toyota into NASCAR is a bit like this concept — Take the miss America pageant. Like NASCAR it’s an American competition…Only there are guidelines to it.

A. You must be a female (and have a vagina)
B. You have to partake in the competition by wearing the swim suits, and dresses, etc.

Now suppose some Japanese guy was allowed to enter into the competition to be miss America. Now he’s had the ‘change’ (So he’s got the vagina) , can wiggle into a swim suit, so what’s the big deal right? I’m sure you would argue for that as well. In fact, I can see ‘Southerngal’ sticking up for such ideology already….Here’s what she’d say –

“I see nothing wrong with this transsexual having a shot at being miss America. Only a close minded individual like yourself Mr. Todd, would be so afraid to accept such a radical (and welcomed) change to the miss America pageant. Why I’d be happy to have this transsexual as my miss America.”

Well I wouldn’t ‘Southerngal’ because like Toyota in NASCAR; a Japanese transsexual has no place in the cockamamie miss America pageant!!!!!

March 17, 2007 at 9:17 pm
(589) Ban dead head says:

“Al Keller (April 11, 1920 Alexander, New York – November 19, 1961 Phoenix, Arizona) was an American racecar driver.

Keller participated in the NASCAR “Strictly Stock”/”Grand National” (predecessors to the current NEXTEL Cup) series from 1949 to 1956 with 29 career starts. He won two races during the 1954 season and is the only driver in the history of NASCAR’s top division to have won a race in a foreign-built car, winning the 1954 Grand National road-race at the Linden Airport in New Jersey, driving a Jaguar”.

March 17, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(590) dead head says:

yeah, but notice how the forgien cars all are gone,where gone. and now there back and cant even give the chevys, fords and dodges a run for their money. they waste gas having them in nascar.

March 17, 2007 at 10:01 pm
(591) Todd W says:

Still not getting ‘it’ I see. There’s a big difference there…and do you know what it is??

That Jaguar in 1954 was….a Jaguar!! They didn’t load the Jag on a boat, and when it got over here had it retro fitted with a carbon copy of an Oldsmobile motor, and Ford rear end, Ford floor pan, and GM suspension wearing a Jag body now did they??

That’s grasping at straws and you know it. The cars back then were essentially ‘stock’

And the ‘Jags’ back then were intended for road racing (hence road course). NASCAR evolved from dirt ovals strictly running American built V8′s. That’s a pretty far reaching, and lame attempt to justify that it’s alright somehow for a Toyota to compete in an American sport, and in order to do it — copy the 40 yr old design of an American automobile. Embarrassing really.

If Toyota wanted to race on oval circuits (termed stock car) — They could have at least started their own that follows their own ‘performance’ formula; FWD, turbo charged sixes. Problem is most people don’t really understand the achievements of the American automobile, or they would hold more pride in it when it comes to such matters.

Those engines that are sitting in the current NASCAR Chevrolets are of a 52 year old design!! The small block Chevrolet was so perfect when introduced in 1955; That they are still running it….and it is still winning! 750 hp, off of an iron block introduced in the fifties!! No turbo’s, no super charger, no N2o — just a proven, reliable, essentially perfect engine, that is of American origin!

When you copy that design, and attempt to cover it in a Toyota body; Yes, it is bound to piss a lot of Americans who know better off. I know it does me, and if you live in this country (and have a bit of pride in past American industry) it should you too…But obviously you are too stupid to realize it, and are making your argument simply because you are making payments on the Toyota in your driveway, and want to see the family Camry (you wish anyway) running around Daytona.

My advice to you is to sell your bland Camry, and with a quarter of the payments — buy yourself an early seventies Chevy truck with a worn out 350. Get up off your lazy ass and go pull that motor out (it isn’t hard to do, under ten bolts — you would be amazed) order yourself a GM crate 383 (you will still have cash left over) drop that motor, find a nice turbo 400 trans (which is practically bulletproof)…head out on the street, and at 30 mph punch that accelerator down…You will never want to sit in another Toyota again, I promise you.

March 17, 2007 at 10:22 pm
(592) Ban dead head says:

Your opening in post #692 speaks volumes of you. My reference in post #694 must have struck a nerve. It appears your nice long post #696 sums it all up. I don’t have a camry, or any other foreign vehicle. I do drive a truck. But it’s a Ford truck. Not sure who you think you are trying to irritate here, but I have no qualms with you. But it appears you have some serious issues, and you are clueless as to who or how to unload them on (sad).

What about the Porsches that raced in The International 200 at Langhorne, Pennsylvania, June 21, 1953? I’m sure you have a story to tell about that too.

Go ahead get your last word in.

March 17, 2007 at 11:46 pm
(593) NE Man says:

Again, i have to ask. If all the cars are meant to be the same, why does it matter? If NASCAR has such strict guidelines as to the vehicles on its courses, then why does it matter to have another one? In essence it isnt the car you dont want there, it is the extra competition. What if toyota gets better? Hell, what if toyota wins? How would that bash your ego if your racer goes down? AND if toyota isnt winning, does it affect how your American driver drives? Does it affect their standing in the race? Will it really make that much difference to beat one more car? Suppose they dont get better? All it is is one more person your driver has to beat. And if that is so, then it wont be much of a challenge. BUT if they win, it makes the challenge better and more interesting.

March 17, 2007 at 11:58 pm
(594) Todd W says:

I forgot all about the Porches that ran at Langhorne. In fact, that must justify the whole Toyota argument were having here 50 plus years later. Because I’m sure those were just Porsche bodies with Ford motors, and suspensions underneath em…Just like the Toyota’s of today right?

I don’t think so — that was a rare event, (one on a track that doesn’t even exist anymore) — and furthermore, doesn’t reinforce your point (which you haven’t even made yet) whatsoever.

The sport was barely gaining ground in 1954 for Christ sake. The majority of the cars didn’t even have roll cages, or window nets installed. It was evolving, and Porsche has had no impact on the evolution of it whatsoever.

The bottom line is Toyota is in NASCAR only by name. Nothing on their own race cars (engine, trans, rear end, rear end pump, radiator, fuel cell, fuel pump, carburetor, suspension layout, wheel spacers, ignition, brakes, and the friggin tires themselves) are of their own product…

So how can you offer me a few rare instances of true stock bodied Porsches, (that ran in the fifties no less) — as some kind of valid argument to make it okay for Toyota to not only buy it’s way into NASCAR, but copy the engineering of it’s own competitors just to compete with them? Two totally different subjects there, and any other ‘foreign’ ,make to run in NASCAR in the past ran what they built. That’s the big difference, and obvious one that you don’t want to acknowledge; just because it is so obvious that it’s a no brainer.

March 18, 2007 at 12:09 am
(595) Todd W says:

No see N E man….

When Toyota came in — they didn’t even have a NASCAR type V8 to stuff into their cars. So what they got was essentially a clean slate to work from. They borrowed engineers from GM to design their V8 at some hi tech lab in Irvine Ca.

So actually it could be looked at as them at an advantage. Because they are allowed to essentially build a band new ‘American’ small block, and use years of testing, information, and development suffered at the hands of their own competitors. Pretty lame huh?

March 18, 2007 at 12:28 am
(596) NE Man says:

So what your saying is, because they borrowed engineers, and GM allowed them to do so, as well as NASCAR, they shouldnt be allowed to race? So what your saying is, the competition might be too great? What your saying is you dont wanna see another car company that is there by name to win your event? IF they are only there by name, then why does it matter what name they are flying under? What does it matter. A name is just a name. No matter how you say it.

March 18, 2007 at 12:30 am
(597) Ban dead head says:

Show me where I said it’s okay for toyota to be in NASCAR. I merely said it would not ruin it for me. And I would make better decisions because of it.

But I will remind you of a few things:

Post 686:
“Todd W says:
March 17, 2007 at 6:28 pm
You know, I didn’t know there were many foreign makes dirt tracking in the south in the early days of NASCAR; ”

Don’t overlook post 692
“Todd W says:
March 17, 2007 at 8:22 pm
NASCAR is RWD, under 6 litre, OHC, V8’s right now (has been for a loooong time). The rare instances of Porsche in IROC in the seventies, or Jag at some rare event when James Dean was alive doesn’t even enter into the discussion here. Regardless, NASCAR is of an American layout…and has been since it’s inception; American, i.e. ‘National’ ‘domestic’ autos…”

It’s a shame really for all of that NASCAR trivia you posted to just be puffed into thin air. One might have thought with all that knowledge you show that you could have at least researched NASCAR history. And that you actually read what other people posted. (sad) Is the day for it all to blow across the desert like dust in the wind.

Go ahead you can’t make it without the last word.

March 18, 2007 at 12:35 am
(598) dead head says:

they have a toyota sticker on them, thats the differance. and look at the honda ridgeline, they “borrowed” the design from the chevy avalance.

March 18, 2007 at 12:53 am
(599) NE Man says:

Nobody is talking about trucks. THAT is off topic. Dont be a hypocrite.

March 18, 2007 at 1:12 am
(600) dead head says:

yes it is slightly off topic, but it is an example of how they just copy us and claim to be the best. so it has some relevancy to the topic. they being forgien auto makers.

March 18, 2007 at 1:28 am
(601) NE Man says:

Regardless of whether they are foreign, regardless of whether they claim their own technology or someone elses, they are in NASCAR and they have a fair shot at it. They have the right, under NASCAR rules, to race. And if you dont like it dont watch, because im sure NASCAR wont care. The competition will be better in the next few years and i expect to see a toyota winning in the next couple of years. If not, then ill be wrong. Doesnt matter to me that they are in it. Just makes it that much more interesting.

March 18, 2007 at 1:29 am
(602) Who really cares says:

Must I always come in to comment on how off topic everyone is getting. The initial topic was to discuss whether or not Toyota should be in Nascar. From what I have read, I still support Toyota, however I must give credit where it is due. “Todd W”, your posts are in fact very intelligent and I commend you on that, however the real issue i have with them is that you are denying the facts that other present to you. The fact is, maybe Toyota was in the races long ago, but that changed. That is clear proof that times change and so do rules and regulations.

One of the real issues that I believe people are having is that if a Toyota car were to compete and gain victory, then fans would steadily switch over to Toyota, causing more money to pour into Japan. This will become an issue, however, debating about it will not solve it. What will solve it is the American cars winning.

I still believe Toyota has a right to be in Nascar. I believe it would provide for more entertainment to see some newer challengers enter the races. It would entise competition between the different racers and provide for a better show for us all.

Once again, I thank you, “Todd W”. Your posts have been intellectual and amazing to read. However, to discredit this current post would be a waste of your time because I only put the possibilities in there. Thank you.

March 18, 2007 at 1:31 am
(603) Todd W says:

So what So what your saying is, because they borrowed engineers, and GM allowed them to do so, as well as NASCAR, they shouldnt be allowed to race?>

I’m saying NASCAR shouldn’t have allowed them to race (in effect NASCAR let them buy their way in)

Honestly I don’t have a ‘driver’ — in fact, I didn’t even watched the 500 this year. Like I said there is other divisions deserve to be competition before Toyota (Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac)

My event?

IF they are only there by name, then why does it matter what name they are flying under? What does it matter. A name is just a name. No matter how you say it.

What kind of nonsense is that? No offense, but that’s about the dumbest thing I have read in here so far. They are ‘flying’ under the name of TRD (or Toyota Racing Development) …yet all of the ‘development’ as far as their NASCAR escapades have been is to copy the domestic rivals down to the cylinder heads

March 18, 2007 at 1:34 am
(604) dead head says:

i am going to go off topic for a moment and ask you all to forgive me for my actions that have created hatred toward me and my opinions. in return for you forgiveness, i will respect all opinions and respond in an adult way, while still defending my side. i would like to be able to post what i have to say and have people respect and accept what say. i understand i have wronged many here, and i addmit that. im saying this as a man who knows when hes at fault, and can accept responsabilty for what hes done.

March 18, 2007 at 1:53 am
(605) NE Man says:

I looked for over an hour to try and find anything that refers to GM helping the development of toyota. I couldnt find anything. So please show me a link and i will accept it. If you cannot, then stop using that argument. It isnt legitimate otherwise.

March 18, 2007 at 11:54 am
(606) NE Man says:

Aetheist dude, that might have gone a little too far. Yes he mocked her post about legality, then i put it into context for him, and no response. He got beat end of story. Now, to call him all those names makes you no better than dead head. Lets just stop with all the negativity and focus on the issue at hand. And im still waiting for the sources Todd, lest you forget.

March 18, 2007 at 12:20 pm
(607) The Aetheist says:

NE Man, you are just so correct.
The proof flows so well don’t it?

March 18, 2007 at 12:29 pm
(608) NE Man says:

I havent called you any names, so why you gotta call me names? As for the proof i asked for, im still waiting. PROVE TO ME WHAT YOURE SAYING IS CORRECT AND I WILL STOP ASKING FOR IT.

March 18, 2007 at 12:50 pm
(609) Todd W says:

Atheist hasn’t even argued the issue whatsoever…(obviously knows little about it)

N E Man acts like he can’t understand the simple concept of duplicating (or copying) an idea to promote ones self (or company) in someway. Maybe he doesn’t (obviously knows little about the mechanical angle of it all as well)

…And what proof are you looking for? That GM engineers helped design that block and heads in Ca.? Go to Jayski.com and read through the engine development programs. You might learn something, because obviously you know hardly anything of how those engines work whatsoever. Considering the premise of what you’re debating here considering that; yes, you are a complete moron. With no sense of pride whatsoever for American ingenuity, even when it’s thrown in his face.

This isn’t about just Toyota in NASCAR; it’s about a concept you seem to fail to understand. GM, Ford, and Chrysler built motors, and vehicles to defeat the Japanese who were intent on coming over here and ripping the stomachs out of you’re grandparents. There’s a pride factor involved, and it shouldn’t be for sale when it comes to something like NASCAR which is a 60 yr old American institution. Built up around the American automobile itself.

On the rare occasions 50 yrs ago that they let a Jag enter in, do you think anyone would have stood for the British simply cloning an Oldsmobile in a California plant and fixing their name to it? Hell no, and even the British had more respect in their auto’s then to go through with such a move.

March 18, 2007 at 1:32 pm
(610) dead head says:

wow, i have the feeling we are OFF TOPIC. should i say, hypocrite. now you know what i felt like. i got attacked for defending my side and now yous are defending your sides.

March 18, 2007 at 1:38 pm
(611) NE Man says:

First of all, i brought it back to the topic. Second of all you were consistently off topic.

March 18, 2007 at 2:07 pm
(612) dead head says:

it doesnt matter. your off topic. a good example, if you kill 10 people, you go to jail. if you kill 1 person, you go to jail. your still being a hipocrate.

March 18, 2007 at 2:13 pm
(613) Todd W says:


Sheer keyboard rage!!!!

What’s even more of a mystery is why this ‘Ford truck’ drivin individual would get so bent out of shape when it comes to a topic like this. Obviously he’s got a Toyota Camry that he’s making payments on, and it’s getting to be a burden after five years or so, and still not owning it!…..And anyone who says Toyota shouldn’t be a ‘NASCAR’ online or off, (more so online of course) — will feel his wrath!!!

I bet N E man is the type of guy who will zig the Camry in and out of two lane traffic as fast (and as careless) as he possibly can…only then when he’s caught at a red light he’s as civil as possible (because he knows the outcome already of heads up racing with the Camry at red lights; he can never win those little contests (even against some vans!!!!) So after one of those, or the monthly payment on the Camry arrives, or even worse yet…Someone remarks that the Camry isn’t really a ‘NASCAR’….Do we get to see the true N E Man!

March 18, 2007 at 2:24 pm
(614) Ban dead head says:

So now you want to kill people! Geez dude, get it together!

Looks like another weak start for toyota. Oh wait, where’s #55???? Just about time to order some pizza, Papa Johns pizza at that!

March 18, 2007 at 2:27 pm
(615) Todd W says:

…And N E man

The engineering powering those ‘NASCAR’s isn’t too far removed from the 40′s — That Toyota V8 is a clone of fifties America; When Chevrolet reached the magical 1 hp per cubic inch in 1955 with a push rod V8. You are right, you need to learn A LOT more about the entire subject (especially when you take up such a firm position with absolutely no concept of what you are talking about, or basis in fact)

Toyota’s auto industry is founded on unibody econo cars; That’s their history. That’s why we don’t see any historic NASCAR type series in Japan.

America’s auto industry is founded on full frame, RWD, OHC, push rod V8′s

Big difference! Especially when it comes to who is eligible to compete in a certain brand of motor sports. Since you’re such a Ford fan, the head of Ford performance, Jack Roush has similar thoughts on the entire subject as I myself do.



March 18, 2007 at 2:30 pm
(616) Ban dead head says:

~Todd W, it appears you might have your posting messages crossed. I drive the Ford truck, and I don’t own a foreign car. The car in my driveway is a Ford as well, a 01 Taurus to satisfy your curiosity.

Todays race is another fine example of NASCAR for me, at the moment, the closet toyota is in 28th place. Matt is in 4th! And I just placed my Papa Johns order.

March 18, 2007 at 2:45 pm
(617) Ban dead head says:

~Todd W, ok the link in your last post explains a whole lot. That really does make a difference. It certainly appear you have worked yourself into the same “nationalistic frenzy” as has Roush.

Sorry dude, but I don’t have those same exact feelings and anxieties.

March 18, 2007 at 2:54 pm
(618) Southern Girl says:

Is it wrong that my family and i have foreign and american cars??? (specifically: chevy, dodge, toyota, nissan, and BMW)

Toyota is already in NASCAR. That’s it. It’s just the way its going to be and have to be accepted, for now. Toyota is fighting their chance to be accepted and if not, then f*ck it. Not everybody is goign to like the same thing.

oh and the Ford fusion is made in mexico. now that’s crap because i really thought it was made in america.

March 18, 2007 at 2:58 pm
(619) NE Man says:

I own a Chevy Cavalier. I have never owned a foreign car. I owned a Ford contour, crapped out on me, and now my chevy is starting to feel the miles. It only has 40,000. Chevy sure is a quality product. And a blog isnt really a reliable source.

March 18, 2007 at 2:59 pm
(620) dead head says:

ban dead head, it was an example. i dont want, and never will kill people. i wish dw wasnt for toyota. he seems like a good guy. the real sad thing is that all them guys driving toyotas only did it for the money. them chrome wheels look real nice with all that brake dust. there ment to be black just for that reason.

March 18, 2007 at 3:00 pm
(621) Ban dead head says:

~ dead head; There is no apology for your comments. This is the real world and you must face life as you are dealt it. However, it is quite obvious that you were not the only guilty party here. I must also thank you as well. If you would not have made those comments, I would not have banned this site from my son. Therefore, I do owe you that. Because a few people here, ‘The Aetheist’ and I also see quite a bit from ‘Todd W’ now as well, and some others clearly cannot control their mouth/fingers.

However, I have already sent the message to the board officiating guide, and I’m sure once he sees all this foulness, he will have no choice but to just close it.

At first I had thought ‘NE Man’ was the guide, but it no longer has that appearance.

March 18, 2007 at 3:28 pm
(622) Ban dead head says:

That was great. Good pizza and cola, then the #44 car got a penalty for speeding on pit road, then got another one for speeding on his penalty pass. That makes for some good action.

Looks like Matt and the rest of the Fords are going to have to team up to beat those Chevys!

March 18, 2007 at 3:43 pm
(623) dead head says:

look at them toyotas spin! two for one.

March 18, 2007 at 4:22 pm
(624) NE Man says:

I wont apologize because what i said, though it could have been worded differently, was right. I was asking for your sources so i could learn. If it seems like i dont know mechanics, youre right. I dont know much about it. Thats why i was trying to learn more about it. Instead you went off on how stupid i was for not know, rather than showing me where you got your sources. Where did you find out that GM was helping toyota and where does it say what goes into toyotas racing cars. I will say, your comments about my intelligence were uncalled for. My comments were uncalled for, but i stand by them.

March 18, 2007 at 4:47 pm
(625) Todd W says:

To answer your question I read that two years ago at Jayski.com when they were developing their American designed motor for the Tundra truck (which is essentially the same motor only shifted to the Camry’s)

…In Costa Mesa Ca. not Irvine. Regardless, they designed that motor in record time by engine development standards; it’s only obvious that they had assistance in North America by GM engineers to design an American push rod V8. It’s a known fact, but I’m not going to read that far back into Jayski’s archives just to appease you for the sake of this message board.

You see even the Ford’s aren’t entirely Ford’s…and the Chevy’s aren’t entirely Chevy’s. For example the Ford 9 in rear end is arguably the best rear end ever engineered here in North America — so Ford, Chevy, and Dodge all use it. On the other hand the trailing arm suspensions on all cars are of GM design (taken from Chevrolet trucks of the late sixties)

So in other words all of the cars ‘Dodge, Chevy, and Ford share a make up of the best American designed parts of the period (the 1960′s). Only all of those makes use their own engine designs of the period, the Chevrolet 350, Ford 351, and Chrysler 340)

….Toyota has zero history in the design, yet is allowed to run American parts, with a cloned American V8, and flaunt it as a Toyota Camry on the race track. Simply because the average new breed of NASCAR fan has no idea of the ‘mechanics’ of it all. The reason for them being allowed into NASCAR is because they sell a midsize sedan in North America, and that shares zero in common with that Camry you see on TV. That Camry is essentially a North American ‘muscle car’ badged as a Camry to broaden NASCAR’s fan base (those who drive Camry’s, the best selling car in the country)

Only it’s a complete fake, and an American tradition of sorts has sold out to allow it to masquerade as ‘legitimate’ in the company of the innovators of the design (GM, Ford, etc.)

March 18, 2007 at 5:02 pm
(626) NE Man says:

I went to jayski.com and foudn nothing that indicated that toyota used GM to help develop a car. I saw that GM thought toyota had one of the best engine designs, but nothing else. “On the engine front, Ford’s Jack Roush says that Toyota has the best engine design in the sport at the moment and Dodge has the second-best. GM officials agree, which is one reason that GM has been promoting NASCAR’s proposed new engine.” (jayski.com)

March 18, 2007 at 5:32 pm
(627) Todd W says:

NE Man you don’t have to look for such information. For Toyota to be eligible just to compete, they had to essentially copy an American designed small block engine….and in doing so, (without hunting for the obvious) who do you honestly think they are going to employ at their California lab to help them create an American engine that conforms to American standards, and has been improved upon, tested, and developed for decades now at the hands of American engineers in America?

The Japanese?

I don’t think so!

March 18, 2007 at 5:38 pm
(628) NE Man says:

So what youre saying is you have no proof, only speculation. You dont have any evidence so you bash something because they have the potential to be better than the home grown thing. OK.

March 18, 2007 at 6:47 pm
(629) Todd W says:

Toyota got to see all of the teams engines before they got into Nascar and they took all the benefits of each design and combined it to come up with “their” engine. That much is fact. Another fact is that a large number of the engineers in the Toyota plant in Ca, are former Ford, GM engineers. Get your crap together!

Remember your the one typing these sort of statements –

Go and learn something before insinuating that somebody that does know what their talking about doesn’t. You’re Camry has nothing to do with a ‘NASCAR’ — get over it

March 18, 2007 at 6:50 pm
(630) Todd W says:

Here’s youre statement I’m referring to again (I wudn’twant it confuse with one of mine)

NE Man — it seems like i dont know mechanics, youre right. I dont know much about it.

March 18, 2007 at 7:53 pm
(631) NE Man says:

Forgive me for trying to better myself. Forgive me for trying to learn. Forgive me for wanting to know where you got your infor, so i can see your side of the argument. So rather than crapping all over everything i say, why dont you oblige and provide the sources.

March 18, 2007 at 9:24 pm
(632) Tim says:

The best way to settle the issue of if a company makes cars in the USA or not is to examine domestic content.

Domestic Content by Category (2005 – sales weighted)
Ford, GM and Chrysler Group 76%
Japanese Automakers 48%
Korean Automakers 3%
European Automakers 7%
Foreign Automaker Avg. 40%
Domestic Content by Brand (2005 – sales weighted)
BMW 10%
Chrysler (domestic brands) 78%
Ford (domestic brands) 78%
GM (domestic brands) 74%
Honda/Acura 59%
Hyundai/Kia 3%
Isuzu 79%
Mitsubishi 36%
Nissan/Infiniti 46%
Subaru 26%
Toyota/Lexus 47%
Volkswagen/Audi 4%
There are many people that claim that foreign automakers create thousands of jobs. Let’s look a comparison of employment in auto parts. Auto parts makers employed approximately 620,000 U.S. workers in 2005 (with sales of approximately $356,000 for each U.S. auto parts job). Most major auto parts makers serve multiple OEMs, both foreign and domestic. However, based on average revenue per employee, domestic automakers likely supported approximately 480,000 of those parts jobs, while foreign automakers supported approximately only 140,000 of those jobs.

If you want to justify your foreign purchase, go ahead. I support domestic content producers. I have economic patriotism as well as political. This is the only way I know to support our economy and our workers.

March 18, 2007 at 9:47 pm
(633) Tim says:

Last year, domestic automakers (Ford, GM and Chrysler Group) sold
approximately 57% of the cars purchased in the U.S., but bought 77% of the
parts made here. Meanwhile, foreign automakers sold 43% of the cars
purchased here, but bought only 23% of the parts made here.

That translates to tens of thousands of jobs. We all have to collectively raise the bar. Domestic content matters. Pay attention and spend wisely

March 18, 2007 at 9:48 pm
(634) Toyota Rocks says:

Actually Tim, a better place would be to look at the UAW source.

You will find both the monte carlo and charger under CAW for Canadian. You won’t find the fusion, it’s built in mexico.

March 18, 2007 at 9:52 pm
(635) Toyota Rocks says:

I see you still consider Chrysler as domestic, why might that be?

March 18, 2007 at 9:55 pm
(636) NE Man says:

Ok… the point of this site is not what to buy. It is whether Toyota ruins NASCAR for you. For me it doesnt. Should they be there? I think so. It adds competition. Does that make me “unpatriotic”? No. Its not like im going to bomb the US in favor of Japan. Its not like im going to shun every other car company. As as for buying a Toyota, i will because they are inexpensive. At least until i have money. Then i want a corvette. So im not completely against American vehicles. Im not in favor of all foreign. I just think toyota should be in NASCAR.

March 18, 2007 at 10:33 pm
(637) Toyota Rocks says:

Toyota makes NASCAR man. Did you see that wreck today? Oh well, at tleast the fans got a good spectacle from it.

March 18, 2007 at 10:46 pm
(638) Southern Girl says:

I agree with NE Man. I drive a toyota and an american car, but that doesn’t make me less of an american.

and no.. toyota does not ruin nascar for me because they put on quite a show today.

March 18, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(639) Southern Girl says:

Go away “its too late.” Just when this issue was starting to get clean with good information, you mess it up all over again.

March 18, 2007 at 10:52 pm
(640) NE Man says:

Ok. didnt i just get done saying this is about NASCAR? It isnt about trade. So lets stay on topic.

March 18, 2007 at 11:16 pm
(641) dead head says:

nascar should stay American. if they let toyotas in they might as well open our borders to who ever wants to come in. like i said earlier, if they started japcar in japan, do you truley think theyd let the big three race their. also, the big three may have plants overseas, but they are made here and of some parts made here. i think that if you worked for one of the big three, youd know why it matters to by American. toyotas profits go overseas to japan.

March 18, 2007 at 11:23 pm
(642) Toyota Rocks says:

And how does that effectively RUIN NASCAR?

March 18, 2007 at 11:35 pm
(643) dead head says:

it ruins it for me. read the headline of this page.

March 18, 2007 at 11:36 pm
(644) Steve McCormick says:

OK! Let me introduce myself. I am Steve McCormick the NASCAR Guide for About.com. This is my site. When posts get deleted I did it. Either manually or through the automated language/spam filters.

I have a few points to mention.

  • I really don’t want to ban anyone but I will if necessary.
  • Foul language will get deleted. (this includes using characters to block out some letters of the word)
  • Personal attacks will get deleted
  • Anything ridiculously off topic, as judged by me, will get deleted. I give you folks a LOT of free run before I delete, but some of these posts are WAY out in left field.

There have been a few cases where some very eloquent posts had to be deleted because they couldn’t stick with these very basic rules.

Please try to keep it civil. Have a point. Keep it clean.

Thank you for participating.

March 19, 2007 at 12:03 am
(645) Southern Girl says:

Yay rules and regulations! Thank you Steve!!!

March 19, 2007 at 12:12 am
(646) dead head says:

steve, how come it took so long for you to get rid of the first post?

March 19, 2007 at 12:14 am
(647) dead head says:

steve, how come it took so long for you to get rid of the first post? and can you possibly split this into pages so we dont have to scroll so long.

March 19, 2007 at 12:23 am
(648) Southern Girl says:

I do agree there with you dead head. Splitting these comments into pages would be a lot better.

March 19, 2007 at 12:45 am
(649) dead head says:

does anyone know why toyota put chrome wheels on the cars? i think they are trying to show up the big three. but there could be a differant reason and id like to know.

March 19, 2007 at 1:06 am
(650) dead head says:

i read that they were outlawed because the lug nuts wouldnt stay torqued on. why would they have them then?

March 19, 2007 at 11:59 am
(651) Todd W says:

As I have said before, take away Toyota’s push rod V8 which is a carbon copy of an American design, and what are you left with on those Camry’s that is Toyota?

The answer — Nothing whatsoever.

At least the parts that go into the Camry production cars are designed in Japan.

I wouldn’t have a problem with Toyota entering into NASCAR if they had achieved the following first -

a. Marketed a rear wheel drive car with some sort of sohc V8 (even if it didn’t sell well)

That’s what Dodge and Plymouth had to do with the 1970 Daytona, and Superbird in 1970 in order to use those cars in NASCAR; and they purposely lost money on each one they manufactured just so they could be eligible to race

it’s called homologation

If Toyota was serious about getting their name into a celebrated American motorsport, they should have had to at least introduce that American design into their inventory if they wanted to be a part of it so bad. In other words; they should have created a model similar in layout to the Crown Victoria, or the last rwd V8 Impala from the late nineties, or the modern Dodge Charger, or Chrysler 300. Essentially an automobile that could not only be accepted into the ranks of NASCAR in this country, but also serve as a law enforcement cruiser.

Pontiac, Chrysler, Buick, Mercury have all held champions, and won races in NASCAR for years. Obviously each of those domestic makes have earned the right to be labeled NASCAR before a Toyota should.

If Toyota wants to be a part of NACSAR which is of a formula of American design, driven through the rear wheels from a Detroit ‘locker’ type rear end, and American inspired push rod engine; Don’t you think they should at least introduce that same layout into a production car of theirs even for one single year? O f course they should, but they won’t…and do you know why?

Because Toyota scoffs at that layout, they look at it as primitive, not worthy of a place on their assembly lines. Yet they have no qualms about throwing their name to it in order to generate more sales from the average American to sell their product over here. Without the north American buyer Toyota would be nothing, This isn’t about where assembly plants are located, it’s about a unique American motorsport.

The Australians have more pride in their motorsports than a lot of us do. They run Supercar v8′s and the only models in it are Ford, and Chevy i.e. — Hold en and Ford. No way would they let a Toyota into the ranks of that for all the obvious reasons I have outlined. Who really wants Toyota to be the belling selling car in our country? I sure as hell don’t.

March 19, 2007 at 12:11 pm
(652) Toyota Rocks says:

What is the big deal then?

Toyota is built here in America.

Dodge = German = Built in Canada

Chevrolet = US = Built in Canada

Ford = US = Built in Mexico

So what is the big deal?

Toyota is the only car built here that is currently running in NASCAR.

Therefore, Toyota should be the number 1 seed.

March 19, 2007 at 12:26 pm
(653) Toyota Rocks says:

So basically you have completly disregarded the Toyota Century. Which is their 1960′s era Front mount V8 rear wheel drive vehicle.

Why might that be?

Don’t forget the 1964 Crown 8, which carried a production V8 in it as well.

March 19, 2007 at 12:34 pm
(654) Toyota Rocks says:

Taken from the Toyota Century history page:

“The original Century was based on the 1964 Toyota Crown, which featured the 2.6 L V8 Toyota 3V engine. The 1967 Century was equipped with an upgraded version of this engine, the 3.0 L 3V. 1973 saw the introduction of the 3.4 L 4V, and the engine was once again changed to the 4.0 L 5V in 1982. Note that the 3V, 4V, and 5V do not refer to the number of valves in the engine; they denote models in the line of Toyota V engines. There is also a L-Type stretched version of the Century, length is 5270mm with a wheelbase of 3010mm.

The 1st generation Century remained largely untouched during its 30-year production run. Although minor cosmetic changes and engine upgrades occurred throughout its lifespan, the commercial longevity of the Century chassis is nevertheless impressive.

[edit] Chassis codes
VG20: 3.0 L 3V V8
VG30: 3.4 L 4V V8
VG40: 4.0 L 5V V8
VG45: 4.0 L 5V V8 (L-Type) ”

That would be over 30 years of production.

The current model is out of class since it uses the V12 engine.

Therefore by the argument presented, Toyota has every right to be in NASCAR.

March 19, 2007 at 2:17 pm
(655) NE Man says:

Ok to give them standards on entering, like selling what theyre showing is one thing. But to completely outlaw them from even entering isnt fair to them or any other fans that would be interested in seeing Toyota race. Compromise is good.

March 19, 2007 at 2:57 pm
(656) dead head says:

yeah, but you cant buy a rwd toyota camry with a v8. on the other hand, you can buy a rwd monte carlo with a v8, same with dodge and ford. thats the differance. and it isnt the 60s so it doesnt matter if they made one then, you cant buy a CAMRY now with a v8 and rwd. and that isnt fair to hardcore toyota fans. you cant even buy a toyota race engine, but you can from the big three. they treat their fans fairly.

March 19, 2007 at 3:11 pm
(657) NE Man says:

How long has Toyota been in NASCAR? Just this season. Im sure they will offer it, and if not they shouldnt be there. If they dont offer it in the next two years, then boot them.

March 19, 2007 at 3:50 pm
(658) Toyota Rocks says:

Ok dead head, you make a point about monte carlo, and charger.

However, WHERE can you buy a rear wheel drive V8 Fusion?????

Back up one stage, how many STREET worthy RWD V8 Taurus’ did Ford build?

So, if Ford is running a RWD V8 on the track, but no at the dealer, why SHOULD Toyota?

March 19, 2007 at 3:57 pm
(659) dead head says:

i agree, but they should of had one out before they entered. at least for the fans. if i was a toyota fan id be pretty mad. same thing if chevy stopped making monte carlos and still raced them. but it isnt about the fans anymore. same with all the old bands. they let dumb things get in the way of a reunion tour. like van halen and triumph. those were examples, im not going off topic. its to help you see were im coming from.

March 19, 2007 at 4:06 pm
(660) Toyota Rocks says:

Ok lets review. In the current era NASCAR:
Chevy: Monte Carlo No issue.
Dodge: Intrepid Not RWD No V8.
Dodge: Charger no issue.
Ford: Fusion Not RWD No V8.
Ford: Taurus Not RWD No V8.

So for many years Dodge and Ford cheated their fan base. For even more years Ford did, and currently cheats their fan base.

To produce a valid argument to the Toyota never did, I posted the Toyota history to place PROOF into the dialouge. Yes it was from the 1960′s – 1997. In 1997 they went from a V8 to a V12, that’s why I only said for over 30 years as opposed to over 40.

That car can be bought today, but in will be a RWD V12.

March 19, 2007 at 4:20 pm
(661) Todd W says:

This sums up the Toyota century of 1967 (which didn’t even touch ground in north America, let alone marketed as a mode of personal transportation) –The Toyota Century is a large four-door limousine produced by Toyota mainly for the Japanese market.

As for the Toyota ‘Crown’ which is a 2.6 L V8 failure from the early fifties, that has nothing in common with the design of the 5.7 litre ohc, four bolt main cap, push rod V8 that Toyota copied from the American design.

Both of those vehicles were never offered to the American public, have nothing in common design wise with the American cloned Camry engine, except the number of cylinders.

Do you know Toyota can’t even offer a crate version of the NASCAR Camry to the general public because it could instantly be held accountable with patent violation? The water jacket design, Camshaft configuration, Four bolt main caps, Forged crank, roller timing set, freeze plugs, etc., etc. have been patented years ago by the domestic manufactures here.

But you can order up a GM performance parts 383, Ford SVO 351 ‘Cleveland’…and a MoPar performance oriented small block. Not with Toyota though, in fact if you wanted to go racing at your local dirt track in a late model you don’t even have the option of racing a Toyota because they don’t make an oval track crate engine available to the public….And the reason for that is because of the infringement on the American design and layout!

The only place they are allowed to use a copy of an American V8 is in a NASCAR sanctioned event.

And to ‘Toyota rocks’

Again you fail to understand this simple concept,

It’s not about where the domestic street cars or parts are manufactured today, it’s about the design of the parts themselves; They originate here in the United States from Detroit — Woodward ave. And since were talking about NASCAR and the performance parts they run, that is still all produced here in the United States. You might buy a new Chevrolet Cobalt from with a fwd, 4 banger from Mexico, but when you order that Gm performance parts, 450 hp, 383 stroker motor; That crate is shipped from within the country.

..And as far as NE Man asserting that Toyota will release a rwd, V8 of American design; They should have done that for before entering the ranks of NASCAR….and the design of that street motor should have carried over to the design of the race motor. Instead of them just playing copy cat with the domestic engines while all they have ever offered in their Camry is a V6. Even their Tundra truck V8 wouldn’t qualify in NASCAR, it would be a loser, and way too expensive to maintain on the track. Plus it’s DOHC, NASCAR mandates SOHC, push rod V8′s.

It’s also a fact too, that if GM improves on a cylinder head design, that NASCAR mandates them to show it to Toyota so they can inspect it. Do you know why? So Toyota can essentially copy it into their already copied design!!

March 19, 2007 at 4:25 pm
(662) dead head says:

true, but the tarus had that out when they were in nascar. as for the fusion, my mistake. but ford has street credit with rwd. toyota doesnt. i think one thing we all agree on is toyota should have a rwd v8 camry to offer if their gonna race.

March 19, 2007 at 4:32 pm
(663) Toyota Rocks says:

So which is it then?
Either Toyota did or did not build a RWD V8? Either way entrapment comes to play.

What would you put that crate motor in? It would not fit in a current streetable NASCAR styled vehicle. None of them, to include the Monte Carlo.

I guess you cannot understand that Toyota HAS done everything you said they have not conducted. Furthermore it appears you cannot understand that what was on the track yesterday CANNOT be purchased at the dealer today by ANY of the current NASCAR models.

So by moving from cars into parts you can now justify that your earlier post is inaccurate?

March 19, 2007 at 4:38 pm
(664) Toyota Rocks says:

I understand that dead head. Agreed.

However, I don’t want a RWD V8 Camry. You might. I want a RWD V8 Fusion! Don’t you?

So, if NASCAR says it is ok for Ford to run a RWD V8 Fusion, but only on the track. Then why should Toyota not have that same luxury?

It is no longer about us, the people, it is all about them, the money hungry.

March 19, 2007 at 4:45 pm
(665) Todd W says:

Toyota never offer a RWD V8 to the American public — ever!

The obsolete V8′s Toyota had dumped into obsolete limo’s in Japan in the fifties has nothing in common with the American V8 sitting in the NASCAR Camry.

The floor pan in each of the cars in taken from of a 1965 Ford Galaxie. So that ‘Camry’ is sitting on a 1965 Ford floor pan, using a Ford designed rear end (Toyota will even admit that) GM rear trailing arms, an American designed transmission, engine, wheel bolt pattern, ignition system, carburetor, intake manifold, and on and on.

It certainly isn’t a ‘Camry’…and definitely didn’t evolve out of Japanese engineering; none of it did. Why can’t you understand that?

It’s a cheap rip off, and the only reason they can get away with it is because NASCAR agreed to let them put ‘Camry’ on a compilation of parts that IS American!!! They bought their way into NASCAR, they didn’t earn their way in…Big difference.

March 19, 2007 at 4:55 pm
(666) dead head says:

yep, and i think ford should have a v8 rwd fusion. that makes me made too. i personaly dont want any toyotas, but theirs people who probly want a nascar edition camry. them fusion are pretty cool though. but them dodge nitros are probly the best looking, and perfoming, new cars out there. for now.

March 19, 2007 at 4:57 pm
(667) Toyota Rocks says:

So in review.
Post # 718 from Todd W.
“I wouldn’t have a problem with Toyota entering into NASCAR if they had achieved the following first -
a. Marketed a rear wheel drive car with some sort of sohc V8 (even if it didn’t sell well)”

As opposed to Post #732 by Todd W-
“Toyota never offer a RWD V8 to the American public — ever!
The obsolete V8’s Toyota had dumped into obsolete limo’s in Japan in the fifties has nothing in common with the American V8 sitting in the NASCAR Camry.”

It appears the obsolete V8 from Toyota in the 1950s through 1997 actually does have something in common with the NASCAR V8. However, from your post #639-
“Perhaps if Toyota at least took that ‘I’ force V8 (or whatever it’s called) out of the Tundra, fitted it into a midsize (or even full size) shell with the rear wheels driving it — then it would at least appear to myself that they are serious to some extent to fit the NASCAR ‘mold’, which obviously they aren’t. So they should get out because THEY HAVE NO HISTORY WHATSOEVER WITH V8, RWD’S!!!!”

Kinda then makes it all very clear to me. You cannot stand it. And you will write whatever it takes to put discredit upon Toyota, and Toyota supporters.

March 19, 2007 at 5:16 pm
(668) Todd W says:

‘Toyota sucks’ what you just summarized there makes no sense whatsoever.

This quote — “Toyota never offer a RWD V8 to the American public — ever!

…sums it all up completely. No Toyota V8 current or passed has anything in common with the V8′s of NASCAR, the design are totally different genius. There are probably locomotives from the 1800′s that have eight pistoned engines; that doesn’t make them eligible for NASCAR now does it?

In response to Dead head

Me I would get a mid 90′s Z28 Camaro with the LS1 sb, used (but not abused). Pick up one of those Paxton super chargers off the shelf at any speed shop (for about twenty-five hundred bucks in satin finish), bolt the thing on to the all aluminum LS1, and instantly have a close to 500 hp ‘street-able’ car with power windows, and leather seats, for not even half the price of a new Camry with a lame V6 and 200 hp.

You would still have loads of cash to spare to upgrade a lot of other components on the already ‘tuned’ Z28 suspension, exhaust, etc. Going that route, you could have a car for the price of the new Camry that would run 12′s at least in a quarter mile. No wonder why I still opt for American. It’s as much bang for the buck as it is brand loyalty.

Revive the American auto industry; Buy and drive American in 07 for Christ sake.

March 19, 2007 at 5:23 pm
(669) Toyota Rocks says:

Must have struck a nerve hey?

Have you already forgotten about that big POST you wrote about how Toyota and GM worked hand in hand in Irvine, CA. In order to create said NASCAR motor?

IIRC you said you read that at jayski.com or something similar?

Dude, get over it! Toyota has done EVERYTHING you said they needed to do in order to appear serious to enter NASCAR.

What do you want next?

March 19, 2007 at 5:34 pm
(670) Todd W says:

To Toyota again because I still don’t thinks he understands the entire concept here.

NASCAR mandates that the motor (and entire platform) in each NEXTEL cup car be of a proven, past engineered American design — period.

By default any car that isn’t American has no roots in that design, or NASCAR itself.

Just in order to compete they must abandon their own automotive design and adopt a past American design, and the only way they can do that is to copy or adopt American parts.

There will never truly be a foreign car in modern NASCAR; because modern NASCAR demands every thing on the race track has American engineered parts! …And that’s essentially what a car is; it’s a bunch of ‘parts’ period.

The parts that make up the Camry in NASCAR can stay; We want the name Toyota, and Camry out because it doesn’t belong on those parts. Understand?

and don’t call me ‘dude’

March 19, 2007 at 5:40 pm
(671) dead head says:

i only drive chevys. i used to drag race. i know about that. but id rather have a 69 chevelle with a chevy crate 572 with a polished weiand 8-71 and two 750 cfm edelbrocks. all throttle no bottle, go chrome or go home. but toyota has a rep for small family cars, they should take a chance and make a modern muscle car. i see were both yous are coming from, but toyota has the advantage because all the design was already done, so the just improved on it. the might have a better engine in nascar,but not street.

March 19, 2007 at 5:49 pm
(672) NE Man says:

“UPDATE: NASCAR’s controversial engine of the future suddenly appears all but dead, according to engine builders and car owners, after the latest round of meetings between NASCAR executives and a few Nextel Cup team owners. However, that would lock in the current Toyota and Dodge engine designs as still technically superior to the present Ford and Chevrolet engines. And it would leave Honda – widely expected to make a run into NASCAR racing – with a clean sheet of paper to design its own new NASCAR V-8, which rivals worry would be even better than any engine in the sport right now. NASCAR’s engine of the future was to have debuted at California in February 2007. Now it has been pushed back to 2009 or 2010. Add to that, word that NASCAR is apparently working with Honda on an engine development operation for the NASCAR Technical Institute in Mooresville [NC], and it’s easy to see why the NASCAR garage here has been in such turmoil the past 48 hours. On the engine front, Ford’s Jack Roush says that Toyota has the best engine design in the sport at the moment and Dodge has the second-best. GM officials agree, which is one reason that GM has been promoting NASCAR’s proposed new engine. Ford’s Roush, however, says that such a new engine would be very expensive, though he has reluctantly hired engine designers for the project.(Winston Salem Journal)(6-6-2005)” This was pulled from jayski.com. It tells of how NASCAR wants to make a new engine to put in the races, but delayed the production. Ever think maybe thats why GM helped Toyota for 2007? Maybe it was just to get them through until they could use their engine.

March 19, 2007 at 5:58 pm
(673) Todd W says:

Now NE Man is pasting entire Jayski stuff, lol

To dead –
What bugs me about the muscle cars is all of the corporate honchos that are marketing the Toyotas, and all sorts of other foreign branded crap that flows into the market to the idiot public are bidding 2 million dollars for 1970 ‘Cuda’s, so they can display it in their home museum….And at the same time jacking up the price of the muscle car hobby entirely for everyone else.

The 572 is 10 grand worth of engine and beyond any middle class persons budget really. You can’t find a solid 69 Chevelle anymore that your not going to get gouged over either. That combo of car you mention would retail literally for about 150 thousand (even more expensive to build). I know I will never own one. I picked up my Chevelle for 8 grand in 1995 before the mark ups for the things went insane.

I remember right around that time I found a 1970 Chevelle, 396 4spd original at a new car lot. They wanted 13.5 for the car. Twelve years later same car — double in price. Hell the LS6 cars were selling for 27k in the early 90′s.

March 19, 2007 at 7:18 pm
(674) Todd W says:

To NE Man with this comment –>

You know what NE Man? That ‘engine of the future’ is more than likely never going to happen (at least not in this decade, or well into the next). NASCAR is already in a slump of losing it’s core fan base not only over the Toyota affair, and points race, but with the COT (or the ‘car of tomorrow’) as well. The majority of NASCAR fans are put off by the idea, and would like each car to retain it’s production ‘template’ or body shell.

When you take the Chevy engine out of the Chevy, and the Ford engine out of the Ford; that’s practically suicide for traditional NASCAR….and as much as they would love to pull that off to save costs, and bitching from the teams — The sport would go into instant decline way more than it already has.

We already have a series where every car is of identical design including the engines — it’s called IROC…and even NASCAR knows to go that route with Nextel cup is suicide for the sport. Because NASCAR is just that — stock car racing (or used to be anyway) — people still want to see stock bodied
(or what looks like) cars on a race track….and they want the Chevy’s to be powered by Chevy’s, and Ford’s by Ford’s, etc.

Let me clear something else up for you. There wasn’t a big board meeting at GM headquarters, and some white hair announces “We are going to help Toyota design a motor for NASCAR today”

Toyota simply scouted for the best engineers available from the fledging domestic manufacturers, and paid them millions to help them clone the perfect ‘American’ designed, sixties era, V8 to stuff in their racing Camry. Franz jr. who needs to be removed as president of NASCAR because he is destroying the sport his father really pioneered, is the driving force behind permitting (even encouraging) a lot of this stupidity. He’s like that moron who has the monopoly on the pro wrestling garbage. No matter how dumb his ideas may be; They get put into motion.

He stipulates that GM must show any improvements etc. they make on their engine (cylinder heads for example) — to Toyota. Obviously because the Toyota design is so similar, and he wants Toyota competing to attract those Camry owners who dot the American landscape right now….And you wonder why GM, and Ford have been seriously thinking of withdrawing from NACSAR? In fact that’s just what they need to do, all domestics should relinquish factory support, and leave it to Toyota and Honda. NASCAR would fold soon after, and it would be a welcomed sight to see if it came to that.

It needs to be overhauled, or a rival to it needs to emerge. Honestly, the only true NASCAR you will find anymore is at your local track.

March 19, 2007 at 7:21 pm
(675) dead head says:

12000$ for just the engine. but thats if i had the money. id want the whole ten yards. you could by a brand new car for that much. with that said, toyota should of made a camry with a v8 and rwd. or at least have a model with that. then theyd have something to base their cars off of. like i said before, do it for the fans and have some loyalty to the sport. hey, they might even end up with something that would improve the nascar cars so then they they could say they have a place their.

March 19, 2007 at 8:39 pm
(676) MattC says:

I’m all American. I believe that we should fight wars to win… And eventually take over the world. American brand name cars have had the upper hand over Japanese cars for such a long time, its not even funny. In the 70′s a Japanese car was a joke, and in the 80′s it was still a joke. But then the domestic brands screwed something up and let Toyota and Honda and Nissan catch up and eventually surpass Ford, Dodge, and Chevy in everything thats important in a car. And that is styling, fit and finish, reliability, fuel economy, and trade in value. For that reason you now see foreign brands raising prices on their cars because they are in more demand. I hate the looks of domestic cars. The interiors are all cheap feeling-nothing fits together, huge gaps between peices of trim. The domestic name brands just want to make a quick buck. The Japanese brands sell their cars based on what I said above-styling, fit and finish, reliability, fuel economy, and trade in value. For that reason, I dont see anything wrong with Toyota entering nascar and as a matter of fact, I never watched nascar before. Now I will because now it’ll start getting interesting. Toyota has never made a V8 except for whats in their trucks and SUVs. I think the reason why most people have a problem with them entering NASCAR is because they know they will catch on to fine tuning engines just like their road cars and eventually own the sport. And the domestic brands have it coming to them. The had the upper hand for a long time now-and its their own fault they let the Japanese brands catch up…

March 19, 2007 at 8:40 pm
(677) Todd W says:

Problem is these production engines wouldn’t hold up to 5000 miles, ten thousand rpm, with speeds approaching 200 mph….I know for a fact the Japanese engines wouldn’t!

…And that’s another thing to take into consideration for all you ‘Mugen’ performance, Honda Civic, or fast and furious rebels out there. you can hop up a Civic to hit 13 seconds quarter mile (with enough wasted cash) but the thing wasn’t built for it! You take any hopped up Civic and run it against any domestic ‘muscle car’ of the late sixties that is equal in elapsed time as it — You run both cars back to back continuously, five passes, ten passes, and so on…and you will see that Civic break something before long, and that four bolt main V8, with the bullet proof trans, and rear cogs still ready to run it down….because those cars were built with quarter mile acceleration in mind! Civics were built with getting you to a destination for cheap in mind.

Not only does America own the design on the push rod V8, GM’s turbo six Buick’s of that late eighties own the turbo six design out on the street and strip as well. Ask anyone who’s ever sat in a Grand National Buick before.

March 19, 2007 at 9:19 pm
(678) MattC says:

I also find it amusing how some people get all worked up over just one foreign brand name entering nascar. Imagine how interesting it would be if Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche entered nascar. They’ve never done this kind of racing before-you know, make left turns all day. That means they too would have to start from scratch and may the best design win. But we all know its not all about the cars design. You still have to have a good driver which means the domestics will have a fighting chance because they have excellent drivers. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But with some foreign names in there, it gives the drivers more options to pick from and it makes racing more exciting. Foreign competition is the best thing that could ever happen to nascar. It will attract more fans, and if you’re a long time nascar fan who decides to stop watching, its just because you’re afraid to have your heart broken and your ego shattered because your brand lost. Nascar could use some diversity. Imagine if the NFL only had 3 teams.

March 19, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(679) Todd W says:

Hey Matt, I’m just going to start quoting myself here…for example –

So you see Matt, there is no such thing as a ‘foreign’ NASCAR; If it was foreign; it wouldn’t be a NASCAR.

All they can do is apply a bunch of peel off stickers (that look like a foreign make) to a metal shell — with a bunch of American engineered parts underneath.

…and any moron (no offense) who believes it’s just a bunch of left turns, obviosly has never driven a dirt track car or they would have a lot more respect for the ability involved in keeping that car ‘turning’

Those cars aren’t turning left Matt; their sliding left under a delicate balance….a lot different.

March 19, 2007 at 9:37 pm
(680) Todd W says:

Hey Matt, I’m just going to start quoting myself here…for example –

So you see Matt, there is no such thing as a ‘foreign’ NASCAR; If it was foreign; it wouldn’t be a NASCAR.

All they can do is apply a bunch of peel off stickers (that look like a foreign make) to a metal shell — with a bunch of American engineered parts underneath.

…and any moron (no offense) who believes it’s just a bunch of left turns, obviosly has never driven a dirt track car or they would have a lot more respect for the ability involved in keeping that car ‘turning’

Those cars aren’t just turning left Matt; their sliding left under a delicate balance….a lot different.

March 19, 2007 at 10:10 pm
(681) MattC says:

No offense ToddW, but I do believe nascar is a bit “weak” compared to other types of racing. compared to F1, its just left turns. And dirt track, yeah that would be fun and challenging racing. But not as challenging as rally racing with Audis and Subarus and the like. You dont see Chevys and Dodges winning those kinds of racing. The domestic brands need nascar because its the only kind of racing they can win. And people go crazy when another name comes in.

March 19, 2007 at 10:21 pm
(682) MattC says:

Hey ToddW, No offense but I’m going to quote myself as well and this is all just my opinion. I believe that nascar is a “weaker” kind of racing. Compare it to F1 and all you see is left turns. Dirt track racing has very little to do with the nascar of today. And even as fun and challenging as dirt track racing would be, I dont think it would be near as challenging as rally racing with Audis and the like. The domestic brands need nascar so they can say they’re good at a type of racing. Toyota coming into the picture will take that away from them, even if they are all identical and based off a template and all have similar engines. You dont see chevys and dodges offering much competition in F1 or rally racing.

March 19, 2007 at 10:23 pm
(683) Toyota Rocks says:

Ok dude, got it. Now just as soon as you make amends to your post# 735 I will consider not using dude to honor your ever so mighty requests.

However, we all here can see your requests never end. Just as soon as they are meet you simply change things to make yourself appear to be the dude. Furthermore dude, you still owe an apology from your brash keyboarding towards a few other posters from yesterday. But then again, it would be above someone of your stature to have done that.

So in conclusion, everything you posted about what Toyota has never done, that was rebutted, and acknowledged is again no longer prevalent to the dude? Got it.

To post #743; Simple answer here. Toyota does not pay me directly, the American consumer pays me through my several thousand shares of lucrative Toyota North America (US Market) stock.

Taken from “The Herald”:
“As Toyota Motor gets ready to overtake General Motors as the world’s largest automaker in annual car sales, its share price has soared — burnishing the company’s new image as a hot stock.

Toyota’s market value briefly topped ¥30 trillion, or $256 billion, this month, making it by far the most valuable Japanese company and gaining on Exxon Mobil, worth $409 billion; General Electric, valued at $354 billion; and Microsoft, $268 billion.”

March 19, 2007 at 10:31 pm
(684) dead head says:

hey matt, why do you know whats best for nascar if you never watch it? real Americans buy American. id just like to know how you think you know whats best for nascar. tell me. we should just let blind people drive, deaf people answer phones and have people who know nothing about carpentry build houses. you see what im saying?

March 19, 2007 at 10:40 pm
(685) MattC says:

to dead head: if it were just ford, dodge and chevy, nascar would be “same race, different day”. why not invite the foreigners and see how they stack up? You’re nervous they would clean up. And thats right, no I dont watch nascar because I dont find it interesting. More competition makes things interesting. And to let you know, I’m not just rooting for Toyota because its my favorite brand or something, I drive a Nissan. I root for Toyota because they are the only ones that represent the Japanese cars at this moment. Once Honda and Nissan come into the picture, you guys will really be screaming.

March 19, 2007 at 10:44 pm
(686) Todd W says:

Well I would disagree and say NASCAR is just as much, if not even more challenging than F1 ‘go carts’. Lets say an F1 car felt like driving a Toyota Camry at 200 mph. In that context a NASCAR would feel like driving a mid seventies station wagon with a boat attached at 200 mph. There’s a lot more car too finesse through the turns in NASCAR.

As far as dirt track racing having nothing to do with NASCAR, that’s the most uneducated statement I have seen you make yet. Modern NASCAR evolved from dirt track racing, fundamentally the racing is the same only on a different surface. Only difference being that ‘slide’ is magnified on dirt for obvious reasons. I myself would find it easier to ‘Rally’ race than run three wide in a draft train at 212 mph, nose to tail in a group of 3000 pound cars.

March 19, 2007 at 10:44 pm
(687) MattC says:

Real Americans may buy american, but smart Americans Buy whats best for their money. So why buy a car that has an american name but itsnt made in America? If real Americans bought American vehicles made with American parts from plants in America that employ Americans: They’d buy a Toyota or something. Right Dead Head?

March 19, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(688) MattC says:

ToddW, you have taken my comment out of context. I said dirt track racing has little to do with the Nascar of TODAY. Nascar of today is just a bunch of identical cars driving around in a circle and its all boring unless someone crashes.

March 19, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(689) Toyota Rocks says:

Todd Post#745.
Dude, where exactly do you gather that America owns the design for the pushrod V8?

March 19, 2007 at 10:49 pm
(690) Todd W says:

Hey Matt, when will you ‘get it’

The foreigners can’t really stack up, because they are using our American parts, and carbon copies of our engine designs from the 1960′s!

Sorry for you that you drive a Nissan

March 19, 2007 at 10:54 pm
(691) Toyota Rocks says:

Hey Matt, he is extremely good at doing that. It’s a shame really that we cannot have an intelligent dialogue here without juvenilistic disruptions.

March 19, 2007 at 10:55 pm
(692) Todd W says:

Let me clarify T Rocks — America owns the design for the kick ass pushrod V8′s that Japenese manufactures have to copy in order to be competitive in an American based motorsport.

I say let them use the limo engines you quoted from…what was it called the Toyota crown in 1967?

: )

March 19, 2007 at 10:56 pm
(693) MattC says:

The foreigners will stack up and time will tell. And if you think you have an unmodified midsized truck that can do better than my Frontier at offroading, I’d like to see it. Mine has more horsepower than a V8 Dakota and thats sad. It also has the most ground clearance and if that isnt enough, its got skid plates under tha gas tank, transfer case, and oil pan. Locking Rear differential puts icing on the cake. I dont think you will ever ‘get it’

March 19, 2007 at 10:58 pm
(694) Toyota Rocks says:

Typical, posting without any factual data. I guess the British who built the pushrod V8 a decade before we did have no rights to it Hu?

March 19, 2007 at 11:00 pm
(695) MattC says:

I agree with toyota rocks. Todd, you just need to accept the fact that other brands are rising up and the big 3 struggle to survive. You should stop now.

March 19, 2007 at 11:03 pm
(696) dead head says:

nascar+toyota=same race, differant day. now that their in the mix, its just one more competitor. so its still the same, but another name.

March 19, 2007 at 11:17 pm
(697) Todd W says:

Were not talking about ‘off roading’ Matt. Or how your Frontier has more horsepower than a Dakota. Furthermore anybody who is serious about off roading, racing, rock crawling, or whatever — modifies the vehicle.

For a fraction of the price of your rough and rugged frontier, I could point out a million Silverado’s all over the place (that are 30 yrs old) that have double the horsepower of your mighty Frontier. See Matt, you are probably the type that would never opt for something like that, because like the majority of Americans, you have to have things made for you. If it wasn’t for jiffy lube, you would never get your own oil changed.

March 19, 2007 at 11:17 pm
(698) NE Man says:

First off, to post 750: what are you even talking about? Who are you talking to to make amends for that post. Its your post. And as for all the engines being the same… how is it fair if Toyota has to make the same engine, rather than actually use their own genius to build an engine. AND given the chance, i bet theyd build one. It isnt stock car racing if all the cars are the same in the first place. And Todd, stop repeating yourself. You sound like Al Gore. Just repeating the same line over and over again isnt gonna make it any more true. Plus, even if GM or ford or dodge owned the patent for the design, the patent has been expired for years. All patents expire, thats where you get store brand products.

March 19, 2007 at 11:20 pm
(699) Toyota Rocks says:

Well it again becomes quite obvious that teenage pc gamers who are super great on those games cannot compete in real life. A shame really that he cannot accept a two sided dialogue. However, with the rest of society rapidly plunging head over heels into the my~space and MTV land corruption, why bother to what others have to say. One day they will have the reins and since they all live in a narrow channeled mind set anyway, nothing will ever get accomplished. History will be erased because they all know it better, mistakes will never happen because admission to something is OMG ever so wrongful.

They have no respect for each other, and it is quite clear, whatever he wants to say, rather valid or not, is going to be said.

I guess the term of the day is “whatever”, and really means more than just whatever.

So dude, all of your theories have been disproved. All of your myths have been demystified. And Toyota will be at the race come Bristol. So in the terms of your generation, WHATEVER DUDE!

March 19, 2007 at 11:22 pm
(700) NE Man says:

You boast about how cheap you can make this, or make that or modify this. You say you could do so much for cheaper than a Toyota. Prove it. Provide proof. The thing i see here consistently with you Todd, is that you dont back up your “facts”. You talk about this and that but dont back it up. So start backing it up or we wont take you seriously.

March 19, 2007 at 11:23 pm
(701) Todd W says:

No brilliant the patent isn’t expired…

they are still producing all of those motors and parts in the crate. There is a huge industry that cater to that (an American industry)

March 19, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(702) NE Man says:

Just because the patent expires doesnt mean they cant manufacture the product “oh so brilliant one”. Its called a free market economy.

March 19, 2007 at 11:33 pm
(703) dead head says:

my brothers 82 f-100 is unstopable off road. bone stock. and its only rwd! we pulled a tacoma out of a ditch once when there was 8 inchs of snow on the ground. you cant say your trucks best offroad. its based on driver skill.my sister got her89 diplomat buried to the frame in mud, but got it out with a little rocking. what im saying is your statement is not valid. you can have the biggest baddest truck, but if suck at driving offroad, or on, it doesnt matter. plus i thought them trucks are fullsized?

March 19, 2007 at 11:36 pm
(704) Toyota Rocks says:

NE Man, that post is to dude, referencing his post #735, where HE can change peoples moniker to suite HIM in any derogatory, or belittling manner as HE sees fit.

However, you see how much data he has provided to back up ANY his claims.

I’ll quote this much thou, “America is considered the home of the pushrod V8″. So again, he just changes a few facts to suite his needs and posts it to the net in an attempt to be impressive.

However, we both know from yesterday, he is not capable of providing anything except belittling, derogatory, or mis-quoted phrases to suite his current need.

He is a true example of the “Internet Troll”. However, I like feeding him, because he is both so predictable in his replies, as well as humorous.

March 19, 2007 at 11:36 pm
(705) Todd W says:

NE Man wrote –

Here’s your ‘proof’


See that rating? 550 horse power for a little over 5 thousand dollars. Those motors are everywhere. Show me any Japanese engine that can make those numbers (for that price) that you can bolt into a car

Now prove to me you can

Remember when you said you knew nothing of mechanics NE Man — you’re right; you don’t!! Go and learn something.

March 19, 2007 at 11:40 pm
(706) NE Man says:

BTW, the V8 engines produced by Toyota go into the Lexus. That is, if you dont know this already though im sure you do, todd because you know everything, Toyotas luxury line. So, in a way, yes Toyota is producing vehicles with a V8, no they arent in the camry. People dont buy the vehicles with a V8 because they dont need a vehicle with power. Some of us dont need to compensate.

March 19, 2007 at 11:41 pm
(707) Toyota Rocks says:

You want a real engine?
740Bhp, 19,000 RPMs.
The size of a shoe box!

Beat it with ANY American engine, ANY!


March 19, 2007 at 11:48 pm
(708) Todd W says:

NE Man, see that motor I linked (see the layout of it?) That’s nothing like the V8 in the Lexus, nothing like anything you will find in a Toyota. That is an American engine, and the one Toyota copied to pretend they are some kind of competitor in NASCAR.

You told me to show you proof that we can do this and that cheaper. There’s your proof, now show me any Japanese engine that can produce the power of that motor for that price. Do that and I will quit.

March 19, 2007 at 11:53 pm
(709) NE Man says:

Dude, that the NASCAR engine. You cant get a Toyota engine from NASCAR. At least not yet. At this point its like comparing apples and oranges. If youre going to argue so strongly against Toyota, find a fusion engine from NASCAR too. I bet you wont be able to.

March 19, 2007 at 11:53 pm
(710) Toyota Rocks says:

It would appear that you have already been outdone.
However, we all know you cannot accept being disproved.
So, I’ll retire now, why don’t you go play another round of NASCAR Challenge, then Midnight Madness, and top it with GTA.
Then go back to my!space a finish bragging before you have to get to school in the morning.

Toyota IS in NASCAR, accept it.
Toyota HAS done everything you said they needed to do. Now just go ahead and take it like a dude, dude.

Toyota will prevail in NASCAR.

March 19, 2007 at 11:56 pm
(711) Todd W says:

No that isn’t a NASCAR engine (it’s one of a million small block chevys out there with aluminum heads bolted on(it just happens to be assewmbled by a NASCAR builder.

Hell a ‘NASCAR’ engine would bolt directly into my 70 Chevelle (they are of the same design!!!)

March 20, 2007 at 12:01 am
(712) Todd W says:

No NE Man that isn’t a NASCAR engine. Do you think you can pick a NASCAR engine up for under 6 grand???

That is like a million ither small block Chevy motors out there, with aluminum heads bolted on. It was only assembled by a supposed NASCAR builder.

In any case the NASCAR Chevrolet engines would bolt directly into my 70 Chevelle — That’s how ‘American’ the design is!

March 20, 2007 at 12:24 am
(713) dead head says:

yout cant compare that toyota engine to nascar engines.todd, youll understand this.summit racing; gm zz 502 big block, 502 hp @ 5200 rpms. that toyota engine makes 740 hp @ 19000 rpm. 19000! only because the mass of the reciprocating assembly has much more momentum. compare them. how much horse power do you think that gm makes @19000 rpm. simple concept. dont belive me, go to summit racing and search 502 gm crate engine. thats proof!

March 20, 2007 at 12:42 am
(714) dead head says:

add a weiand 8-71 supercharger and you have about 650 hp. and if you want, add n20 and you can have about 750-800 hp!!! and you can buy one and put it in just about any gm. you cant even buy that toyota engine. top that with any publicly avalible, street leagal and emmisions leagal toyota engine.

March 20, 2007 at 1:40 am
(715) Todd W says:

I agree!! At least Dead head knows what he’s talking about. Everyone in support of Toyota; the basics of the engines, and everything else has to explained a million times over to them.

Simply put — they don’t know even a liotle bit of what their talking about

March 20, 2007 at 1:45 am
(716) Todd W says:

Hey McCormick!!

Do us all a favor and go with a free php forum. This 700 post scroll, plus not having the ability to properly quote somebody is a jumbled waste of time.

March 20, 2007 at 2:43 am
(717) dead head says:

look up merlin engines while your at summit. they are the big guns. hey, jim oddy, a drag racer has his shop right around the corner from me. im gonna see if he can get ahold of a high performance toyota engine. then ill go ask mike janis whos shop is down the road and around the corner if he can.i bet he cant. then ill get prices and specs for their motors and compare them with a toyota. they are big players. they know a thing or two about engines,maybe i can get them to post here to clear things up.

March 20, 2007 at 3:54 am
(718) dead head says:

and to top it all off, they are all proven and trusted engines. American muscle! its nice to see someone here with knowlege in this subject so i have a chance to get technical and it doesnt fall upon blind eyes. and for the more costly transmissions, you could get into richmond gears six speeds. another time tested and proven name for high performance. this site is a magnet for trouble makers like 785, dont even respond because they just want attention.

March 20, 2007 at 8:34 am
(719) Toyota Rocks says:

Amazing! Wow! Dude, figure it out. That is the same crap you were posting Monday. You got pwned! You are now entertaining deja vu!. Everything you have already said that was not, has been demystified. Everything you said has been proven to be a fallacy. And here you are again, posting the same obtuse single channel out in left field irrevelant mind numbing fallacies.

Don’t you get it? Like you said, GM gave them what they needed in order to meet the stanmdards requirements. If they woul not have, then you would be here crying foul, because Toyota was using a smaller displacment, higher horsepower engine. Or they would had transferred over a different engine, and again you would be screaming foul.

So what is it exactly that you don’t get?

Toyota did build RWD V8 cars earlier in their franchise, the current model is equipped with a V12.
Toyota does have several varities of race teams, with I4-V12 engines.
Toyota does build a consumer product for the US market, in THE USA no less.

So, if you don’t like it, just say so. Just say I don’t like Toyota in NASCAR because it ruins it for me.

But, we here can all attest to the fact you have to have the last say in everything. You will type in whatever you need to type in to prove yourself superior, even if it’s a bold faced fallacy. You will manipulate other peoples post’ to garner it to your simpleton thought process so you can remain the undisputed internet-troll that you are.

However, come next race day, Toyota will be there, running a mandated simplified version of an American V8 engine, mounted in the same for all manufacturers chasis, and will go throught the same inspection process as the other three brands.

In conclusion, your fallacies are just that. Your data is self cenetered, biased, and unsupportive of any of your claims. All of your claims for Toyota to even be allowed into NASCAR have been met. So, see you at the race track.

March 20, 2007 at 9:28 am
(720) Steve McCormick says:

If you guys want a real forum then go to the forum. The original post (mine) is actually a link into the forum. There is also a link on the left-hand side of every page that says “Forums.”

These are blog comments. One of the downsides of blog comments is that they don’t page.

March 20, 2007 at 1:52 pm
(721) Todd W says:

Just on a side note, this messageposted in the forum by 1970gmc sums up the indusry debate perfectly –

Toyota is as American as Chevy, Dodge, and Ford?

1. Let’s see, Chevy, Dodge, and Ford have been building cars here for over 100 years.

2. They have tooled up, supported, and helped this country win two world wars (which side did Toyota support?). If necessary, and I hope it never is, they will help us win another one. Will the Toyota Corporation do the same?

3. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have employed hundreds of millions of people here in the US. GM is the second largest provider of health insurance in this country. If you live in this country, chances are you know someone who works directly for the big three or for a company who supplies parts for their vehicles.

4. Dodge, Chevy, and Ford has supported our country by paying some of the largest corporate taxes in America. The non-american car companies choose some of the poorest areas of the country and then negotiate with the state and local governments to receive “sweetheart” tax deals or threaten to take their much needed jobs elseware. If the big three were given the same “deals” they would be kicking the competitions collective butts.

5. General Motors is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Ford is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Dodge, a subsidary of Damlier Chrysler, is officially listed as a GERMAN-AMERICAN COMPANY. Toyota is officially listed as a JAPANESE COMPANY.

6. For every vehicle General Motors sells a little more than 9 jobs in the US are supported (ABC World News Tonight, May 2005). Why is this? Because GM still uses more AMERICAN MADE parts in their vehicles than the non-american car companies do. In fact it is the Japanese Auto Manufacturing Associations (which Toyota is a member of) position to use as many parts as possible from other countries (Detroit Auto News).

I have to agree with the majority of people posting to this site…..KEEP TOYOTA OUT OF NASCAR

March 20, 2007 at 3:51 pm
(722) Toyota Rocks says:

Brilliant Dude. We have agreement.

I fully agree with your assesment of the NASCAR setup. They are ALL identical. And yes Toyota did not have to create one. Why? Because they are ALL identical.

However, you said “Toyota never produced or had any experience with a RWD V8 car. And they should at least have had to produce one, even if it didn’t sell well”. And of course, we agreed on that with the 1960′s through 1997 RWD V8 Century.

Which now leads us back to moderen era NASCAR.

For several years Ford has ran a RWD V8 on the track, but you could not but it at the dealer. Taurus, Fusion.
For several years Dodge ran a RWD V8 at the track, but you could not buy it at the dealer. Intrepid.
For intermitent years Chevy had RWD V8 cars on the track that could not be purchased at the dealer. Lumina.

So again what you say and what you mean do not mean exactly the same. It’s ok that Dodge and Ford don’t have to meet the standard, but Toyota does? Got it!

Exciting from Toyota? You must diversify your TV channels, FOX news does not report the real deal. The new Toyota is capable of 51 MPG on the highway, and 60 in town.

There is a multitude of reasons why we don’t compete in F1, however, money and fan base is the single most draw back in this country.

However, NASCAR is the common mans racing sport here, and Toyota is a common mans car. Therefore, Toyota has enetered into NASCAR rather if you keep changing hurdles or not, they are here.

March 20, 2007 at 5:00 pm
(723) Todd W says:

Well Matt, you don’t have to announce to us all how you are going to ‘post and run’ — we all know your still here reading away…

To Toyota ‘Rocks’

You don’t understand the vehicles you’re talking about T and that’s obvious just by reading your posts.

No, the domestic three don’t have to ‘meet’ the standard; because the domestic three have already invented the ‘standard’ years ago. They are the standard! Regardless of that, all three still fit the ‘standard’ –

Ford — Every police cruiser of your town USA fits the standard. Let alone, they are about to go forward with the Ford Interceptor that is spot on to the ‘standard’. Not to mention the Mustang which is the ‘standard’ and has been in production here since 1964.

Chevrolet the same with the Monte Carlo SS — It is a V8, RWD chief. As was and is the latest Camaro due out in ’09.

Dodge the same — The Charger, 300 C, is of the ‘standard’

Not to mention all of those names are direct descendants of the ‘standard’. Problem is T — you don’t understand the ‘standard’ whatsoever.

As to them not offering the ‘standard’ with the Lumina etc. That’s alright you see, and the reason is — those American crate motors, identical in design to the ones sitting in the NASCAR’s that are the ‘standard’, have been available to the American buyer since their inception. As is each and every part behind them. Products such as Willwood, Hurst, Goodyear, Comp cams, MSD, Moog, Edelbrock, Holley, Milodin, Flowmaster, Autometer, Mr. Gasket, Raybestos, Penske, — Those are all ‘American’ based companies, that engineer ‘American’ based performance parts. Without them you would have no NASCAR. That’s why the cars are covered with those contig stickers. Because without those American parts — Those car’s couldn’t perform the way they do.

That Century you keep bringing up to strengthen your case in desperation, really shows how naive you are when it comes down to it. It just proves you have no working concept of the American small block engine. Furthermore, those obsolete ‘Centuries’ never appeared here on this continent.

The only Century ever offered in north America was a Buick sonny! And no T, all of the car’s are not all identical. The Ford small block is not identical to the Chevrolet; In fact it runs totally backwards to it. If you haven’t ever noticed, even the distributors are mounted at the front of the block as opposed to the rear on the GM’s.

They do however share the same basic design which is strictly ‘American’. Long duration, over head, ‘roller’ cam, 90 degree V8′s, with a four bolt main crank shaft, forged flat top high compression pistons, American ‘roller’ timing sets, domestic engineered aluminum cylinder heads, and on and on.

Toyota in the decades of it’s existence hasn’t introduce anything to fit that ‘standard’ …and to this day have yet to offer a simple RWD, V8 passenger car to the public on the north American continent. While the other manufacturers are still introducing models that do, and continuing to innovate on their own design. Toyota has no business in NASCAR because it has nothing in common with the ‘standard’ you fail to comprehend. Obviously you have never had the chance to lift a hood and even play around with a small block domestic engine, let alone feel the performance of one under your right foot….And that’s sad.

March 20, 2007 at 5:58 pm
(724) Toyota Rocks says:

Ah yes daddy-o. Sonny here reporting in for duty.

I keep feeding you because you are so humorous, and ever so predictable. Just as soon as somebody gets close to showing how deep your fallacies are, you change it up, mix the groove, and through out a new remix.

You see, that Toyota race engine is far more capable than that of your hometown GM hoopty build. But it’s because people of the fan base would cry foul if Toyota were allowed to use it (or a variant thereof) in NASCAR. So, as you pointed out, through sanction rules, Toyota was asked to use their (NASCAR) engine to allow the other cars some form of competition.

The reason I keep bringing up that Toyota Century RWD V8 car, is to keep you in check about the fact you claimed Toyota never built a RWD V8 automobile.

The other reason I keep mentioning the other cars, variants, and engines is to keep reminding you that your claim of Toyota having to borrow that technology from GM, which we all know is another fallacy created solely by you.

However, I don’t see your point about my town police. Again, you have produced another fallacy. Where I roam, the Police cruisers are black Dodge Chargers, which the last time I checked was not a product of Ford. Additionally, Chevy Tahoe SUVs are what the guys that don’t run traffic drive, again not a product of Ford. Alas, there is one point for your effort. The chief does have a Ford, it’s a run of the mill crown vic.

So now daddy-o, you know me as well? Too bad so sad. You see that barn out back there? Not all things are as they appear. In that barn sits 3 Fords. You probably have no idea of their origin, and you probably never new Ford built that kind of engine. However, the first one is a ’67 Ford Mustang Fastback body with a special emblem emblazoned on it. Under the hood is not a 429. In Fact under the hood is a Ford pure 427 SOHC (yes, with the plug wires through the patented FORD blue and cast grey 427 SOHC valve covers).

The second one is a 1967 Ford Shelby ALL original GT 350 with the 390 in it.

The third one is “MY” toy. It is a completely custom rebuilt and enhanced body off frame restoration project. It’s a 1970 Plymouth. Yes, it has the wing!

And you are correct, I have never experienced the performance of a domestic small block. I have no need for such diminutive weakness.

But Toyota has just as much right to be in NASCAR as that Plymouth sitting in the barn!

But as far as sad goes, you have degraded GM and NASCAR through your false, biased, and untrue statements of everything you posted from the first post where you bashed Southern Girl. And that daddy-o is why your voice falls onto deaf ears on this forum.

March 20, 2007 at 6:00 pm
(725) dead head says:

matt, it is a common sense answer to your questian. if you cant figure out why then you must not beable to cross the street without getting hit. and why do you think toyota doesnt import diesels? its a two part answer. i give you a hint, money. and dont bring up the old ones, because them are done and over with. why dont they import them im 2007? then reconsider bashing the big three about moving jobs to save money because they are going under. and why? people dont buy American, so they lose profit.

March 20, 2007 at 6:21 pm
(726) Todd W says:

First of all to these comments

T – Rocks –


Well it shouldn’t be a 429 under the hood T; Because the 429 was never offered in a 67 Mustang.

And what you’re describing with the ‘patented’ ‘wires through the valve covers’ isn’t a trait of the 427 (or ‘side oiler’ Ford) That’s a rare ‘Boss’ feature — in fact that’s a rare feature found on the ‘Boss’ 429 T! You mean to tell me you own a 69 – 70 date coded 429 ‘Boss’ engine (which would be worth about 30 grand just as it sits) …and you go around describing it as a 427???

Your arguments have been lame, but anybody with the name of ‘Toyota rocks’ having to stoop to lying about three almost six figure muscle cars in their garage is the epitome of lame.

Took you awhile to look that info up huh? Too bad you got the 427 mixed up with the Boss 429 — LMFAO!!

…And about that 67 Shelby sitting in your barn (the one with the ‘original’ 390) I hate to break it to you ‘T’ but the 390 was never offered in the 67 Shelby GT 350. Hence ‘GT 350′ designates a small block ford. The ’390′ is a big block Ford, and never available in a Shelby prepped Mustang. The engine was a bored out 289.

WOW…I don’t really know what to say. Especially seeing how you had to lie that you actually owned an barn full of rare muscle cars. Way to go Ace!!


March 20, 2007 at 6:53 pm
(727) dead head says:

todd, you didnt bring up the power companies bucket trucks, mostly old gmcs and fords, emergency vehicles like fire trucks, ambulances and rescue trucks, tow trucks, goverment vehicles and the many highway department trucks for plowing, line painting and road maintenance. now why do they only buy American vehicles? they know how imporant it is to buy American. keep jobs here by buying American. remember, the money goes to an American company.

March 20, 2007 at 7:32 pm
(728) Toyota Rocks says:

So you see dude, I’m supposed to be what? Running for the hills?

Looking for a place to bury my head?

Humiliated beyond belief?

Nope to none of the above. Because that
story line is no more farther in left field than anything you have ever posted here. EVER!

So dude, internet troll. Who really gets the last laugh?

Whoever comes along and reads anything EVER posted by YOU!



Oops, I inadvertantly posted a picture link. Please don’t click it.

March 20, 2007 at 7:33 pm
(729) Todd W says:

Hey Dead head, have you seen inside ‘MY’ barn?

Why I’ve got ol’ George Barris himself shackled to the foundation of it. Just so he can keep my vast collection show worthy no doubt, which include –

The original Torino from Starsky and Hutch with ‘the correct’ 351 in it.

sitting right next to that…

The original ‘batmobile’ from the TV series (only I’ve swapped out the engine, and replaced it with a jet turbine just for the hell of it….Don’t key that one up in the barn!!!)

The Beach boys ‘Little duece coupe’ that’ll do a hundred and forty in the top end Ford!

sitting next to that…

The original wreckage of James Deans 550 Porsche (which is undergoing a meticulous restoration as we speak)

sitting next to those…

Jan and Deans stingray sitting right along side of the ‘XKE’ that pulled up on the right.

When I get everything in order, I’m going to have to dig a shallow grave, and plant ol’ Barris out there in the corn field, then start charging admission just to see it all!

March 20, 2007 at 7:50 pm
(730) Todd W says:

Hey T…there’s just a few minor problems with that.

I can tell by that dash that isn’t a 1967 Mustang, furthermore Mustang hoods don’t open in reverse like that. Looks to me like a Ford Thunderbird. Now how would you explain that???

Oh yeah, you never explained how your ‘original’ 67 GT350 wound up with a 390 in it either. Were all dying to hear the explanation (I know I am)

Why don’t you just come clean and post a pic of your high mileage Toyota Corolla.

March 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm
(731) Toyota Rocks says:

I told you not too click it!

Darn it, you just got PWNED AGAIN!

“And what you’re describing with the ‘patented’ ‘wires through the valve covers’ isn’t a trait of the 427 (or ’side oiler’ Ford) That’s a rare ‘Boss’ feature — in fact that’s a rare feature found on the ‘Boss’ 429 T! You mean to tell me you own a 69 – 70 date coded 429 ‘Boss’ engine (which would be worth about 30 grand just as it sits) …and you go around describing it as a 427???”

Oops, LOOKS like THAT IS a 427 SOHC.

But you were warned!

I never said that one was original, but you ever so craftfully FELL into it!


March 20, 2007 at 8:08 pm
(732) Toyota Rocks says:

In the begining!


OopsI I posted another link.

Maybe in 5 more years it will be, A hard nights work!

March 20, 2007 at 8:12 pm
(733) Toyota Rocks says:

Oh Dude, Todd W dude.

Didn’t you say, as in Todd W the man say?

““And what you’re describing with the ‘patented’ ‘wires through the valve covers’ isn’t a trait of the 427 (or ’side oiler’ Ford) That’s a rare ‘Boss’ feature — in fact that’s a rare feature found on the ‘Boss’ 429 T! You mean to tell me you own a 69 – 70 date coded 429 ‘Boss’ engine (which would be worth about 30 grand just as it sits) …and you go around describing it as a 427???”

In your earlier post? Wasn’t it like Post#796

“Todd W says:
March 20, 2007 at 6:21 pm”

And then you clicked the picture link and what did you FIND?

Oh my dead head, you found a 427 SOHC Ford motor!


March 20, 2007 at 8:12 pm
(734) Todd W says:

Hey Matt, don’t jump so fast — I don’t think you have ‘won’ anything here.

..and Trocks –

So in other words; you lied. Ahh, okay.

Nice to see you back too Matt, guess you have been reading along — so obviously as I predicted you lied as well.

Hey Matt I’m not really impressed by a 700 horse twin turbo motor. Especially when you can get that figure from an American V8 without any sort of turbo. Now imagine if somebody twin turboed that 502 Dead head had mentioned.

that’s over 1000 horse right there, plus it’s generating something the Supra lacks — and that’s gobs of Tourqe. Tourqe is what gets all that glass and steel up and moving Matt.

As far as the 350Z goes (and I thought it was us Americans that had to go ‘retro’ because we had no direction)

The turbo six offered from Buick in the eighties is a lot more reliable, and can stand up to a lot more power (not to mention is just a lot faster) than the ‘Z’

March 20, 2007 at 8:26 pm
(735) MattC says:

Todd, you’re still at it… in denial and out of facts. The twin turbo (stock) supra offered 320 hp, and 315 torque. So you lied….it did have loads of torque. Not more torque than horsepower like what you find in V8′s but thats the point. There is no V8 because it isnt needed. As for the grand national, it only had 235 HP and 330 torque- so its a little bit of give and take. If a stock supra raced a stock grand national, the supra would win because it has more horsepower in the higher rpm range….The GN might get it off the start due to its 15 more ft-lbs of torque, but the supra would catch it and beat it. And if the Grand National is all you can come up with to compete against a supra, I’d say you’ve exhausted all your resources. Buick is just another pathetic branch of GM that makes the same car over and over again.

March 20, 2007 at 8:40 pm
(736) Todd W says:


See that Matt? That’s with stock block and heads — no twin turbo

10 second car.

When you compare that cost wise to build, the Supra doesn’t even match up period. That’s why those things out number Supra’s at any local strip. It’s cheaper to build, maintain, and offers a lot more performance.

March 20, 2007 at 8:45 pm
(737) Toyota Rocks says:

Sorry Todd, but no I did not lie. I just miss typed, I really meant to type 67 Ford GT 390. My sincere apologies on that.

March 20, 2007 at 8:49 pm
(738) MattC says:

You go to cardomain to try to prove a point. While you’re on that site why dont you browse over to toyota or nissan and look at some pretty impressive supras or skylines… But we quickly stray away from the point by going to cardomain and looking at cars that people have done things to. You just dont like the fact that when you put one (stock) car next to another, the foreign one is usually better in more ways than the domestic brand. And I emphasize the word brand because thats all the big 3 are. Just brands.

March 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm
(739) MattC says:

However, Todd I do admire your unwillingness to give up on the brands that have deserted you and everyone else. You’d probably take a bullet for GM. Hold on, let me get my AR

March 20, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(740) Todd W says:

Right Toyota — because it’s so easy to get ‘Shelby 350′ confused with a GT 390 right?

I don’t think so, normally the big ‘Shelby 350GT graphic’ running along side the car would make it an impossible mistake for anybody who halfway knows what their talking about.

So Toyota if your so behind Toyota performance cars; why aren’t you lying that you own a Toyota performance car instead of an American one???

…And oh yeah Matt

If by chance that guy did bolt a twin turbo onto that stock ‘boring’ GM car, it would be running mid 7′s!!!

March 20, 2007 at 8:59 pm
(741) Toyota Rocks says:

Yes Todd W you are correct.

Just like you really didn’t mean to type Toyota has never built a RWD V8 car, Correct?

Oops, you did type that. Then you got pwned with the Toyota Century.


March 20, 2007 at 9:15 pm
(742) Todd W says:


And Toyota (and everybody else reading this waste of time)

Here’s The Toyota Century that Toyota Rocks is so proud of, to have engineered a V8, and should automatically qualify Toyota into the ranks of NASCAR (just try to ignore the obvious fact that….it’s a limousine!!!) Plus the most current V8 is of an inline ‘L’ design. doh!

Hey Matt, drive up to a group of Marines just back from the middle east in your Toyota, stick your head out the window and ask them if they would take a bullet from General Motors. Make sure to ask a group that has been spared serious injury or maiming from a road side IED from the reinforced structure of a General Motors armored vehicle.

I’m sure your up for that, and don’t forget to have a camera rolling so you can post the consequences of asking such a stupid question as that here.

March 20, 2007 at 9:20 pm
(743) Todd W says:

Well Toyota Rocks aka whoever, that was….lame.

Funny how I don’t feel the need to make sock puppet accounts to engage you in a debate here. Way to go!

March 20, 2007 at 9:23 pm
(744) Todd W says:

Hey McCormick!!!

Shouldn’t that be an automatic I.P ban for someone actually admitting their using multiple I.D’s in the blog here?

March 20, 2007 at 9:33 pm
(745) NE Man says:

I think its funny how he hates Toyota and still stuck up for them, granted with a different I.D. He still gave you a run for the money. Whether he was two people or not, his point about the V8 is valid. The point was that they had a V8 and by bringing it up, he proved you didnt know what you were talking about when you said they had never made a V8. He didnt say that automatically qualified them. And as for the other brands not having the vehicles availible to the public, they should. You are a hypocrite for saying they dont need to have them and Toyota does. Also, the Toyota V8′s, the current ones, are in the Lexus. So dont say they dont have one currently.

March 20, 2007 at 9:34 pm
(746) Todd W says:

That was ‘for’ General Motors Matt…take a bullet ‘for’ just to clarify. (I’m prone to these keyboarding mistakes as is anybody)

But I would really like you to answer the question and not hide from it Matt! Or are you all the same person hiding behind different names, because you can’t think of any other better tactic to get your misguided logic across??

Oh yeah, and make sure you also tell that group of Marines (that has been shielded from the protective structure of that GM vehicle) — how you think Toyota could have made a better ‘Humvee’ for the United States military well you’re at it Matt.

Let me just post this again while I’m at it….

General Motors is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Ford is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Dodge, a subsidary of Damlier Chrysler, is officially listed as a GERMAN-AMERICAN COMPANY. Toyota is officially listed as a JAPANESE COMPANY.

March 20, 2007 at 9:36 pm
(747) MattC says:

Todd, if I asked marines if they would want to take a bullet for general motors, they would probably say “we’ve dodged more than enough bullets for this stupid war-Operation Iraqi Freedom…we dont want to take bullets for the Rag Heads, why would we want to take bullets for a car company?

March 20, 2007 at 9:41 pm
(748) MattC says:

besides, this is about you taking a bullet for a car company. You dragged the marines in this in an effort to make yourself sound not so pathetic about saying such a stupid statement.

March 20, 2007 at 9:45 pm
(749) MattC says:

but if you like, I could get a camera, and film you take a bullet shot by marines just back from Iraq….all for a car company

March 20, 2007 at 10:42 pm
(750) Ban dead head says:

There you go Todd W.
You just go jump up and down and stomp your feet at however runs this forum.

I’m sure they will be quick to react to your requests demands.

March 20, 2007 at 11:11 pm
(751) The Aetheist says:

Whats up Todd dude?
You carry on more conversations with yourself again?

You wouldn’t be trying to bury where you kinda got your foot lodged into your mouth would you?

Now you see, when you bash a woman around me, you will pay. And pay deeply, and harshly. If I can’t get my hands on you, I’ll take out with wits.

I still get a good chuckle about that FORD 427 SOHC line. Dude, still has me laughing.

What do you say again? From post #796 was it?
“Took you awhile to look that info up huh? Too bad you got the 427 mixed up with the Boss 429 — LMFAO!!”


Who’s laughing now dude?

Hey Southern Girl if you still frequent here, Todd is greased, roped, lathered, and ready for some feathers. Then he can be seen for what he really is, what a chicken leaves behind after eating.

American made by American workers for the American consumer. toyota has no right to be in NASCAR, ever.

March 21, 2007 at 12:11 am
(752) Todd W says:

Here’s the quotes again (maybe it will work this time Steve??)
#822-Toyota has no right to be in NASCAR ever>
#794-Toyota has just as much right to be in NASCAR as that Plymouth sitting in the barn!
#794-The second one is a 1967 Ford Shelby ALL original GT 350 with the 390 in it.
#808-Sorry Todd, but no I did not lie. I just miss typed, I really meant to type 67 Ford GT 390. My sincere apologies on that.
Which I responded with —
#811-Right Toyota — because it’s so easy to get ‘Shelby 350′ confused with a GT 390 right?I don’t think so, normally the big ‘Shelby 350GT graphic’ running along side the car would make it an impossible mistake for anybody who halfway knows what their talking about.

…And obviously you don’t have a clue.

March 21, 2007 at 12:20 am
(753) mike l says:

man, what a good time to pop in! matt, dont speak for the marines. todd, you should of directed that towards me. i would take a bullet for gm. that humvee saved me and 3 other marines lives. only messed up the front axle and some brake lines! while i later messed up my hand on one, it was my fault. oh yeah, matt, take that ar of yours and and ask the marines what they think about you owning it, of course after they read what you wrote here. if only you knew how hard im laughing. AH HA HA HA

March 21, 2007 at 12:35 am
(754) Todd W says:


Here’s what a Boss 429 looks like ‘whoever’

Note the plug location in through the valve covers. You see these motors are waaaay more common place than the rare, experimental, hand built, designed solely for racing, in incredibly small numbers, and which only found their way into top name NACSAR, NHRA racers hands — engine you found online after playing google…

…Gee, no wonder I suspected that you must have the production Ford ‘semi – hemi’ linked above in your ‘barn’ instead.

…The barn that is a figment of your imagination lets not forget, along with the cars with the incorrect motors installed, and the 70 Plymouth ‘ME’ project with the wing.

How witty! Let’s all clap for you now : )

March 21, 2007 at 12:41 am
(755) Todd W says:

..and yes Mike I agree. The one thing that really sort of pissed me off the most here from the Toyota supporters above all else, was the ignorant comment of ‘would you take a bullet for GM?’

Or in other words — ‘would you take a bullet for American industry’

Out of all the dumb comments made in these 800 plus posts (even a few by me no doubt) that one takes top honors.

March 21, 2007 at 12:43 am
(756) Steve McCormick says:

The comments are working just fine… but as the rules above clearly state. No foul language.

Many of Todd W’s posts are going straight into the dumpster, including some very entertaining posts, because of the language filter.

Say it cleanly or don’t bother.

March 21, 2007 at 2:41 am
(757) Todd W says:

You are aware of how much I admire you at this point don’t you Steve?

March 21, 2007 at 8:52 am
(758) The Aetheist says:

Morning All, hope we have all had a wonderful laugh.

It also appears that a lame shout out has been busted.

For example, A poster by the handle of Todd W, from Post#639 said
“Perhaps if Toyota at least took that ‘I’ force V8 (or whatever it’s called) out of the Tundra, fitted it into a midsize (or even full size) shell with the rear wheels driving it — then it would at least appear to myself that they are serious to some extent to fit the NASCAR ‘mold’, which obviously they aren’t. So they should get out because THEY HAVE NO HISTORY WHATSOEVER WITH V8, RWD’S!!!!”

Then a poster by the handle of Todd W, posted in Post #813 the exact link to a RWD V8.

Lame shout out busted.

Then a poster by the handle of Todd W, in a Post#796 said:
“And what you’re describing with the ‘patented’ ‘wires through the valve covers’ isn’t a trait of the 427 (or ’side oiler’ Ford) That’s a rare ‘Boss’ feature — in fact that’s a rare feature found on the ‘Boss’ 429 T! You mean to tell me you own a 69 – 70 date coded 429 ‘Boss’ engine (which would be worth about 30 grand just as it sits) …and you go around describing it as a 427???”

Then a link was posted:

And another lame shout out was busted.

Do we need to review NASCAR history? Specifically the events where foreign cars DID race?

And was it not the same Todd W that claims he has a Chevelle, and pulled a BB out and replaced it with a SB? And was it not either a 396 or 402, was not sure? Got it.

Yes, we all here can thank Steve for this site. And yes we know that some people are just teenagers, and have no clue really. It’s a shame really, that their lack of knowledge has to be put in check over and over again.

MikeI, do not allow any feelings for this Todd character. He is a woman basher, and a fluke. In our language, he is a “sarge”!

Semper Fi, Bro! We shall drink a cold one upon your return.

March 21, 2007 at 8:59 am
(759) Root says:

This place has changed.

Thank you Steve for cleaning it up.

March 21, 2007 at 1:05 pm
(760) FordFan says:

Okay, over 800 posts & no mention of the founding fathers of NASCAR.Did they rush their goods to market in a minimum cylinder Renault or a Toyota econo box?Of course they didn’t.Were they hauling Saki or mashed grapes?Of course they didn’t.Why were they in such a rush?The United States government didn’t like the competition of tax free spirits.The whole game was a reaction to government imposed restriction.There were no similar restrictions imposed on stomped grapes in France,so no NASCAR there. Is this truely just an American sport?No one does NASCAR in Peru or Brazil.This was founded in the United States.The beginings were HERE!Toyota has no similar beginings in the United States. It makes as much sense as allowing Japan to buy Thanksgiving Day.

March 21, 2007 at 4:25 pm
(761) MattC says:

Well, its been nice posting here… I had a lot of fun seeing people get worked up over my comments. I’m sure some of you lost sleep over what I said. I still find it hard to believe a marine would step in front of a bullet after having his life spared… kind of a stupid idea to me. I also dont care at all what the marines think of me having an AR-15. The only way they can have a similar gun is to enlist in the military. And I’m sure nobody has done that just for the sole purpose of being able to shoot an M16. Anyway, before I get off subject too far, I’ll answer the question this message board is all about: Does toyota ruin nascar for you? Heck no. Its the best thing that ever happened to nascar, and the proof is right here in this message board. The vast majority of americans hate toyota for various reasons. That makes Toyota the new underdog. I love rooting for the underdog in all sports, but this is way better because I know that eventually they’ll come out on top. I’m not saying they’ll win every race, they’ll need good drivers too. But it will certanly make nascar more exciting because Toyota is an outsider and they will have to prove themselves to be a worty opponent of the amazing, fantastic, fabulous, big 3.

March 21, 2007 at 4:46 pm
(762) Todd W says:

Hey Matt, you don’t think the Marines would step in front of a bullet? You think they would run away and hide like you would?

No you see, they wouldn’t…And that’s why their USMC and you’re not. Because unlike you, their willing to sacrifice themselves for anything ‘American’

As most American’s would if it presented with such a situation. We all already know you would ‘dodge’ when it came to it….So you’re considered something like sub-American if you want to get technical about it.

March 21, 2007 at 4:49 pm
(763) Todd W says:

Back on topic –

Next thing we know, the majority of the overweight Toyota supporters are going to lobby to have the stripes on the flag changed — because they are terrified to be seen wearing, or standing in the proximity of horizontal stripes of any kind.

Honestly, I think the Toyota Camry’s are too reliable for their own good. When you combine tens of thousands of miles in between oil changes, two big plastic mounted XXL soft drink holders, power windows, and a lazy automatic trans to glide them effortlessly into and out of the drive thru windows in this country — What the Toyota’s are actually doing is killing tens of thousands of Americans each day.

I think the Toyota Camry’s should be reserved for the old, and disabled. The remaining overweight Toyota driving public, should be relocated into a vehicle designed to aid them in their obvious health crisis. Let’s put them into just what they want in the worst way anyway!!…A Toyota Camry with 1960′s American V8 technology!!! (And spare me the argument about fuel consumption, we will make the things run on corn, and the grease that is killing these people in the first place anyway!!)

I’m already excited about this idea (Steve alert a publicist or something, and I will even give you half the credit for it) –

Number one — The cars won’t be 100.000 miles in between tune ups anymore, oh no! Their going to be using the old fashioned high maintenance ‘points’ style distributors. There’s a lot more exercise involved in that, like cranking that full size hood open to replace those contact points ever few miles — feel the burn already!

No more power steering either, along with no automatic transmissions. If you can’t work a clutch, you really have no business driving a three thousand pound automobile around, while pointing it in the direction of others anyway….And to keep with our health theme here, I say we install a heavy duty, spring loaded clutch to engage those transmissions with. Imagine the calories lost just driving around in your retro V8 Camry!!

….And you know what the best part is? Why at the end of the week on any given Sunday, while you fry up garden patties with your buddies out in the back yard — You can take great pride by pointing out to each of them how that NASCAR Camry they see on the television set, has a lot in common with your 1960′s resurrection of what an ‘American Camry’ should be in the first place. Sounds like an ‘everybody wins’ scenario to me Steve!

March 21, 2007 at 5:26 pm
(764) H Olsen says:

Toyota. It’s kinda weird feeling. I hope they keep loosing so they pack it in. NASCAR has made all kinds of adjustments in their format in an effort to appeal to as large a customer base as possible. Equalize the cars in any number of ways…..to what end? What’s to gain by giving one car a bigger front valance over another. Why can’t NASCAR / Detroit go back to “win on Sunday…sell on monday. It used to work real well.

March 21, 2007 at 6:38 pm
(765) Todd W says:

Sort of says a lot about Toyota, when it’s star driver has his Toyota impounded for cheating before the flag was even waved for the first appearance of a Japanese car in NASCAR history. I guess free reign to study, and copy the designs, and features of the domestic engines wasn’t good enough (along with cramming every other component to their ‘Camry’ chassis directly from the domestic parts bins)

No, they had to go soak, and cure the element in Michael Waltrip’s fuel filter with some sort of jet fuel compound! I’m positive the Toyota’s are going to keep losing, in fact maybe that’s why NASCAR let them in to begin with — So they could humiliate them right out of Nextel cup by seasons end. (That’s just the overly optimistic side of me thinking though I fear)…And as far as Toyota not having ‘good enough’ drivers to win. Hey, I think they need Japanese drivers to pilot their American inspired, copy cat race cars — I’m sure they would do a lot better than our American drivers would in NASCAR, huh Matt?

The international sport that it is now to invite foriegn companies to come in and welcome them to copy an American design to boost their image, and then hang their name on it of course. (even though the first letter stands for ‘National’in ‘NASCAR’ lets not forget)

We need to get Toyota out of NASCAR pronto, and throw Honda’s bribes to get in back in their faces.

March 21, 2007 at 7:36 pm
(766) Todd W says:

Well….why don’t you cry about it NE man! I can’t help it if you’re overweight and drive some sort of a foreign ‘sub size’ truck. Obviously you are or you wouldn’t be so irate over it all. Gee, guess nobody’s allowed to have a little fun here in an attempt to defuse these little exchanges….

As long as it’s the Toyota guys that get to make fun of anything American no doubt. I would think that you would be more offended by Matt’s ridiculous comments about not understanding why a Marine would take a bullet, than you would me poking a bit of fun at the hordes of overweight Americans driving foreign rigs (such as yourself obviously)

That just proves one thing, that you Toyota supporters (all two of you at this point) have no sense of pride in their own country, and it’s accomplishments past and present. If you go away, who’s going to be left to defend Toyota NE Man?

Matt, who can’t understand the simple concept of sacrifice within not only ours (but any global armed service)?

Aetihiest, aka, Toyota Rocks, aka more than likely ten other names (more than likely yours as well) — Who can’t tell the difference between a vintage Mustang, and Thunderbird? Let alone which engine belongs in which model (oh wait last post he made he wasn’t even supporting Toyota) so I guess he doesn’t even count. Honestly I’m not sure because he’s such an admitted liar. Oh yeah and I almost forgot to do this –

What’s up Aethiest dude?

Thought I was ‘greased’, ‘roped’, and ‘feathered’ and however else that idiot comment described

But back to you NE Man,

Glad you’re done with this site, after all it was me and Steve beaming this directly into your face somehow forcing you to read it all to begin with. Glad to see you go, more room to post for those with some sort of inkling of pride in American product.

Buh bye : )

March 21, 2007 at 8:20 pm
(767) MattC says:

Todd, its obvious your life revolves around this message board. You need people like me and NE Man around or else there would be no comments you could take out of context. Things would get pretty boring if all of you agreed that nascar was perfect the way it is. You want Toyota out “pronto”, and you dont want Honda in at all… Since your ‘american’ cars are so superior, why not let the big 3 run all over Toyota and possibly Honda then? I think you’re worried about a car company that has never competed in nascar become successful. That would get under your skin more than anything. It would probably make you stop watching nascar and post on message boards about racing. Instead, you’d be forced to argue with people on message boards about wether the sky is blue. And as for the marines taking bullets for certain reasons, you brought the marines into this whole thing by yourself. You try your best to twist words around and create scenarios that would never happen. Our armed forces do an excellent job at what they do. Its just too bad the politicians in washington wont let us fight to win. If they did that, a nuke would have been dropped in Iraq in 2003 and the war would have been over for 4 years now, and not one of our marines would have had to go into harms way, much less take a bullet. I also think you fantasize about me pointing a gun at a surburban or something and the 101st airborne runs out to stand in front of it to protect it. They’re brave enough to die for our country, but not stupid enough to die for a company’s reputation. And thats one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard you cook up yet.

March 21, 2007 at 10:12 pm
(768) Todd W says:

Welcome back Matthew. You know, in your last post you might as well have started off with ‘We’ll it’s been nice posting here…I’m not coming back for a few hours.

I thought you enjoyed getting people ‘riled’ up Matthew, come to find out…The only one that’s riled up is yourself. Go figure.

Let me start breaking down your comments and addressing them individually.

Comment one — “Since ‘YOUR’ American cars are so superior, why not let them run all over Toyota, I think your worried about a car company that has never competed in NASCAR before becoming too successful.”

Okay, now follow — I have no problem whatsoever with any foreign car company competing with ‘MY’ American cars. Although I do have a problem with them having to copy past, and proven performance designs of ‘MY’ American cars in order just to compete with them. If Toyota wants to race at speedways in ‘MY’ country, they can construct a race car of ‘their’ own design in order to do so. NASCAR IS ‘MY’ American cars Matthew, and it always has been when we take into account the simple layout of them for more than 50 years now. Understand?

Comment two (off topic) — “You brought the Marines into this”

You’re right I did, because that’s the first thing that popped in my cabasa as soon as you asked me flat out if I would take a bullet for the General Motors Corp. The same American company that fielded thousands of Sherman tanks, Aircraft engines, Armored vehicles (both past and present) including modern day Humvee’s for our fighting forces in two world wars, plus a million other conflicts going on over a century now. Not too mention supplies a good majority of the trucking industry (which is the literal ‘heartbeat’ of this country for decades now)

…Would I take a bullet for them? You bet I would, because there’s a really good chance I’m not going to take a second one due to that 50 caliber propped up on that Humvee they produced in ‘MY’ country. Just like I would take a bullet for Boeing, Ford, Freightliner, Peterbilt and the rest that supply crucial vehicles at a moments notice to keep our critical supply lines moving when we end up in some hot spot outside of ‘MY’ country.

Comment three (off topic) — “If they dropped a nuke in Iraq, we wouldn’t have to take any bullets over there”

Well now, that’s another ignorant comment isn’t it Matthew? You are aware that the majority of Iraq’s population (some eight million alone within Baghdad alone) — aren’t all insurgents. Their women, and children just like in our country Matthew. Honestly, I wouldn’t feel to justified in wiping out some 8 million plus people, not to mention killing double that figure in the proceeding years due to nuclear fall out would you? Gee, you’re just full of ignorant comments aren’t you Matthew?

Here’s a good rule of thumb — think before you post…And think really good. Maybe you need to announce how nice it’s been posting here again, and space out your participation a little more to avoid submitting such ignorant statements as your previous ones.

March 21, 2007 at 10:25 pm
(769) Hummer Dude says:

Dear Sir,

I found this site by accident, and I see there is a little bit of confsion.

I would to direct you to my corporate website where you may become more informed about our US Made products for our military.

Thank You


March 21, 2007 at 10:26 pm
(770) MattC says:

Todd, its taken you several hours to come up with a response to my last post, and I must say…I’m not very impressed. If toyota joined nascar with their own design, it wouldnt be allowed because it would be of somewhat present technology. You know…cams, indipendent suspension, variable intake… Nascar likes to keep it simple with carburated engines and solid rear axles… There are no cars like that on the street. That stuff went away with horses and buggies. Only you ‘oldschool’ domestic car modifiers have that stuff because you dont have the money to buy a nice toyota. Maybe if you got a job and worked, you could afford one, but you sit here an post BS all day. Another fact that I must point out is Sherman tanks were the biggest joke of World War II. If it was completely up to those tanks, we would have most certanly lost the war. The Germans could pick them off before we even had a chance to sight their tanks in. You also seem to forget that we won that war by dropping 2 atom bombs. And not every person that died from those bombs was hostile. But it did end the war, and thats the point I make with the current situation in Iraq…. Another silly point you try to make is all the bullets you would take for all the american companies-why dont you just give up? Do you have any idea how absurd you sound?

March 21, 2007 at 10:30 pm
(771) MattC says:

Come on todd…I dont have all night to hear your response…I have to get up early tomorrow to go to WORK!

March 21, 2007 at 10:35 pm
(772) MattC says:

due to your lack of a response…I’m going to bed. maybe after you stare at the screen and think-really hard, you can come up with a twisted up , out of context response…. Good night todd

March 21, 2007 at 11:17 pm
(773) Todd W says:

First to Hummer dude, I’m not sure if you’re directing the ‘confusion’ line at me or not — but this is from your own supplied link –

“Production began at AM General’s Mishawaka, Indiana plant in the fall of 1984″

Anyway, back to Matthew. Lets see, I guess we’ll start here –

Comment one (Off topic) — “Sherman tanks were the biggest jokes of WWII”

Now they may have been inferior to German panzer division tanks Matthew, but you know why that really didn’t factor in? Because of the sheer numbers produced by American companies like General motors.

Comment two (off topic) — “We won that war by dropping two atom bombs”

Not in the European theatre Matthew. Berlin had already fallen before it came to that. Let alone we dropped those A bombs because the cost of life lost was out weighing the cost of continuing on by conventional means. Extreme situations require extreme measures Matthew. That situation was a totally different ball game. Not only in factoring in the casualties, but that was a full fledged conventional war. The loss of life thus far (although disheartening) in Iraq — isn’t anywhere near that scale. Not to mention we are more or less on a peace keeping mission over there to restore order to the country of Iraq.

Comment three — if Toyota joined NACSAR using their designs they wouldn’t be allowed to compete”

Pre cicely Matthew. Toyota doesn’t conform to the mold of NASCAR, and unlike the domestics in it’s rank; never has. So simple logic should tell you, Toyota doesn’t belong within it’s ranks period.

Comment four — “There are no cars like that on the street…Only you ‘old school’ domestic modifiers have that stuff because you can’t afford a Toyota.

I disagree Matthew, there are a lot of original ‘Muscle cars’ in pristine condition all over the place…and perfectly legal to operate on any public highway. You go price an original 1969 Z28 Camaro, a lot more expensive than your Toyota. Not only that, those cars have yet to decline in value after three plus decades Matthew! How do you explain that? I don’t see any production Toyota’s being sold at the auction block for two million dollars do you Matt? I see a fair number of 30 plus year old American cars though.

You’re right I’m an ‘old school’ builder — and proud of it. I don’t care what kind of Japanese car your driving (or even a Ferrari); nothing drops more jaws then when you pop open the hood to reveal a real factory 426 hemi, or Big Block Chevy with dual 4′s, let alone a roots supercharger assembly whining down your street USA. That stuff sounds, and performs like it looks. Myself I have that modest 327 headered, with two and a half inch exhaust feeding into 2 chambered flowmaster’s, that ends in short ‘turn downs’ pointed at the street. I don’t even have to recklessly race it around unlike you ‘Import’ builders. Why I can just creep through the local starbicks parking lot, and set off scores of alarms on those goofy looking imports just by the reverberation of my exhaust pipes alone.

Unlike yourself, I don’t need a ‘sound system’ and a fart pipe exhaust installed to turn heads when I roll around my town Matthew.

March 21, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(774) dead head says:

hey matt, did you read steves rules? mostly the third one. if its supposed to get deleted, then why waste your time posting? while im off topic, i thought you said you were leaving? just cant stay away huh? i was gonna leave myself after everyone turned into hipocrites, but just had to see what people were saying about me. has any one noticed no waltrip on the track? i thought his team was gonna be the best. oh wait,his teams just not ready yet.must be because he spends to much time on his hair and makeup.

March 21, 2007 at 11:30 pm
(775) Todd W says:

…And another thing (since I’m on a tangent here)

I don’t need any ‘fancy shmancy’ alarm to keep my car where I park it Matthew. We ‘old school’ guys improvise. All I have to do is mount the toggle switch to that Holley blue electric fuel pump (that flows sufficient enough to fill a swimming pool) way up under the dash where no ‘thief’ is ever going to look for it. That and an American pitt that rides shotgun — are the only lines of defense I need against auto theft Matthew.

And let’s face it, a red 1970 Chevelle with black sport stripes, catches a lot more eyes in a parking lot than your average, cookie cutter import with the mandatory 2 foot spoiler, body kit, and ‘Neuspeed’ banner across the windshield. I’ve been meaning to pick one of those up myself, so I can take a sharpie and cross the ‘Neu’ out and marker in ‘old’ for my automotive ‘fashion’ statement.

March 21, 2007 at 11:34 pm
(776) Todd W says:

Dead, that hair and make up comment was classic! Wltrip is the perfect poster boy for Toyota. You should be proud Matthew!

March 22, 2007 at 12:01 am
(777) dead head says:

fart pipes! that is funny todd. best one yet. nothing beats the sound of a supercharger belt whining. then rolling up next to a honda and redling the engine, rocking all around. then the honda revs and it sounds like a chainsaw. aw man, you cant describe that feeling when the light turns green and you dump the clutch. of course at the strip where you can rub your time and speed in that guys face afterword.we dont need to street race anymore, we proved we got what it takes. oldskool or no school.

March 22, 2007 at 1:08 am
(778) dead head says:

oh yeah, that nastalgic rake just makes a car. even if its paint is crap. i love smokin the tires at a light and down the road. especialy when theres 100 foot long foot prints. then you go by them and someone in the car says look at them skid marks. and you go ya, there mine. when i got my first car i spun the tires right of the rim. but now a days you get caught doing that you get a 300 dollar ticket for unsafe start. them tuners ruined it for all us and gave us a bad name. the good old days ya know.

March 22, 2007 at 2:08 am
(779) Todd W says:

I have to admit, it’s been fun participating in this sprawling full length discussion (and good clean fun at that)

…and kudo’s to Steve for making it all possible to start with.

Way to go Steve-O!

I can’t think of a better way to educate the masses here, especially when it comes to this particular topic. This is a bona fide form of therapy Steve! Iv’e been meaning to get these things off my chest for awhile….And don’t count me out at this late stage of it, I’m gonna stick around and keep this puppy rolling right along until eyeball’s start popping out. That’s the least I can do in return for it all.

March 22, 2007 at 8:21 am
(780) Hummer Dude says:

Mr. Todd W

Yes sir, my link is to AM General.
We here understand that the general public is unaware of our HMMWV production. It is very common for the masses to think “Oh, HUMMER, yes that’s a GM product.” That is true. However, when the same general public says “Oh, HMMWV, yes, that’s a GM product.” That is not the real deal. We take pride in our product, as well as the GM products.

By posting the link here sir, it would allow the general public that might frequent here to understand that AM General produces HMMWV for the military. And that GM produces HUMMER for the civilian casual market.

This is a very common misconception, so I was just in an attempt to clarify the difference between the two. AM General produces military hardware. GM produces civilian HUMMERs. We are not the same corporation.

Thank You

March 22, 2007 at 1:07 pm
(781) dead head says:

hummer dude, is AM General and GM related at all? i mean why does GM make a public version of the hmmwv, and AM General makes the hmmwv. it seems their would be some relation. but the point we really were going after is the fact their made in America. and AM General is American based company.

March 22, 2007 at 4:08 pm
(782) dead head says:

okay, i found it. i read that page over and saw how GM started making the hummers. now does that mean AM General is part of GM or the other way around. just like to know.

March 22, 2007 at 7:56 pm
(783) Hummer Dude says:

Friend dead head,

Our history can be traced back to 1903, Terre Haute, Indiana. I have taken the liberty to enclose our history page to the bottom of this posting. This is for you, and for others that might frequent here to read at your leisure. Always an item of particular interest is the creation of our own engine team, General Engine Products LLC, (GEP). This affiliate is where we build our own engines for the HMMWV with additional outsource contracts.

Once you have read through our exciting history the answer to your question will become clear. Thou we and GM share R&D, facilities, and other items of interest, we are not the same company. GM has purchased the copyright or the word “HUMMER” and they produce what you find on the street. Interestingly some of their exclusive vehicles pass through stations within our facility. However, their fine products are finalized and “DOT” approved in their own close by facility. As most of the general populace is aware of GM and their affiliates, we here at AM General are not connected at the corporate level. We are AM General LLC, and are owned by a conglomerate known as; “MacAndrews & Forbes Holdings and the Renco Group.”

I hope this has helped to clarify your question, and that of others that might frequent here as well. Please feel free to search around our site, though we have some restrictions imposed onto us, we try to share as much to the public as allowed. Also feel free to click through the photo gallery where not only HMMWVs can be found, but other vehicles of military interest that we either build, or collaborate with.

Thank You

March 22, 2007 at 7:59 pm
(784) Hummer Dude says:

It would appear that I forgot to emplace the link into the last posting.

Here it is:

My Apologies

March 22, 2007 at 11:22 pm
(785) dead head says:

hey dude, can you hook me up with one of them things? anyway, while your here, tell us were you stand with toyota being in nascar. input from someone from an American company might help people see why buying forgien cars and ditching the big three affects us all. thats the last thing we need, our military selling out to buy forgien vehicles for the front line. im sure you wouldnt like to lose your job to japan. if you dont mind, tell us what kind of car you drive as well. just because it could help us.

March 23, 2007 at 9:02 am
(786) Todd W says:

Great point L34

To the ‘Hummerdude’ really quick.

Actually the ‘AM’ stands for American Motors (who went bankrupt in the early eighties)

None the less, I find it sort of ironic that the company ‘CEO’ isn’t aware that every one of those ‘Humvee’s he’s manufacturing has both a GM engine, and transmission installed in it.

Here’s a description of another AM contracted vehicle — (Along with the HMMWV, AM General also produces the LSSV (Light Service Support Vehicle). The LSSV is a GM-built Silverado 2500 HD and is powered by a Duramax® 6.6 liter turbo diesel engine. The LSSV is available in a crew cab or standard cab.

WOW! Sounds like AM General is not only using the engines, but full existing platforms of GM vehicles as well! Just so you are aware ‘Hummerdude’ — AM General builds civilian Hummers for GM as well!….And guess who’s engines and parts end up on the assembly line at AM General? AM General is a sub division of GM, just like Pontiac or Buick. Only geared for military vs civilian vehicles obviously.

March 23, 2007 at 10:52 am
(787) Hummer Dude says:

Mr. Todd W,

Sir I am not here to argue with anybody about anything. I am a Public Relations specialist.

We supplied the links for the general populace here to read at their leisure.

If for some reason sir, you missed the link to our history page, I will add it to this post. Additionally sir, you will find on our history page where in 1999, we built our own engine facility, called the GEP where the engines are built for our vehicles, and have outsourced contracts. Also sir, on our history page, as you mentioned, you will find that we have had many different owners throughout the years, and currently we are AM General LLC. We and GM are not connected at the corporate level. We are two separate corporations that have similar visions, and similar products.

Yes sir, as mentioned in an earlier post, some of GM vehicles do go through our facility. But those are GM vehicles and not AM General vehicles.


Thank You

March 23, 2007 at 4:10 pm
(788) Todd W says:

Here’s the spec sheet on every ‘Humvee’ variant that rolls into combat –


Notice when you scroll down to engine it says — manufactured by GM.

Now since you’re such an expert, why doesn’t it say AM General instead? Especially when supposedly your building you’re own engines in house?

..And since you deal with such a wide range of manufacturers, tell me one vehicle you produce that instead of sitting on a Silvarado chassis — sits on an F-150, or Ram chassis.

March 23, 2007 at 7:46 pm
(789) Dennis T says:


All I ask for is just a moment of your hard pressed time.

I am Dennis T. and I am the PR supervisor in which “Hummer Dude” is one of my reps at the AM General PR team. Hummer Dude has informed me of this site, and is concerned that there might be a bit of course communications here. I have picked up from his non-invasive entry, and have read up to this point. Quite frankly, I do not have the time to read this entire 800 plus post board. I do see where he acknowledged a poster here, and then continued a posting session. I also see where he made contact with another poster, and added some history and informational web links.

Our IT department has implemented software that searches the (WWW) for forums and postings in which the general public may have an interest in our products. The software put a hit on this site from some keywords that were used here. This site was passed to my team, and then onto Hummer Dude. It is our policy to create a non-invasive entry, do a professional greeting, and without abrasion talk about our products, and post links. We are not to engage into personal postings, and never are we to get personal, or add personal thoughts to a discussion. It is clear to me that Hummer Dude has followed our established rules. My PR representatives are allowed to choose their handle to add a personal touch to their postings. Some of my reps are, Hummer Dude, The Hummer Man, Katie’s got a Hummer, along with several others. Hummer Dude is in fact a part of the “Dude” society, young, energetic, and not yet dry behind the ears. However, as many can tell from here, he has done good.

From here I will take over, and allow Hummer Dude some well deserved time off.

The above link is a bit dated. If we research that link we will find at the bottom it was last updated in 2005. A lot has transpired since that time.
AM General has built and shipped new vehicles to our military, and has added other features and product enhancements since then.


Additionally, while reviewing that dated site, we do in fact understand the verbiage of the GM engine. However, we currently produce our own Optimizer 6500 series of engines. Thess are also available for marine, and replacement installations.

AM General LLC, to this day remains an independent company. We are currently involved with several government and military contracts, both homeland and abroad. From the next venture is where public relations come into play. AM General LLC, sold the rights to the Hummer name to General Motors in 1999, however, we continue to build the vehicles for GM. From that point in history onward, we have created a vast amount of confusion. GM has the rights to Hummer. AM General LLC, has never given up the rights to HMMWV, and continues to build them for a vast array of contractual bids. Our most important build is for our own DOD. These are the vehicles that serve our troops who serve us both here and in harms way. We attempt to spread the word through non-abrasive user groups, forums, and comment pages just like this one.

Hopefully I have spread a little information, lightened a load, and allowed the select elite who frequent here a page or two of informational data.

Thank You
Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 7:48 pm
(790) Dennis T. says:


All I ask for is just a moment of your hard pressed time.

I am Dennis T. and I am the PR supervisor in which “Hummer Dude” is one of my reps at the AM General PR team. Hummer Dude has informed me of this site, and is concerned that there might be a bit of course communications here. I have picked up from his non-invasive entry, and have read up to this point. Quite frankly, I do not have the time to read this entire 800 plus post board. I do see where he acknowledged a poster here, and then continued a posting session. I also see where he made contact with another poster, and added some history and informational web links.

Our IT department has implemented software that searches the (WWW) for forums and postings in which the general public may have an interest in our products. The software put a hit on this site from some keywords that were used here. This site was passed to my team, and then onto Hummer Dude. It is our policy to creat a non-invasice entry, do a professional greeting, and without abrasion talk about our products, and post links. We are not to engage into personal postings, and never are we to get personal, or add personal thoughts to a discussion. It is clear to me that Hummer Dude has follwed our established rules. My PR representives are allowed to choose their handle to add a personal touch to their postings. Some of my reps are, Hummer Dude, The Hummer Man, Katies got a Hummer, along with several others. Hummer Dude is in fact a part of the “Dude” society, young, energetic, and not yet dry behind the ears. However, as many can tell from here, he has done good.

From here I will take over, and allow Hummer Dude some well deserved time off.

The above link is a bit dated. If we research that link we will find at the bottom it was last updated in 2005. A lot has transpired since that time.
AM General has built and shipped new vehicles to our military, and has added other features and product enhancements since then.


Additionally, while reviewing that dated site, we do in fact understand the verbiage of the GM engine. However, we currently produce our own engines which are based from the tried and proven GM design.

AM General LLC, to this day remains an independent company. We are currently involved with several government and military contracts, both homeland and abroad. From the next venture is where public relations come into play. AM General LLC, sold the rights to the Hummer name to General Motors in 1999, however, we continues to build the vehicles for GM. From that point in history onward, we have created a vast amount of confusion. GM has the rights to Hummer. AM General LLC, has never given up the rights to HMMWV, and continues to build them for a vast array of contractal bids. Our most important build is for our own DOD. This are the vehicles that serve our trrops who serve us both here and in harms way. We attempt to spread the word through non-abrasive user groups, forums, and comment pages just like this one.

Hopefully I have spread a little information, lightened a load, and allowed the select elite who frequent here a page or two of informational data.

Thank You
Dennis T.
PR Supervisor

March 23, 2007 at 7:56 pm
(791) Dennis T. says:


All I ask for is just a moment of your hard pressed time.

I am Dennis T. and I am the PR supervisor in which “Hummer Dude” is one of my reps at the AM General PR team. Hummer Dude has informed me of this site, and is concerned that there might be a bit of course communications here. I have picked up from his non-invasive entry, and have read up to this point. Quite frankly, I do not have the time to read this entire 800 plus post board. I do see where he acknowledged a poster here, and then continued a posting session. I also see where he made contact with another poster, and added some history and informational web links.

Our IT department has implemented software that searches the (WWW) for forums and postings in which the general public may have an interest in our products. The software put a hit on this site from some keywords that were used here. This site was passed to my team, and then onto Hummer Dude. It is our policy to creat a non-invasice entry, do a professional greeting, and without abrasion talk about our products, and post links. We are not to engage into personal postings, and never are we to get personal, or add personal thoughts to a discussion. It is clear to me that Hummer Dude has follwed our established rules. My PR representives are allowed to choose their handle to add a personal touch to their postings. Some of my reps are, Hummer Dude, The Hummer Man, Katies got a Hummer, along with several others. Hummer Dude is in fact a part of the “Dude” society, young, energetic, and not yet dry behind the ears. However, as many can tell from here, he has done good.


March 23, 2007 at 8:37 pm
(792) Dennis T. says:

From here I will take over, and allow Hummer Dude some well deserved time off.

The above link is a bit dated. If we research that link we will find at the bottom it was last updated in 2005. A lot has transpired since that time.
AM General has built and shipped new vehicles to our military, and has added other features and product enhancements since then.


Additionally, while reviewing that dated site, we do in fact understand the verbiage of the GM engine. However, we currently produce our own engines which are based from the tried and proven GM design.


March 23, 2007 at 8:45 pm
(793) Dennis T. says:

AM General LLC, to this day remains an independent company. We are currently involved with several government and military contracts, both homeland and abroad. From the next venture is where public relations come into play. AM General LLC, sold the rights to the Hummer name to General Motors in 1999, however, we continues to build the vehicles for GM. From that point in history onward, we have created a vast amount of confusion. GM has the rights to Hummer. AM General LLC, has never given up the rights to HMMWV, and continues to build them for a vast array of contractal bids. Our most important build is for our own DOD. This are the vehicles that serve our trrops who serve us both here and in harms way. We attempt to spread the word through non-abrasive user groups, forums, and comment pages just like this one.

Hopefully I have spread a little information, lightened a load, and allowed the select elite who frequent here a page or two of informational data.

Thank You
Dennis T.
PR Supervisor

March 23, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(794) Todd W says:

Well you don’t have too put that much effort into avoiding such a simple question ‘Sir’

Oh and I’m sure AM general has software that scans the entire internet, triggered instantly as soon as some Joe in a blog keys the word ‘Humvee’

So since Hummerdude has to make up an alternate identity in a blog, just to inform the average reader that he can’t participate anymore once he is stuck with a question he can’t answer — We’ll we all get the picture Hummerdude..or ..’Atheist’.

March 23, 2007 at 9:03 pm
(795) Dennis T says:

I have lost the entire middle of my post.

It contained new and updated links in it.

I am unaware of any other identity that is being spoke of.

We here can answer most any and all PR questions, as long as it is for public release.

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 9:18 pm
(796) Dennis T. says:
March 23, 2007 at 9:27 pm
(797) Dennis T. says:

From here I will take over, and allow Hummer Dude some well deserved time off.

The above link is a bit dated. If we research that link we will find at the bottom it was last updated in 2005. A lot has transpired since that time.
AM General has built and shipped new vehicles to our military, and has added other features and product enhancements since then.

Additionally, while reviewing that dated site, we do in fact understand the verbiage of the GM engine. However, we currently produce our own engines which are based from the tried and proven GM design.

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 9:28 pm
(798) Todd W says:

Well Dennis not that as if we need you to answer any questions (we are all surfing on the web of information here after all) — So I think it’s only obvious that AM General sub contracts strictly from GM. Can’t argue with those engines sitting in all of the Humvees now can we Dennis?

..And since as you claim AM General is entirely independent of the ‘General’ of Detroit — why don’t we see any Ford, or Chrysler parts finding their ways into your assembly plants? After all. you claim your company is a free and independent contractor; so why no other contracts separate from GM Dennis?

None from Ford, Diamler, or Toyota even! Explain that one to us using your ‘PR’ abilities please. You know what I think the obvious answer to that is Dennis? Why considering that AM’s vehicles are teeming with GM parts — AM is strictly a contractor for General Motors. The two are quite ‘intertwined’ you would have to admit when we get right down to the nuts and bolts of it huh Denny?

Gee, I wonder who holds stock in AM General? Couldn’t be the exact sames stocks as GM now could it?

March 23, 2007 at 9:40 pm
(799) Dennis T. says:

Is there a time, line limit, or a link limite here?

I am in an attempt to answer questions, and post links, however, they are not going through.

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 9:51 pm
(800) Todd W says:

No wlets not assume we are all complete idiots here Dennis — obviously the post you just made went through didn’t it!

March 23, 2007 at 9:54 pm
(801) Dennis T. says:

Yes, that is correct.
However, my other post did not go through, with the new and updated links embedded in it.

Any ideas?

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 9:56 pm
(802) Dennis T. says:

General Engine Products LLC
A Subsidiary of AM General LLC

General Engine Products (GEP) produces the Optimizer 6500 V8 diesel engine at its 92,000-sq. ft. Franklin, Ohio, assembly plant. This engine can be found in new HMMWVs, HUMMER® H1s, as a service replacement engine for numerous vehicles and in marine applications.

The new, modern engine facility went into operation in July 2000. The 6.5 liter engine had been built for many years by General Motors at their Moraine Engine Plant. With GM’s technical support, AM General developed the new facility and made numerous improvements to this already reliable power plant.

Besides supplying the engine to AM General as the basic power plant for the military HMMWV and the civilian HUMMER H1, GEP sells the engine to the General Motors Service Parts Organization as a service replacement engine. GEP also supplies the engine to the military as a service engine for existing HMMWVs. Recently the Optimizer 6500 has been used in marine applications.

With numerous diesel engine requirements throughout the world, GEP is well positioned for sales into many markets. The plant is capable of rapid expansion to handle expected growth in sales.

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 10:08 pm
(803) Dennis T. says:

This is not exactly what I had intended. However, as we all know things happen on the internet.

The biggest setback is the fact my post was piece-mealed out, and never really put back together. In addition the links were not able to be placed into the correct location.

The updated global security website is where you will receive most of the answers that you have. Again, I as well as my reps are PR department, we are not technicians, or corporate executives. We are just along for the ride, and a wonderful and exciting ride it is.

Also, our new engine plant, does in effect in a way, place us more into our own, as opposed to what we had done in the past. This gives us more nuts&bolts of our own.

However, we own the facility, the only facility none the less, and we have our own contracts. This is another way, and reason we are not connected to GM.

However, in the world of stock options, and money, I have no access.

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 10:48 pm
(804) The Aetheist says:

Todd Windbag Dude!

Did you squeal? :)

My, my, look at your obtuse self now! Engaged in a another battle of the wits? You squealing for help from all of your friends? I have no idea what you have gotten yourself into, but by the looks of it, those postings and links sure have you looking the lacky again.

How’s Southern Girl, dead head, Chevy Man, lizardking, NE Man, MattC, and L34 Chevelle? Are you all in the same location still?

How’d that last burnout go? I bet your California plated civic fits right in.

And don’t forget,
American made by American workers for the American consumer. toyota does not even need to be associated with NASCAR. I hear you might have a good deal lined up when honda enters thou. They are going to use your civic as the poster placard!

March 23, 2007 at 11:09 pm
(805) Dennis T. says:
March 23, 2007 at 11:10 pm
(806) Dennis T. says:

Our GEP page:

Dennis T.

March 23, 2007 at 11:25 pm
(807) Dennis T. says:

I must leave then. I cannot hold my employees to a work ethic and not obey it myself. There is too much at risk here, and we do not want to be involved within this posting page. Sometimes it is not always what the poster says, or how they say it, that could lead to offensive communications. I understnad that this is Friday night, and I volunteered for the overnighter. Maybe my eyes are tired and therefore what I think i’am reading is not really what it is.

Dennis T.

March 24, 2007 at 12:31 am
(808) Southern Girl says:

Hey everybody,

woah new people. i still support toyota in the race and people who have facts in this discussion.

Lots of posts to read up on.. man. crazyness…

March 24, 2007 at 12:54 am
(809) MattC says:

Hello everybody! I’m back…actually I’ve been here-sitting out the last few sessions to watch Todd Windbag-(thats a great name) engage people in conversations, and I must say, he hasnt changed a bit. Todd, here comes a guy- a represenative… Maybe even from the corporate level-to enlighten you on AM General’s ties to GM. And guess what? There are none! He provided you with links, and a lot of information that could answer all questions, but you still manage to argue and make a fool out of yourself. You thought GM and AM General were the same company. I guess you have sadly mistaken.

And when he broke the bad news to you, you took it like a little baby. You talk to him like an 8 year old, but why should I be suprised…you talk to everybody here like an 8 year old especially me. The part I find most interesting is the fact that this guy represents a very important company, one that supports our military in a very big way, and you manage to argue with him. The last time you talked to me, you’d be willing to take a bullet for companies like AM General.

So shame on you for talking to Dennis T like that! Thats no way to treat a man you’d take a bullet for. I think you’re sad that AM General-who makes the REAL military Humvee, has nothing to do with the fancied up Chevy Tahoe which is called the H2. What makes you even more sad, is that this great company that makes vehicles that supports our troops in warzones, has nothing to do with GM or nascar.

So, once again, you’re stuck in the mud.

March 24, 2007 at 12:58 am
(810) MattC says:

I also want to say that I’m not just here to argue with Todd Windbag (although it is fun). I’m here to show my support for Toyota and I dont even drive a Toyota! According to nascar.com, toyota entered the Craftsman truck series only 3 years ago, and now they describe toyota as “dominating the sport”. Now remember-that came from http://www.nascar.com

March 24, 2007 at 9:17 am
(811) l doyno says:

remember the alamo,remember pearl harbor. a snake may shed it,s skin, but a snake is still a snake.

March 24, 2007 at 11:12 am
(812) The Aetheist says:

Wow! I just looked at the updated link from Dennis T, it would appear he provided you with the most current information. Then we all know what happened next! You could not handle it.

Amazing what can be learned if one were to just try!

“AM General L.L.C., South Bend, Ind., was awarded on March 1, 2005, a $59,963,442 modification to a firm fixed price contract for 814 M1152 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles and 31 M1151 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles. Work would be performed at South Bend, Ind., and was expected to be completed by March 31, 2006. This was a sole source contract initiated on July 17, 2000. The U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command, Warren, Mich., is the contracting activity (DAAE07-01-C-S001)”.


Dude, this way deeper than I ever imagined!

Just say NO to toyota!

March 24, 2007 at 2:14 pm
(813) NE Man says:

Ok, i was told to look at this site again, because it was getting rediculous. Obviously Todd has nothing to say. 889: he accuses everyone of being the same person. However, he is just dumb, and has absolutely no arguements left, so he continues his juvenile attacks on character to destroy credibility. That is an uneducated mans way of trying to destroy credibility. So i agree, you must be 8. And Toyota should be in NASCAR, even if they were stupid for their first race.

March 24, 2007 at 5:36 pm
(814) NE Man says:

What year is your car? The cars from the last 15 years, except SOME of the most recent models, werent better than Toyota. Do you only modify older cars? Do you only modify classics? If that is the case then stop bringing up your car. Youre trying to compare cars from way back when to cars of today, not to mention your car is upgraded. My point is, you use the same tired excuses to justify your prejudices, when in reality youre trying to justify why you arent buying newer foreign cars yourself. That being said, it is embarrising to you to keep up your long winded speeches, when all you do is bash other people, call us all the same person, when in reality we are not, and you use the same points over and over and over and over again. It isnt even a valid point so get over yourself and find a mind of your own.

March 24, 2007 at 7:00 pm
(815) Todd W says:

Few scans of my car from when I got new paint a bit ago (add http: to the beginning of each)–



That’s not my daily drive around car. I bought that car when I was 18 years old, and more than anything I wouldn’t get rid of it due to sentimental value. I just commute around in a banged up S10, that I leave to get dinged by the shopping carts, and thrashed around in rainy weather — regardless, they are still both American.

Actually I have been contemplating buying something else for awhile now (I just sold a short wheel base truck — American obviously, 77 Chevrolet with a mild small block) Problem is I really don’t know what I want to blow my cash on. Whatever it is; it won’t be a foreign make I can assure you that. The only new car that I would even consider, is that 2008 Dodge Challenger coming out. Even though I really haven’t owned any performance oriented MoPar’s in my life; that new Challenger just looks right in every area to me.

March 24, 2007 at 7:13 pm
(816) Todd W says:

Plus I don’t really understand what you mean by ‘better than’

Do you mean more fuel efficient? Along with really tame six cylinder engines and drive trains?

Honestly better to me equals out to style and performance, especially if we are talking about forking over cash for a new car.

…And domestics right now hold that title. 500 bhp is the norm these days when we get to talking American performance. Mustang, the upcoming Camaro will be in around there with the SS or Z28 offering, not to mention the latest Dodge Viper is a 600 bhp sports (I mean muscle) car from the factory with a warranty! Toyota doesn’t even compare to that stuff.

Heck, Dodge already offers a truck that can out accelerate Toyotas high end performance offerings. If fuel economy, and tame long lasting, drab sedans is your idea of better….Well that’s your own take on it all.

March 24, 2007 at 8:00 pm
(817) RW NETT says:

nascar acronym for what spell it out in long text then ask the question.

March 24, 2007 at 8:01 pm
(818) Todd W says:

Just as an after thought…each of your arguments here have nothing to do with the topic itself. You are all preoccupied with me for whatever reason. Lets get back to Toyota in NASCAR..

…And since a lot of you feel Toyota should be in this original, and traditional American form of motorsport (can’t deny that) — why can’t you Toyota fans point to one single part on those Camry race cars and say ‘Hey, that’s Toyota…Or, Toyota has roots in designing that particular part’

Why can’t you do that? What is really stopping Toyota from injecting a bot if its own identity into it’s race car? Why use the Ford rear end? Surely Toyota has a similar design tucked away in some blue prints from it’s early years. Probably not, but just a thought.

Why not use a carb designed from it’s own era of carbed engines? One of it’s own designs modified to flow equal cfm, etc?

What about introducing it’s own transmission design? You would think Toyota would want some of it’s own enhanced decades old designs fitted to it’s race car….And if NASCAR wouldn’t allow it — then I would think Toyota would have replied ‘We have pride in our designs (past and present), if you expect us to just copy American design and fix our image to it you thought wrong’

But Toyota didn’t do that, they gladly copied our designs, plus fitted in our American parts just so they could compete in an original form of American motorsport where they really don’t fit into design wise. How can you really respect such a move?

This would have to be the first car manufacturer in history to outright copy another manufacturers design (let alone use their parts) just in order to share the spotlight with them in a popular domesticated motorsport. What happened to that Japanese sense of honor anyway?

March 24, 2007 at 8:03 pm
(819) NE Man says:

Im not talking trucks, because i agree domestic trucks are better. Im talking fuel efficiency, especially since most people dont need the “power” from a big engine. Just an A-B car. I dont need anything that gets from 0-60 in less than 8 seconds. I need a car thats really fuel efficient. That is why so many people are buying foreign.

March 24, 2007 at 8:23 pm
(820) Todd W says:

Well in that case, go out and find yourself a slant six dodge if you want reliability and fuel economy. Those motors literally run forever, and talk about cheap and hands on.

Who wants to spend 20 thousand dollars on a commuter car? Obviously somebody who doesn’t know any better. Those are throw away cars, as soon as you leave the lot the value plumits foreign or domestic.

You really think a throw away commuter car like the Ford Aspire, or the GM equivalant isn’t as durable as a Toyota throw away?

This is 2007, any manufacturer can produce a reliable 4 cylinder foreign or domestic, plus give you your insane high mile warranty, lets face it.

March 24, 2007 at 9:24 pm
(821) MattC says:

Dear Mr. Todd Windblower,

Due to your recent comments on nascar.about.com, I must admit that your ultimate purpose in life is to have the last word. Thats it. It doesent have to be backed up by facts, because you have none. You’ve been proving that to us for a long time now. You dont care what it is that you think, say, or type, just as long as it’s the last word.

With that said, this entire message board is a pointless waste of time, because you refuse to admit that toyota is a lot more than just an underestimated japanese brand that makes junk.

Japan has a lot to do with america today. Without Japan, you wouldnt be able to play GTA on your PS2. I guess you could play mario on your nintendo (since that is more suited for 8 year olds). Without Japan, there would be no engine designs to copy from to make fuel efficient cars-I’m talking about V-TEC. About 10 or 12 years after Honda came out with V-TEC, Ford comes out with ‘Z-TEC’…which is basically the same thing.

The only thing you can do is go back to the golden years of big bore and big stroke engines with lots of torque, lots of noise, and a lot of horsepower. And I know a lot of guys like that. But the difference between you and them is that they aknowledge the progress of the Japanese brands, and you dont. Just like everyone else says: You’re in denial of the success of Toyota. They’re going to surpass GM this year for God’s sake! They’re good in every motorsport they compete in. And that scares you. Just look at what they did in the Craftsman truck series. 3 years from now, we should all come back to this message board and talk about who’s the best.

March 24, 2007 at 10:29 pm
(822) Todd W says:

Everything I mention in post 900 is fact Matt. Why can’t you answer any of that? As far as the ‘glory days’ of big bore V8 — it hasn’t gone anywhere Matt. It’s alive and well in MY country. The muscle car is still the foundation of detroit when it comes to automotive pride. Look what’s in the showrooms!!

As far as Toyota dominating craftsman truck, oh yeah — with American copied parts. Those Tundra decal bodies don’t win races in NASCAR — American engineered performance parts sitting beneath them do.

Now to your most ignorant comment yet here –

Matt writes — Japan has a lot to do with America today. Without japan you wouldn’t be able to play GTA on your PS2.

Well guess what Matt? I don’t have a PS2. Instead of video games, I spend my time on a lot more ‘adult oriented’ activities. Like driving around in a real Chevelle, on real paved roads. Imagine that!

..And as far as ‘without Japan’….Are you really that naive Matt? How old are you anyway? Without the United States Japan would be nothing!! We practically rebuilt their country for them after we annihilated it back in the mid forties for Christ Sake! Remember your history books Matt?

When the ‘superior’ Japanese soldier, naval fleet, air force, and so forth surprised attacked us in the Pacific? Who ended up superior Matt? Even when we had to fight in two different campaigns in different regions of the globe simultaneously on top of it all.

From one American to another, why don’t you renounce your citizenship and relocate to Tokyo Matt? Attempting to read into your viewpoints on here, it’s obvious you are sub American at the very least.

…Even the Japanese prime minister has more respect for American culture than you yourself do. He’s an Elvis fanatic, and on his last stop off over here do you think he visited a Toyota plant? Hell no!! His first stop off was at Graceland so he could pay homage to his favorite American idol — Elvis Presley.

ha ha ha ha!!!!

March 24, 2007 at 10:35 pm
(823) The Aetheist says:

Cool pics!

Looks like you were doing the low crawl to take them. Somebody else’s dog watching it?

Somebody your age with PC skills can have a picture copy, pasted, photo-shopped, and reposted in less than 30 minutes.

Don’t even try it, post your civic pics, with details to your muffler!

That’s a good one Matt, “windblower”.

March 24, 2007 at 10:52 pm
(824) Todd W says:

Well ‘Aethiest’

Do I really have to post the picture of me standing by the car when I yanked out the original big block in 1998?

I am of the shy type after all you know.

…And it’s not like I had to go and link a motor from wikipedia and claim it was in my car out in my barn now did I? Oh lets not forget, screw up even the car that it’s sitting in on top of it.

Wasn’t it a thunderbird Aethiest? But you claimed it was a what again? Oh yeah — a Mustang. ha ha ha

…and since your so pro America here Aethiest, I wonder why Matt’s ignorance doesn’t offend you in the slightest? Couldn’t be that you are Matt also could it?

Your real views are blogged under ‘Matt’ because you drive the Civic — and when Matt gets stuck answering something, it’s Aetihest for the much needed distraction. Way to go!

March 24, 2007 at 11:19 pm
(825) The Aetheist says:

No. I would not expect you to post anything personal on the internet.

I mentioned engine. Then I mentioned Mustang. Never did I mention T-bird. I said 427 SOHC, with the plugs through the valve cover. YOU were the one that got all spastastic about it being a rare 429 whatever. I never said anything about it being original know did I?

Do I really have to post a picture of me holding a sign ‘look here todd windbag’ of me standing next to the wrecked beyond salvaged T-bird, then a few of the stang with that motor going into it? That will take some time ya know. That project is far from complete.

I am of the shy type on the internet after all ya know.

Back the truck up! You are more than just todd windbag there Dude. You double posted once and got it thrown at you under a different guise. And besides, I already named you. You can’t just go and change it now.

todd windbag = AKA: dead head, MattC, NE Man, Southern Girl, L34Chevelle, Chevy Man, and lizardking! And your just as obtuse as MattC as you are as todd windbag!

March 24, 2007 at 11:20 pm
(826) Todd W says:

just couldn’t resist (I laid the sheet of paper over myself leaning on the fender because, I don’t want my picture associated with this blog) Who would? Steve of course, but he hasn’t been very opinionated.

Don’t forget the ‘http:’ before the link now –


Do I need any more proof? Note how high the front ends on those cars sit after one of those big block’s is yanked. I think this is sufficient proof to back what I say.

March 24, 2007 at 11:23 pm
(827) Todd W says:

I just couldn’t resist (I laid the sheet of paper over myself leaning on the fender because, I don’t want my picture associated with this blog) Who would? Steve of course, but he hasn’t been very opinionated.

Don’t forget the ‘http:’ before the link


Do I need any more proof? Note how high the front ends on those cars after one of those big block’s is yanked. I think this is sufficient proof to back what I say.

See that photo? Way back from 1998 when you and Matt where in diapers.

March 24, 2007 at 11:25 pm
(828) The Aetheist says:

Cool Pic.

Riddle me this, why did you pull the BB out?

March 24, 2007 at 11:27 pm
(829) Todd W says:

whoops, posted twice

But I’m sure you get the picture : )

March 24, 2007 at 11:30 pm
(830) Todd W says:

Because it’s a numbers matching SS car with the 325 orse 396. I wasn’t going to risk hand grenading that engine, or doing something stupid to it.

Plus the 327 makes about 360 hp. The big block is under plastic still.

March 24, 2007 at 11:31 pm
(831) The Aetheist says:
March 24, 2007 at 11:34 pm
(832) The Aetheist says:

I have heard stories of what you say. Is the 396 really that volatile?

March 24, 2007 at 11:36 pm
(833) Todd W says:

What kind of nonsense is that Matt?

You haven’t shown us anything, let alone your picture. My g/f snapped that picture on top of it all. After me and a bud yanked that motor in one afternoon. I guess she thought it would be a neat little memento of sorts.

Lets see your picture next to your PS2 instead Matt — LMAO!!

I might be breaking away here for a bit, after all it is Saturday night Matt!!!

March 25, 2007 at 11:00 am
(834) The Aetheist says:

Back the truck up here!

We had three postings running at the same time. Is that the West Coast time lag, you can get two posts in, one as Todd Windbag, and the other as MattC, to my one post?

I am The Aetheist AKA: Toyota Rocks. I hail from the hollers of Tennessee. I come from a dirt poor Southern background, and have pulled myself up into middle class society. I bought my family a small parcel of land, and a new double wide during my service obligation. I have a vile and heartfelt distaste and distrust for my current administration. Furthermore, I do not hesitate in displaying my personal feelings or my personal reasons. As it appears currently, either does the news, either source for that matter. I have Southern Democrat values, but dislike all of the current Dems, as they have grown into left field liberals. Thou I’m proud of Al Gore, that does not mean I support him. Now is the time that this country needs another Ronald Regan! I admit to the AKA, and to lowering myself to juvenile tactics to prove a point. But at times, one has to do as one sees fit in order to bring equilibrium to the table. I am a Organizational Communications Manager, and I work for a national, household common name company (US Corporate). cufishing is my old undergrad roommate that sent me the link to here. He has not returned here since the KY Proud guy got too close to home. Thou he has seen Todd Ws post, he did as I could not, and took the high morale road.

It is at this juncture that I shall throw my final shout out and depart.

It was 14 May 2006 when one of my classmates gave it all for his country. The IED ripped completely through the bottom of his HMMWV, tossing it like a paper-mache toy into the air and onto it’s back. Left in the smoldering crater was two KIAs (driver and commander), one permanently paralyzed (port gunner), and two walking wounded (starboard gunner and hatch gunner). The AM General labeled tailgate was blown over three hundred meters away, ingraining into eternity: The people of America were lied to, and the people of Iraq do NOT want us there! Along with;

Clinton liked hummers
Bush destroys hummers
Impeach Bush

I informed a friend who knows some people, who sent some people. However, somebody here is too obtuse to realize what is and what once was, may not be the same. I encourage you to visit Dennis’ posted links, they will inform you of what they (AM General) are doing in an attempt to keep our troops safer, and in the fight longer.
I will not put forth any further political views, but understand this: I support in many ways unbeknownst to you folks here, all of my brothers and sisters that are in uniform today. They are the ones that allow us to sit behind our keyboards with nothing better to do than act as grade children deliberating over a slice of cake.

toyota as a manufacturer has no grass roots in America. They have accomplished a lot throughout their short history, however, they never were, and never will be an American automobile manufacturer.

Just say NO to toyota.

Semper Fidelis!

March 25, 2007 at 11:52 am
(835) The Aetheist says:

Todd W:
The barn is real. It belongs to my uncle. He is for the lack of a better term, a “salvage shyster”. He runs his own deals on wheels all over the SE. If he can’t talk you out of the shirt off your back, he will surely trade you an item of lesser value to him, that seems to be a greater item to you for it.

He specializes in junk, and turns it into non-original junk. Or rather, one mans junk becomes another mans gold mine. He has salvaged automobiles from as far back as the 40′s, and none newer than the early 70′s, or tada; pre-emission era.

The semi-hemi stang is his project for my nephew designed for street/strip.

The original GT 390 Mustang has won many awards and trophies, but he seems to be too busy to show since 2003. He actually got this car for the cost of title transfer, and license fees, and several years of back taxes. After all was said and done, he had the bank send him that check back after it was processed. He has it framed, and on the wall in his shop. Pay to: Clark County Tax Man- $476.00. Remarks, 1967 GT 390 Mustang from the original owner’s widow (“shyster” I tell ya!). It appears he has a another collector in pursuit of purchase, but that is not uncommon, however, he has yet to sell it?!

The bird is a dream of mine. He found that hulk somewhere in LA, and hauled it home. He estimates 6-7 years of slow, steady restoration. It will never be original as the fire destroyed too much, but it will be real. He has three 426 hemis in his possession, but alas, none of them are 1970, or will they ever match that car. That is a shame, but reality.

Remember, just say NO to toyota.

March 25, 2007 at 7:49 pm
(836) Todd W says:

Wonder when Toyota’s going to at least finish in the top twenty? I thought once a huge real spoiler was bolted onto any Toyota body, that equals out to instant warp speed!

March 25, 2007 at 7:53 pm
(837) Todd W says:

Wonder when Toyota’s going to at least finish in the top twenty? I thought once a huge rear spoiler was bolted onto any Toyota body, that equals out to instant warp speed!

March 26, 2007 at 1:02 pm
(838) NE Man says:

Yeah, todd, what was that? It had no point and no reference to anything. Way to stay on topic. Also, way to prove that you need the last word in everything. Good job.

March 26, 2007 at 8:18 pm
(839) keifer says:

what the hell is going on with this damn country,

March 26, 2007 at 10:06 pm
(840) Jim says:

What are you anti-Toyota guys afraid of??? Toyota can NEVER compete with the BIG BOYZ of NASCAR.

Let them get embarrassed every single year they try to compete!

Don’t be afraid of the competition my fellow AMERICANS!

March 26, 2007 at 10:13 pm
(841) MattC says:

That’s right. Nobody has a reason to be afraid of anything. Let them race and we’ll see what happens.

March 26, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(842) NE Man says:

Again, those who NEED power to feel like a man are pathetic. Those that live in the ‘glory days’ are useless dreamers. Todd, why are you so afraid of Toyota? AND where is your proof of the ripped off design from GM? I still have yet to see that. Oh you gave me a site that didnt have the information, yet i found some useful info against your argument. You have nothing but hot air. It is time you faced the music and gave up. You were done a week ago and yet here you are spouting out the same BS day in and day out.

March 27, 2007 at 11:36 am
(843) NASCAR Fan says:

Anybodt here comenting about Sundays race and the COT? The read over at http://www.nascar.com has it the drivers don’t like it because of different handling, and feeling differences. To me the race was a normal short track run, whoever had the fateset got their quickest.

March 28, 2007 at 4:09 am
(844) Todd W says:

What is it with those who once they make a post, they have to announce how they are ‘running away’ afterwards. Obviously they are afraid to stick around to defend their own comments (as in this case are full of contradictions)

Go carburetors? Ha ha, from a guy that supposedly repairs Harley’s. It’s not as if I have never seen a carb on a Harley….C’mon now! Besides, a race ready Dominator would equal out to the cost of those used Harley’s your wrenching on to begin with.

And as far as turning left, when you are running down a straight at close to 200 mph, you don’t simply turn left my friend. You use the throttle and brake to slide that car into a bank more than you would the steering angle.

And on a final note, did you miss bike week at Daytona? Check the Harley Davidson main page. A good majority of those on hand are the same crowd that attends speed weeks. Pretty ignorant for a supposed Harley builder, or whatever your claiming to be.

March 29, 2007 at 8:04 pm
(845) Fluffy T. Kat says:

My first NASCAR race was the Riverside 500, in 1964. Dan Gurney won. He drove a Ford Galaxie 500 ‘fastback’. In those days, these were cars from the production line, modified only with safety cages, race tires and brakes, and a few other rather minor changes. The Ford was available at your local dealer with the SAME 427 engine. The SAME 4-speed manual transmission. The SAME EXACT BODY. STOCK CARS.
One could tell a Ford from a Plymouth from a Dodge from a Mercury from a Pontiac from a Chevrolet in an instant.

What we have now are billboards with ‘personalities’ at the wheel. These cookie-cutter-one-size-fits-all cars are all exactly the same, and NONE of them, Toyota or any other, have ONE STOCK CAR PART ON THEM. NASCAR? phooey!

March 29, 2007 at 11:34 pm
(846) NE Man says:

Couldnt have said it better myself. Why should it matter what car enters anymore? NASCAR isnt stock car racing anymore. So why would you get all upity about it anyway? I dont see the big deal with them entering. Its still an American driver. And thats the only real difference, besides the decals.

March 30, 2007 at 4:53 am
(847) Todd W says:

Most of the decals are of American made parts as well, every contig sticker stuck to the thing. I don’t see why Toyota supporters are so for Toyota pretending to be NASCAR material, using American parts to pretend they somehow fit in. Embarrassing really.

What’s humorous is the Toyota commercial I seen aired last Sunday. It shows the No. 22 Camry, and at the end the big message is ‘Thanks for having us’

We wouldn’t be seeing such a plug if it weren’t for the boo’s heard by a lot of the fans as the Toyota’s qualify. If some moron had shown up at a local dirt track ten years ago, with American parts and a chevy engine (which the Toyota rip off is) — only with Toyota decals on his modified; He would have been dodging beer cans from the stands, and he would have been told to go home. It would have caused a riot, and you wouldn’t see that kind of disrespect for domestics at a local speedway. The sanctioning body would have said ‘if you want to run a Toyota, show up in a Toyota!…and good luck lol’

What Toyota is really saying with those commercial plugs is ‘Please accept our fake Toyota’

If it was turned over to the fans if Toyota could hang it’s name on a bunch of American copied, and borrowed parts; Toyota wouldn’t be racing it’s fake Camry Sunday. By the slim chance that a Toyota does win an event, watch the beer cans and junk being hurled out of the stands on the victory lap. Full cans of bud bouncing off the roof, and hood leaving the thing battered by the time it rolls into victory lane. That’s not an exaggeration either, look at when Gordon won Talladega last year — and that was in a Chevy!

As much as there is a large percentage of fans who hate Jeff Gordon; There’s quadruple that percentage that hates the fake Toyota’s. I’m sure NASCAR has had to triple it’s security measures since the rip off Toyot’as rolled in.

March 30, 2007 at 8:44 am
(848) toyota rules says:


March 30, 2007 at 1:11 pm
(849) NE Man says:

I hope your premonition comes true Todd. If Toyota wins and the beer cans fly, that will show the world what NASCAR fans are: a bunch of red-necked drunks who dont like that a new competitor has come forward to challenge their favorite drivers. Thats a bunch of bull. If the beer cans fly i hope they shut down NASCAR. That is disrespectful to everyone involved, Toyota or not.

March 30, 2007 at 6:23 pm
(850) Tom Russo says:

Heck, who cares about what jobs are going where? NASCAR lost its appeal years ago when the connection to the old moonshine runners was broken. Now it is a bunch off advetising billboards tuning left all afternoon with the company CEOs behind the wheel. They can’t even talk into a microphone with referring to the stupid “we” did this or “we” did that. The damn corporation is driving the car.

March 30, 2007 at 6:50 pm
(851) NASCAR Fan says:

So true….
Just last week when Kyle Busch had the microphone stuffed in his grill, he thanked Kellogg’s/Carquest before he started his tantrum about the COT!

March 30, 2007 at 9:28 pm
(852) Todd W says:

I agree, the ‘COT’ needs to go, right along with Toyota. The only reason Toyota’s names involved is due to corporate greed as well. They add about a foot to the front end of each car just so the engines will fit. They need to go back to common factory templates. Here’s how it should work –

Two door models only (No making a four door into a coupe)- The Monte Carlo fits as a current midsize, and the other two domestics should conform to those dimensions

V8 options in each of the production cars.

If you don’t produce a crate variant of the NASCAR engine, you aren’t eligible. Simple as that. Bye, bye Toyota — because they would look really stupid offering a crate V8 and it being obsolete to fit in any of their own vehicles now wouldn’t they?

So by popular opinion, Toyota out, and the ‘COT’ out — in that order. Get rid of the Toyota, and the ignorant looking wings will follow!

March 30, 2007 at 11:42 pm
(853) Fluffy the Kat says:

Hello again, folks.

I left a commentary as #928 on your board. Please read it first, just to give you a general understanding of ‘where I’m coming from’ regarding this post. Thanks.

NASCAR was at one time ‘stock’ car racing. The AUTOMOBILES competing were
as important as the people who drove them. (It was an AUTO race, after all..) The factory that made these cars and sponsored the teams were important, and the other ads on the cars only of minor import to the fan’s mind; mostly companies making things like shock absorbers (Regal Ride if memory serves…) and things like brake pads, oil treatments, etc. Things to do with CARS.

These were CAR BATTLES, not Home Depot v Lowe’s, or Viagra v Enzyte. These were the classic Ford v Chevrolet battles. The Mopars v everybody else.
Car Racing.

As stated above, these were the familiar
recognizable two-door coupes and hardtops (usually no B-pillar post). We had brands we were rooting for as much as any driver. This competition led to Detroit producing the amazing American Muscle Cars. So desirable and collectable now are these, that some are selling upwards of $100,000+, and in some cases,(absurdly I must say), have sold for $1,000,000+ as is the case when Barret-Jackson and some other big auction houses recently have done when they get one ‘up on the block’.

Look at cars such as the Mopars with the vaunted HEMI label. An example is the 1969 Dodge Daytona Charger which was a car you could go to your local dealer and buy with the HEMI 426, 4-speed manual and quite extreme aerodynamics; with relatively little modification from stock form, these would race every Sunday in this country. Bobby Issac set a new close-course record with one, averaging, for the first time in racing, AVERAGE lap speeds of OVER 200mph.

There was a ‘halo’ effect on that automobile company who’s cars won on Sunday. It brought traffic to the local Chevy/Ford/Mopar/Pontiac/etc. dealers. And though most folks bought more pedestrian models, which was good for the manufacturer, you COULD order up, for example, a Mercury Cyclone 429 just like the one David Pearson had just won a race with, and by golly, your car had the SAME engine, transmission, body, bumpers, etc. Or a Chevy Impala SS427. Or maybe a car like Richard Petty’s Blue Plymouth Furys or Road Runners. One could feel good driving a brand of car, even if it wasn’t the all-out performance model the factories raced.

Again, refer to #928 above.

NASCAR really drifted away from STOCK CAR racing sometime during the mid-seventies, when one could no longer purchase a car with things such as a 400+ hp engine, 4-speed manual transmission, 2-door hardtop sporty body STYLE like the ones that were raced. By the 1980′s, rule changes allowed extensive body/frame/engine modification, further distancing these vehicles from STOCK CARS. By the 1990′s,
we started seeing cars that NO manufacturer even produced: witness the TWO-DOOR Ford Taurus. This car was, in reality, a transverse mounted V-6 front wheel drive car in STOCK form, with no 2-door body style available at all.
No manual trans. No V-8. An ‘imaginary’ car.

Which brings us to today. As we all know, the France family dynasty dictates to us what a ‘stock car’ is.
Today’s VEHICLES are not stock cars.
They have custom body designs unrecognizable from anything that would ever be seen on the street with real people driving AND BUYING them. For Crying Out Loud: a Toyota Camry with pushrod V-8, rear wheel drive, custom tube chassis built to a standardized approved racing spec.
An unrecognizable body further obscured with so much advertising on them, I wonder if I would even recognize ANY actual car one COULD buy, if IT were emblazoned with 50 different screaming colors, with the HUGE sponsor markings of banks, laundry detergents, soda pop, prescription drugs, etc. on them (or anything else having nothing to do with cars).

A previous poster observed that the NASCAR of today seems to remind of Pro Wrestling. I can see their point and have to somewhat (and sadly) agree. In my day, nobody was booed or hated by spectators… beer cans being thrown… people behaving like something less than the enthusiastic lady and gentlemen fans did during Real Racing’s past.

Frankly, to me it doesn’t matter whether or not Toyota, or for that matter if even Chinese brands begin racing in today’s NASCAR.

If you enjoy looking at NASCAR, then good for you. Enjoy yourselves. I, for one no longer do, and I miss those days of thunder more than I could ever express with mere words.

Thank you.

March 31, 2007 at 12:48 am
(854) NE Man says:

Thank you for your insight. I think if they want to keep the current NASCAR, they should offer a purely stock alternative sport. A sport separate from current NASCAR, but still affiliated. Take off the useless decals, make it pure stock, and let anyone who offers a current stock version of that race vehicle in. That, i think, would satisfy everyone. If not, youre too hard to please and you shouldnt talk anymore. :P

March 31, 2007 at 2:32 am
(855) Todd W says:

Ummm…i don’t really think he’s agreeing with you NEMan.

Notice when he types “..For crying out loud: A Toyota Camry with a push rod V8, rear wheel drive’

He’s hinting to what a RIP OFF that is. (which it obviously no doubt in fact truly is)

Like a lot of fans he could care less who is allowed in because moves like allowing Toyota in is too much of a slap in the face to traditional NASCAR. NASCAR understands that this new generation of fans (like yourself) has entirely no clue of what defines NASCAR — They really believe Toyota is in fact competing in NASCAR legitimately. Which is so far from the truth that it’s pathetic. The entire Camry is a rip off of long established domestic speed parts, and domestic engineering — incredibly lame.

To that last poster, I was the one who made the comparison to pro wrestling. That’s NASCAR’s target fan base now — Those who are really ignorant to what defines NASCAR (the car itself) — They are just perplexed by the entertainment angle, they have no clue as to the decades of NASCAR tradition being dumped on it’s ear just in order to grab this new breed of fan, who can’t tell a camshaft from a crankshaft.

I agree too that there is too much tweaking allowed with the cars. Used to be the manufacturers would send in the sheet metal (when the Lumina was running, etc.) — They have just lost touch with keeping the sport simple. But regardless, you can still go out and buy a brand new engine of same dimension, and spec even from all of the domestic manufacturers. NASCAR is based upon the 60′s muscle car which each of the domestics had their hand in evolving. The floor boards of those cars on the tracks today are taken from the exact dimensions of a 1965 Ford Galaxy (even the Camry!)

Toyota doesn’t fit into, has no history, and will never adapt into NASCAR, which as the poster pointed out — Is still fundamentally run on the American muscle car platform. Tube chassis or not. Toyota’s attempt to disguise it’s Camry as a legitimate American muscle car is appalling. That muscle car layout will always be American regardless of how bad Toyota or Honda want to steal it.

I am in agreement to with NASCAR as becoming somewhat of a bore. Removing Darlington from the schedule to be replaced by another cookie cutter track?…And why? Because as with everything else; NASCAR is selling out on what made it what it is in the first place. I would much rather watch historic trans am cars run in historic sanctioned events like in Monterey. There is an active historic NASCAR circuit which runs everything from the mid sixties through 80′s called the HSCA as well. What’s hilarious is how the Toyota fans feel like they have won something, or are getting some much deserved respect for that ‘Camry’ running in NASCAR. Too bad they are all ignorant to the fact that they are really behind an American muscle car design, ripped off, and disguised as a Camry.

Obviously that speaks volumes of the Toyota fans ignorance. After all, what crate engines have they ever been around to tell the difference? Answer — Simply none….And for a fact none from their backing manufacturer, because they have no history in that like everything else they’re sticking their name onto.

March 31, 2007 at 3:34 pm
(856) Road Hog says:

Wow… spawns some thought.

– seems like any place that there are thousands of people with beer in cans, there will be some can throwing.

– Can somebody assess how much of a current “American” NASCAR Car is made in america? Certainly stock cars are rather low percentage from a parts perpective.

March 31, 2007 at 7:09 pm
(857) NE Man says:

I realize that poster wasnt agreeing with me, Todd. Does anyone have any objections to the two different NASCARs? One with current cars, and one with pure stock cars where you have to be able to provied ‘Average Joe’ with the same model and engine in order to be permitted in. I think that would be a fair compromise and from NASCARs perspective it should bring in more fans and more revenue.

March 31, 2007 at 8:42 pm
(858) NASCAR Fan says:

NASCAR = WWE on Wheels says:
January 13, 2007 at 9:35 am

nASScar is professional wrestling on wheels. For all of you WWE fans out there, that is not a compliment.

That don’t look like your handle to me!

March 31, 2007 at 9:02 pm
(859) Todd W says:

My handle? Read post 741 of mine again (yes that was my ‘handle’)

….And NEMan you’re missing the entire point….

A truly ‘stock’ event with today’s vehicles isn’t an option. The average fwd sedan wasn’t designed to be driven at top end for long durations of time — The are street based econo cars!

They would have to be modified; gears, transmission, computers, suspension, bracing, on and on…

It would be triple the cost of what it costs the Elite division of NASCAR, not too a tech nightmare to inspect if they did modify them. Did you ever see the actual cars throw up sparks coming out of a high speed turn in a bank? The bumps at Daytona for example, imagine if that were a real Camry even doing just 130 mph — You would brake something in the undercarriage, and slam the wall….in that order.

The point your missing is simply — today’s cars and engines weren’t designed for racing!!!!

But those muscle cars, and engines of the 60′s were! Blueprints at the factory had NASCAR, and the super stock class of NHRA strictly in mind. Here’s a link to a stock 1960 Buick Invicta that ran Daytona with no mods non stop for ten thousand miles! (Add http: to the start)


They even refueled it while it was doing 100 plus mph like you would a jet in mid air. (By the way, that year Buick was the model of choice for heroin smuggling, and was the actual inspiration for the ‘French Connection’ film, and novel. Not because of performance, but because you could stash large quantities of contraband in the body panels) — just a random fact. Point being; Those cars then (unlike the Toyota’s of today) — had character to go along with the rugged performance.

So you see NE Man, that’s why we see those old push rod V8′s, floor pan dimensions, heavy duty suspension, etc. still in use by NASCAR today — because they were built for this sort of thing. Even though the cars aren’t ‘stock’ anymore, each of those parts on the race cars were at one period of time — in domestic auto’s…Never in Toyota’s! Do you understand know?

As to the question of the other poster of ‘how much of those cars are indeed American?’

The answer — 100 percent. Engine, bell housing, suspension, trans, trailing arms, ignition, rear end, fuel cell, gauges, exhaust, radiator, brakes, tires, sheet metal…..Everything!

March 31, 2007 at 9:18 pm
(860) NE Man says:

Then dont complain about it not being stock. As for the parts all being American, not anymore they arent. I dont think he meant where was it developed. He meant where are they manufactured. You cannot sit there and tell me everything on that track is manufactured/assembled in America.

March 31, 2007 at 9:22 pm
(861) NASCAR Fan says:

Your post 741 is entirely too long to read. It starts with what has become ‘your’ typical fashion. Expressing your knowledge to others, rather if they want it or not.

March 31, 2007 at 9:35 pm
(862) Todd W says:

Tell me one part that isn’t NEMan? Lets just see if we can spot something

Suspension: Moog, Clevite, Wilwood, late sixties GM ‘truck arms’

Power train: Comp cams, Edelbrock, MSD, Mr. Gasket, Cloyes timing gear, Holley ‘demon’ carb, Fluidyne, Fram, C&R aluminum radiator, Flowmaster, Mallory ignition, Hurst, Champion, Autolite, Manly valves, Milodin oil pans, Optima batteries, Aeroquip AN type fittings and hoses,

All American speed parts NEMan. Maybe you can point out the ‘non American’ stuff because I’m not finding any.

March 31, 2007 at 9:38 pm
(863) Todd W says:

To that other poster –

Well if your not reading my posts, refrain from being the judge on what I say then. Simple as that.

March 31, 2007 at 9:45 pm
(864) NASCAR Fan says:

Not an issue. But keep in mind there are two sides to every transmission.
Don’t take credit from my post #65, and I won’t judge you!

March 31, 2007 at 9:54 pm
(865) Todd W says:

You actually think I read every single post here? I got here around the late 700′s, maybe later!!!

I typed out NASCAR and the pro wrestling comparison in a lot more depth on top of it all. Comparing France Jr. with the pro wrestling moron. I don’t need to ‘steal’ your material to make a point. Obviously I’m not the only one that sees that comparison then

March 31, 2007 at 10:03 pm
(866) NASCAR Fan says:

Wait one………….
Oh yes, you did say read your post 700 and whatever.
Now you say you have not read every post here, that you have only been around a few hundred postings.
Then surely you have missed quite a bit here then.

March 31, 2007 at 10:11 pm
(867) NE Man says:

You really do like to take things out of context dont you? I didnt say they werent developed here, because they were. But where are these parts manufactured/assembled? Not here of course. All American companies outsource.

March 31, 2007 at 10:11 pm
(868) Todd W says:

I over looked everything from 700 or so on back (except the first two maybe)

Your point again?

March 31, 2007 at 10:16 pm
(869) NASCAR Fan says:

My point?
I will have to do like wise, and begin to overlook newer posts.

March 31, 2007 at 10:23 pm
(870) Todd W says:

NEMan, all of that stuff is made in America. When you go down to the speed shop and buy a new Edelbrock performer manifold, or Holley carb, or JE piston, MSD distributor, or Comp cam package….’Made in America’ is on that box. (Usually right next to the American flag sticker right next to ‘Made in America’

The companies are based here, the machine shops were founded here and remain ‘here’

You are really desperate aren’t you? Why can’t you just face the obvious fact that NASCAR equals American performance parts? It’s a domestic form of racing only found in this country….My God, why not just acknowledge the obvious already?

Do you hate American products this much? Are you really that much of a Toyota supporter? What gives with you anyway?

March 31, 2007 at 11:07 pm
(871) Todd W says:

Did it finally sink in??!!

Hey NEMan, not only are all the components on the cars strictly American, all of the tools used in the garages are strictly American too!! Snap on, Craftsman, etc. Even the tape (3M) they use to tape up the wrecked sheet metal on pit stops is American!

That’s NASCAR for you NE Man, go figure? Everything seems to be American. Except that ‘Toyota’ brand — that just doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere.

March 31, 2007 at 11:41 pm
(872) toyota rules says:


April 1, 2007 at 5:45 am
(873) Todd W says:

Ignorant people these days…>>

April 1, 2007 at 10:51 am
(874) Lampredi's afterbirth says:

Toyota ruin NASCAR? More like NASCAR crippled the technical advancement of American performance engines. How far back in the past would you have to look to find a Ferrari engine with pushrods?

April 1, 2007 at 10:58 am
(875) toyota rules says:

Fact: Toyota entered and dominated the “Off-Road” series.
Fact: Toyota is the sole responsible party for the creation of the knock off events such as the stadium series.
Fact: Toyota entered F1, and has faltered.
Fact: Toyota builds components for other F1 s. For example: The 2007 Williams F1 Team, FW 29 car will use the Toyota built engine.
Fact: Toyota has entered NASCAR.
Fact: Toyota will overtake GM in worldwide sales this year.
Fact: The US big 2 outsource away from the US.
Fact: The German based Daimler outsources away from the US.
Fact: Toyota outsources to the US.
Fact: Toyota has opened plants in the contiguous lower 48.
Fact: Toyota has established itself as a automobile manufacturer that can be counted on not only in the auto industry, but as a US corporate team player, and partner to the eco-system.

Furthermore, I understand that racing is a sport. Companies are competitors, and may the best compilation win on race day. However, I’m displeased with the whole concept. How can we expect to be user friendly and environmental aware if we burn thousands of gallons of precious resources every week?
How can we not consider global warming and the effects of racing cars without emissions standards, if we do not mandate such standards?

Toyota more than likely will not dominate NASCAR like they did “Off-Road”, more than likely, they will falter as in F1. But the challenge has been made, and Toyota has stepped up to the plate.

Yes, that was me that you passed on the road. I was doing 65 in the 65 zone, and was riding with A/C, jams, cruise, and carrying on a conversation all the while getting over 40+MPG. We were headed to the mountains for an overnighter. Where were you headed? the gas station?

In review. Less than $14K invested in new car. Roomy enough for the family, camping gear and accessories. Over 40MPG, all options and necessities.

Yes, it’s quite clear to see who the ‘”ignorant” people are! ;)

Save your breath on Toyota in NASCAR, and exhale it towards NASCAR, and mandating emissions to help protect the atmosphere. Or eventually, none of us will have any breath left!

April 1, 2007 at 12:37 pm
(876) NE Man says:

While i agree with you on Toyota taking up the NASCAR challenge, and why shouldnt they, i disagree with the global warming aspect of it. Yeah they should push for better fuel conservation, because that will soon become scarce, but there is a lot of eveidence out there to suggest that global warming is a natural phenomenon and would happen regardless of human intervention. Saving fuel is still a necessity.

April 1, 2007 at 12:52 pm
(877) Todd W says:

This just in — Toyota’s going to save the %^$#^@! planet now!!

It’s funny when confronted with the fundamentals of the debate about Toyota in NASCAR (copying design, using American performance equipment, etc. all)

– The topic always shifts too something else like ‘F1′ or ‘off road’, or ‘drift racing’

If not that, it’s the Toyota’s are made in America, and I like that ’cause the other cars aren’t!

When it comes to how Toyota is ripping off domestic design in NASCAR (age old design) — Well, we don’t want to get into that right?…And it’s perfectly ok for no good reason whatsoever.


Here’s a few more facts (again) about the non related auto industry argument –

For every vehicle General Motors sells a little more than 9 jobs in the US are supported (ABC World News Tonight, May 2005). Why is this? Because GM still uses more AMERICAN MADE parts in their vehicles than the non-american car companies do. In fact it is the Japanese Auto Manufacturing Associations (which Toyota is a member of) position to use as many parts as possible from other countries (Detroit Auto News).

Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have employed hundreds of millions of people here in the US. GM is the second largest provider of health insurance in this country.

They have supported, and helped this country win two world wars (which side did Toyota support?). Would the Toyota Corporation do the same?

General Motors is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Ford is officially listed as an AMERICAN COMPANY. Dodge, a subsidary of Damlier Chrysler, is officially listed as a GERMAN-AMERICAN COMPANY. Toyota is officially listed as a JAPANESE COMPANY.

So enough on that…

As far as your comments about your economical concerns, and how your yugo gets 65 mpg — spare me that please. If I was that concerned with fuel mileage, I would ride a motorcycle instead (an American bike at that) before I was caught dead in your clap trap. I guess nothing the domestic outfits are doing counts either, not the E85 pumps, 8 cylinder engines, dropping down to four for highway cruising….none of those things, including the domestic research either right?

Regardless, the average American vinatge car enthusiast must be responsible for one tenth, of one percent of pollution — if that! Besides, we tend to tune up our own rigs up to twenty times as much as the average Toyota ‘commuter’ who goes through a drive through just to get their oil changes, while they stuff their face.

…And the next time I blur past you when your headed to the mountains, wearing your sandals, driving your yugo, with the rinky dink glove box stuffed full of granola bars — I’m going to say ‘Glad I’m not one of those Walter Mitty, sandal wearin types like that guy!’

…And as for how you’re going to be ‘carrying on a conversation’ while cruising along…I might slow down just enough to scream ‘Hang up and drive moron’ before I blow past you. Because wouldn’t you know it, it’s the earth conscious, planet saving types like you that are usually the ones responsible for wiping out an entire family coming back from the mountain, because you have to chat about American idol on your gadgetry cell phone at the wheel. Keep it where it belongs (In that goofy little holster clipped to your belt)

Because if your 14 thousand dollar ‘new car’ is the cause to some damage to my 30 plus year domestic, (that doubles it in value) — because of your carelessness — expect a steel toed work boot up your @$@ — not a sandal!

April 1, 2007 at 1:13 pm
(878) toyota rules says:

Fact: Automobiles produce CO2.
Fact: Human destruction of the planets surface has decreased the amount of CO2 absorbing ecology.
Fact: The more CO2 produced, the less vegetation to absorb it, the greater amount of CO2 radicals are left to rise to the atmosphere.
Fact: To reduce CO2 production we need stricter eco-system laws mandating pollution control. IE. Forget about the credits. Shut the plants down. Mandate increased fuel economy. GM is currently under heavy fire, and claims they have surpassed the 2005 goal by 10%.
Fact: If every individual did their share. If the racing industry was placed into CO2 restrictions, and they contributed to their share of reduction. And, if industry were mandated to replace 10% more to the eco-system as they withdrew we could then be worry free. However, as an individualist society, we will take on the form of “why do I have to”? Look elsewhere, how can they and not me?
Fact: When looking elsewhere, they have not destroyed all of their marshlands and forests. They can have a bit more pollution and still maintain less CO2 distribution than can the US.
Fact: As the polar ice caps melt, they release stored CO2. This in addition to current levels ARE increasing global warming.
Fact: The polar ice caps re-freeze, however, they do not take in as much CO2 as they previously released while melting.
Fact: The US auto industry can do better. All they have to do is follow Toyota’s lead!

April 1, 2007 at 1:27 pm
(879) toyota rules says:

Fact: I did not say anything about a cell phone.
Fact: You took the word conversation, and parlayed it into your own vision of what is not! The word conversation in that message was as in with the family, you do realize people get married and have kids don’t you. They travel in a car that does not make noise, and therefore can carry on a family conversation?
Fact: We own a Toyota Yaris.
Fact: You in an attempt to make up for critical thinking skills reverted to obtuse hick language and attempted an insult with calling it a Yugo. Well good for you! You failed in one instance, and prevailed in another! Did not realize you were such an ignorant simpleton hick.

Does anybody here really care about what parts are used?
Does anybody here really care about how they do as others do, but yet have to right?

In review, other than the poster above, does anybody here really read or care what ‘he’ posts?

April 1, 2007 at 1:31 pm
(880) Todd W says:

How are they going to follow ‘Toyota’s lead’ when as you say….

“they are burning thousands of gallons of gasoline every week” at these dang blasted NASCAR events?

….And using an American copied push rod V8 that dates back to 1955 in order to do it on top of it al!!!

Would the earth friendly Toyota corporation really commit such an atrocity as that??

What a crime!!

…And for once I will have to agree with NEMan on the ‘global warming’ debate Mr. ‘Earth friendly’

Number one, your out of left field, foot stamping tirade about global warming has zero to do with the topic, and number two there’s just as many ‘facts’ to argue against your planet saving cause.

April 1, 2007 at 1:31 pm
(881) toyota rules says:

Green flag time, time to drop this connection and log into TiVO!

April 1, 2007 at 2:02 pm
(882) Todd W says:

Just what you would expect to hear coming from an ‘environmentalist’

April 1, 2007 at 2:24 pm
(883) Lampredi's afterbirth says:

Todd Windbag, Ye said “your out of left field, foot stamping tirade about global warming ”
Actually The Toyota guy sounded very calm and well informed. He even knew that having his car called a yugo was not a insult as you intended. The yugo’s engine was designed by Ferrari engine designer Carlo Lampredi for Fiat and can kick ass with minimal work. They get about half the mpg you pulled out of your ass, but the fuel injected version will do 115 stock. Are you serious about everything you say or are you just trying to make NASCAR fans look like WWF fans?

April 1, 2007 at 7:24 pm
(884) NE Man says:

Where did you get your research Todd? Did you do that yourself… oh thats right… you didnt. You got that from the forum on this topic. The very last post, word for word. Get real Todd. The only arguments you give anymore are somebody elses. Give up and get a life. I have an idea Toyota people, and just veryone in general who is tired of Todd Windbag, lets ignore the troll and let him do his tirades. Dont read his posts anymore and he might just go away.

April 1, 2007 at 10:04 pm
(885) toyota rules says:

Fact: Toyota has taken the lead in all of North American automobile manufacturers in the planet/green friendly product aspect.
Fallacy: Toyota uses American copied push rod V8 engines that dates back to 1955 in their vehicles.
Fact: Toyota uses Toyota technology that incorporates a DOHC system to produce their production V8 motors.
Fallacy: I wear sandals.
Fact: I wear closed toed shoes, mainly “Timberland” when off to the mountains, and “Rockford’s” intermixed with “Hush-Puppies” to work.
Fact: It is 2007, and the United States is still a free country.
Fallacy: It’s the dark ages and whomever can yell the loudest the longest must be right, and therefore everybody else is denied freedom of thought, speech, and choice.
Fact: I support Toyota as do my colleagues, and we support Ford with their (pathetic attempt) Hybrid vehicles, and we support GM with their plant pollution control revampment system along with their future hybrid product.
Fallacy: “…the average American vinatge car enthusiast must be responsible for one tenth, of one percent of pollution…”

You might want to check here to see just how much pollution you are producing.

If the domestic auto manufacturers were really concerned as they lead people like you to believe, Toyota would not have the upper hand. They would be the ones with a product line exceeding mandated requirements not Toyota. Additionally, they would not be currently lobbying congress to ease up on the CAFI standards, they would be reaping the benefits. Kinda like Toyota. And, they would have something more than a pathetic excuse for an SUV in their line up. But, it is a starting point, and that is all anyone can ask for.

April 1, 2007 at 10:35 pm
(886) Todd W says:

Oh, lets hope he just goes away NEMan! Because you and the Aetheist (probably his tenth identity in here) can’t counter the arguments against a foreign car company joining NASCAR,

Sob, sob, boo hoo!!!

“Lets all ignore him”

Who’s all NEMan? You and the Aetheist’s ten identities?

You should hope all of your own postings are ignorered instead actually. Like….

“Those parts aren’t all American are they?”

“Lets start a ‘strictly stock’ NASCAR for stock front wheel drive Toyota’s and stuff” : )

“NASCAR is polluting the landscape….Gotta go though — green flag!”

“Those Yugo’s have the race bred soul of a Ferrari”

Enjoy the race today ‘Toyota rules’ aka ‘Aeithiest’ aka whoever else?

Maybe next week Toyota will at least finish in the top twenty-five…

ha ha ha

April 1, 2007 at 10:57 pm

Your EPA link is fake like YOU, since when does a vehicle that get worse gas milage than My 04 F150 4.6 4×4, aka same truck 5.4 and CA emissions cleaner when it burns 20% more fuel to do the same job? oh yeah is more government BS like “its your duty to pay taxes” conterdiction in terms like GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE, just like a 2 stroke weed wacker that uses maybe 3 gallons of gas and 9oz of oil in a whole year pollutes as much as my F150 drivin 10,000 miles, Liberals can’t talk truth!

April 1, 2007 at 11:13 pm

Hey did some moron way up there say NASCAR is NOT a sport? it’s on ESPN so um I really belive it is, but then again poker is considered a sport by some. The best thing about NASCAR is there are very few if any MINORITY drivers! REDNECKS RULE.

April 1, 2007 at 11:28 pm
(889) Todd W says:

Is it a sport? It’s the most popular outdoor sporting event in the country!

I wonder when TURD racing development is going to make their ‘Camry’ V8 crate engine available to the American public? (Like GM, Dodge, and Ford have been doing for decades now). Guess all you Toyota supporters out there will have to buy a vintage American car just in order to install and operate it.

ha ha ha

April 1, 2007 at 11:30 pm
(890) NE Man says:

And ignorance reigns supreme with MORONSDRIVEIMPORTS. You know the big 3 hit their peak with vintage cars. In the last 15 years the quality has gone downhill and their plants have moved out of the country. Thye moved because they couldnt afford to stay here. Why? The quality wasnt what it used to be. Inferior products yeild bad results. Its called business sense. A previous poster worked for Ford, then Honda, and said Honda made a much better product, right down to the steel they used to produce it. I tend to believe that. I hear talk of ‘GM produces 9 jobs opposed to Toyotas.’ Thats because they are inefficient. It takes 9 people to build one vehicle and it takes 3 to build one Toyota. They know efficeincy. And so what if they build in a poorer part of the country. Isnt that a good thing supplying poor people with jobs? Correct me if im wrong, but if Toyota werent there would GM be there instead? NO! Because GM is outsourcing more and more jobs every year. Oh and bigots and racists like Mr. Moron, are ignorant hicks who need to be sterilized before they spread stupid across this once great country of ours. Ignorance is a disease and people like you need to be cured of that disease.

April 1, 2007 at 11:58 pm

“I hear talk of ‘GM produces 9 jobs opposed to Toyotas.’ Thats because they are inefficient. It takes 9 people to build one vehicle and it takes 3 to build one Toyota.”
It probably takes 20 to build a Toy, the fact is that 17 are NOT IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April 2, 2007 at 12:05 am
(892) Todd W says:

ha ha ha

You gripe about racism, yet refer to someone as a ‘hick’ in the same sentence. The quality that goes into your beloved imports isn’t some miraculous feat NEMan. As for ‘hitting their peak’

The muscle car is still hitting it’s peak in Detroit, it hasn’t gone anywhere. What’s all the buzz about at your local auto show? Chances are it’s those soon to be released American cars like the upcoming Camaro, and Challenger, or Ford interceptor, or super charged Mustangs.. The Camaro with an all aluminum small block Chevrolet right off the lot…Excuse us all for not falling all over ourselves because the new Civic has a new shape to it next year (roll out the new body kits for the kids! Don’t forget to plug your Nintendo wii into the cigarette lighter kiddies).

…And if Toyota could have their way, we would all be rolling around in that cube the Nintendo wii morons are driving in those commercials, to pawn off that waste of brain video game system to the public. Sad fact is, a lot of you Toyota supporters would welcome such garbage with open arms like the brain dead gaming system. Look! — You can fish on your TV with an imaginary reel! Yay, that’s Japanese innovation for ya!

: )

This is America remember? We are second to none when it comes to industry. The only global super power on the planet right now. First in flight, innovators of oval track, and drag racing, first to produce one hp per one cubic inch in an automobile engine, first to the moon!

There is nothing we can’t do (and do better) than any foreign country when it comes to industry, lets face it.

April 2, 2007 at 12:16 am

…And if Toyota could have their way, we would all be rolling around in that cube the Nintendo wii morons are driving in those commercials, to pawn off that waste of brain video game system to the public.

I haven’t seen the commercial, ARE THE DRIVING SCION XB’s? LOL

April 2, 2007 at 12:24 am
(894) Todd W says:

Probably so, but like the Yugo — I’m sure it has the potential to become a full tilt ‘street machine’

Right ‘Lampredi’s afterbirth’ aka ‘Toyota rules’ aka ‘Toyota rocks’ aka ‘The aethiest’

April 2, 2007 at 12:31 am
(895) Todd W says:

…And with minimal effort too! After all, that fuel injected Yugo tops out at a blistering 115 mph!!!!

Just watch out for minor road imperfections, or you will be flying the thing literally!

April 2, 2007 at 3:02 am
(896) Todd W says:

Here’s a few more facts for you all to consider –

Toyota brags in ads about its growing list of U.S. plants, yet it imported 37% more cars from Japan last year than it did the previous year.

Detroit’s Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources.

Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%.

“The data is clear: Domestic auto plants create more jobs in this country than overseas producers who locate here,” says United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger in a statement to USA TODAY.

All told, each of the Detroit automakers supports 2½ times more U.S. jobs than Toyota, says Jim Doyle, president of the Level Field Institute, a Washington research group.

Toyota imported close to half of all the vehicles it sold in the USA last year from Japan, including all its gas-electric hybrids and most of its luxury Lexus division vehicles.

Toyota announced that a new assembly plant will be built in Tupelo, Miss., its fifth in the USA

Guess what? There’s a string of billboards springing up all over this country by GM to educate you ‘Toyota’ loyalists. It simply reads:

‘We have ten plants too’…..’In Ohio’ (GM: Fifty-four plants in the United states alone)

link (add http:) //img167.imageshack.us/img167/1660/billboardca4.jpg

Spare us the misguided ‘Toyota is doing more for this country’ argument; because it’s a complete, and ignorant misconception. Just like your desperate attempts to some how vindicate Toyota in robbing from decades old ‘American’ performance design. Just in order just to compete with the design on decades old oval tracks across this country like at Martinsville today.

The last place on earth the name ‘Camry’ belongs is on the asphalt in Martinsville. It’s such a copied rip off of American tradition that it’s embarrassing. Toyota doesn’t belong in NASCAR period! The foundation of NASCAR is ‘American’ performance; that’s what makes NASCAR — NASCAR! We play the national anthem prior to green, while American jets conduct a fly over, right before those American small block’s sitting in each car are fired — Allowing Toyota to buy it’s way into American tradition such as that is a disgrace.

….And anybody in support of it is either ignorant, or has zero sense of American pride, and tradition. Simple as that.

April 2, 2007 at 8:39 am
(897) toyota rules says:

Two things for you.
Fact: Mr. Bush signed the NAFTA: “The agreement was initially pursued by conservative governments in the United States and Canada supportive of free trade, led by Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and the Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari. The three-nation NAFTA was signed on 17 December 1992, pending its ratification by the legislatures of the three countries”. His final political parting shot to the conservatives that failed to re-elect him.

Fact: The EPA site is a reciprocating chart. Say for instance you have a Toyota Yaris which by the way produces less than 0.45 pounds CO2 per mile, it’s greenhouse rating = 10, the highest, or best in class.

Then for example, take a vintage should have already been crushed because it has exceeded the manufacturers intended life expectancy gross polluter and chart it. It is somewhere below the current level of acceptance at greater than 1.35 pounds CO2 per mile. It has a greenhouse rating of 0. Which is beyond terrible, and could be considered negligenece in most CAFI states. However, from what I can read here thou, that would certainly equal the attitudes presented.

April 2, 2007 at 8:54 am
(898) toyota rules says:

Poster of 978.
Fallacy: “…And if Toyota could have their way, we would all be rolling around in that cube the Nintendo wii morons are driving in those commercials, to pawn off that waste of brain video game system to the public”.

Fact: That car is a Europe based model. Been over there for several years now.

April 2, 2007 at 9:35 am
(899) Todd W says:

You would know the make and model of that boxy death trap.

..And your leftist propaganda is completely off topic here in the first place ‘Aethiest’

You have no idea how to hang in the discussion, so it’s time to avoid it altogether.

Like your fake war story rambles, and your earth conscious approach. You can take your little EPA fact finding report and read into it really well. Because unlike you, it doesn’t apply to myself. My auto is exempt from emissions testing of any sort in my state (I can do whatever I want)…

I can legally stroll out and bolt a 6-71 super charger to my car, and drive it until hell freezes over. I bet that really gets under you and your fellow leftist tree huggers skin…And I’m glad that it does. In fact I’m in the market for a ‘new’ second set of wheels. I’m thinking something out of the late fifties, maybe a long sleek, finned 59 Caddy, in hot ^%#$@&^ pink, and free of any japanese gadgetry whatsover. I want one with the original ‘Hi way, Hi Fi’ turn table mounted right on the trans hump. Just so I can play my 45′s, and reminisce to a time in this country when a man got married to something; it was a woman! Your abnormal leftist ideals was tucked away in the backwards closet imaginations of yours where it belongs.

April 2, 2007 at 11:32 am

In three separate ceremonies in the three capitals on Dec. 17, 1992, President Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney signed the historic North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The framework agreement proposed to eliminate restrictions on the flow of goods, services, and investment in North America. The House of Representatives approved NAFTA, by a vote of 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993, and the Senate voted 60 to 38 for approval on November 20. It was signed into law by President Clinton on December 8, 1993, and took effect on January 1, 1994.

THANK YOU MR.CLINTON, the draft was written in 1992 and changed alot by Dec. 1993 when slick willy signed it.

April 2, 2007 at 11:40 am
April 2, 2007 at 12:00 pm

Its CAFE not CAFI, you are so uneducated You have been boasting you know it all FACT: crap for too long. I have a fact for you. FACT: In the early 90′s a Metro got 55+ MPG. Fact: an 2007 Aveo only gets 35 Hwy MPG. Fact: 1 gallon of gas only contains so much C02.
Fact: Cars where De-Tuned in 1975 up models to make the Catilyst work.
Fact a 1973 LTD with a 302 got 12/16 and 1975 same basic car got 10/14
Fact: the EPA is screwing us like the Import buyers.
Fact: Just because the goverment tells you It pollutes less dosen’t mean its true!

April 2, 2007 at 12:19 pm

This is taken from the site I listed above. This proves the EPA is FAKE!
Alternative fuel vehicles use something other than gas or diesel, which includes natural gas, hydrogen, propane, ethanol, bio-diesel etc. The CAFE standard for these is determined by dividing the fuel economy in equivalent miles per gallon of fuel (gas, diesel) by 0.15. Thus a 15 mpg alternative fuel vehicle would be rated as 100 mpg. So if the big 3 made every car burn E85, Their CAFE number would be something like 200 MPG. Also cars do not use the most of our fuels. Our Houses use Propane, Natrual Gas, Fuel Oil, or Coal to make electrity, Where’s their Emissions equiptment? Just think how much fuel it takes to heat your Dome in the winter for football!

April 2, 2007 at 2:58 pm
(904) NASCAR Fan says:

Why yes I did go back and take a brief moment to overlook your post 741 again.

I am now in complete agreement.

The poster ‘Fluffy The Cat’ was in fact referencing my post #65 about comparing NASCAR to pro-wrestling.

As stated you cannot clearly define what it is you are comparing there, is it apples to mangos, or steel toed boot wearing homo-sapiens to bipedals?

Clearly you are as winded as others here have said of you.

And my point is? Don’t show up here after several hundred postings, then claim moronic supremacy through sheer stupidity on your part. The first 600 or so postings were at least readable, some contained arguable points, and others were just the precursor to you, idiotic!

Maybe the reason so many people have left from here is you alone. Has that thought ever crossed through your cranium housing group?

Maybe the reason other people ‘might’ have taken on a different persona is again, you? Just to through you another flame bait, and watch you run with it? Some are quite entertaining!

Surely you are the epitome of the braggart class. The first and last word slayer over the last two hundred plus postings.

And sadly, NONE of it is valid, useful, or arguable anywhere else except here, where you have taken up the torch as permanent “Mr. Windbag” (I like that) troll overseer of the forum.

Tis a sad day when a single person with a simpleton outlook can eradicate an entire internet comment forum with nothing but personal biased stupid remarks.

BTW: Has it sunk in yet? Who cares anymore about what you say. Your post are too long to read, and if one were to read them, as in the case of 741, it really says nothing about the topic here, only what you feel about your shortcomings, and your inept ability to do anything automotively competent.

April 2, 2007 at 9:26 pm
(905) Todd W says:

How ironic that you waste that entire ramble on me,

…My posts at least touch upon the subject matter ‘Aethiest’

…unlike your last one. What’s really puzzling is how ‘NASCAR fan’ can’t ague about NASCAR.

…And if I scare you or anybody else from posting in a NASCAR blog, who’s fault is that really? After all, I’m still using the initial name I entered the blog with, and diving deep into content related to NASCAR still

…unlike yourself.

or the Toyota supporters or is it supporters)

– who wants to shift away to NAFTA, green peace, etc.

When are you going to start talking cars like a real ‘NASCAR fan’? Or is this yet another distraction for ‘Toyota rules’ because his EPA argument is invalid? Wouldn’t surprise me, after all, that has been the theme here for the last 400 posts when the minority of a the Toyota supporters are challenged on the simplest of issues relating to the subject.

April 2, 2007 at 9:49 pm
(906) toyota rules says:

You do realize there are three types of intelligence don’t you?

Knowledge of the first kind; Body realization and sense. What you know as a human in order to function, and as acquired through life experiences. Rational experience and application of common occurrences and building stages.

Knowledge of the second kind; Mind development through reason and understanding. The understanding of the sciences as they affect our bodies and minds, as well as deeper understanding and thought provoking processes. Here also is where ethics, religion, and definition of substance are acquired.

Knowledge of the third kind: Critical thinking and thought provoking skills which is a direct result of the formal essence of the sciences.

Therefore, it is my personal feeling that all people capable of being here are au courant within this topic, and topics that may provide valid data for this topic.

With that.
Fact: Google is a powerful tool, so powerful in fact that it can transform a capable capuchin into a literary Einstein.
Fact through knowledge of the second kind; The incoming President elect is faced with the policies of the outgoing President. As you now know, it was Bush 41 who initiated the NAFTA, and it was steam rolled through the conservative congress to President Clinton.

Fact: “Its CAFE not CAFI, you are so uneducated You have been boasting you know it all FACT: crap for too long…”
Fact: To a capable googling capuchin it is CAFE, and while you are their enjoying your Caffè e latte and pirouette wafer, get me a cup of coffee. I like it like I like my women, hot and black. I need the boost to finish the CAFI, which by the way is an ‘INDEX’, hint the I at the end.
Fallacy: The EPA is fake.
Fact: You went so far as to include a link to support the EPA.

April 2, 2007 at 11:10 pm
(907) Michael says:

3 Things

1) Nascar stands for National Stock Car … not North American

2) The cars are not stock. Can you today buy an Impala or Fusion in a Front engine, rear wheel drive with a V8 under the hood?

3) Get over it. NASCAR has just become another marketing ploy to get you into the show room. Maybe years ago when you could buy a race trim car from the show room it meant something.

If a manufacturer wants to spend money on marketing let them. You don’t have to buy the product.

April 2, 2007 at 11:21 pm
(908) NE Man says:

I wonder how much it would hurt Todd’s feelings to know that we are all three different people. Aetheist was Toyota Rocks not toyota rules. And to MORON if you even read my earlier comments i agree that American trucks are superior to imports. Get educated about this site before you start pointing fingers at people. Toyota, no matter what you say, has a superior product and all unbiased reports say so. And whatever it is they drive in those Nintendo commercials is a stupid design and ive said that ever since they came out. I dont support everything import. You all say its an all or nothing situation. I have the right to pick and choose what cars from what manufacturers i want. When i can finally afford one i want a Corvette. Why? Because its my choice to go with one. Until then, in my experience, American cars are next to worthless. SO, when i finally sell my POS 2005 Cavalier im getting an import, probably a Corolla or a Camry. Why is that? Because for my job i drive around a lot. I use a lot of gas. With my Cavalier i can maybe get 25-30 MPG highway. My gf gets 40 city in her Corolla. Lets see… what is the logical choice for my pocket book?

Corolla S: $15,350
Camry CE: $18,470
Impala: $21,630
Mustang: $20,000
Fusion: $18-23,000

These are all taken from official sites. I even listed a more expensive version of the Corolla. The cheapest American car is the Fusion, but is it really the same quality the Camry or Corolla is?

April 3, 2007 at 12:02 am
(909) Todd W says:

Michael — Can you buy a front engine rear wheel drive Impala, Fusion?

You could buy a fairly new rear drive Impala, with an LT-1 small block that is the same exact dimensions as the NASCAR motor. Bolt a 2 thousand dollar ‘American’ Paxton charger on that big heavy car, and the front tires will come up of the ground literally. Can’t say the same for Toyota though.

You can order any of the domestic engines on the track in a crate, can’t say the same for Toyota.

…And if you want a corvette so bad NE Man, why not get your hands a bit dirty (learn something in the process) and for half the price create your own?

Problem with you like a lot of the Toyota supporters; you have to have everything made for them. Instead of paying 50 grand for a Corvette, I would rather have a 55 Chevy that handles like a Corvette, with Corvette performance. There’s a swarm of tri five’s out there with Corvette suspensions underneath them, and Corvette small blocks under the hood for less than a new ‘performance’ Corvette.

You could get an early seventies Stingray in good condition, and drop at least a 400 horse small block in for what you are going to pay for a boring Camry….But that’s how you think, if you even knew half of your options when it comes to living your dream of owning a Corvette, you wouldn’t be talking about it like it’s some fantasy.

…And getting back to NASCAR, that line of thinking is responsible for NASCAR in the first place. Even in the early days none of those cars were literally stock. Guys swapped rears, stiffened suspensions, waited in line to adjust the wheel camber. Point being — They new cars, and how to pull performance from American cars. Domestic straight line and oval track was responsible for the pinnacle of the muscle car age, which is still the foundation of NASCAR, and which Toyota has no involvement in history wise, or even by today’s standards.

That’s not a ‘spin’ on the facts of the entire matter, like it or not; those are the facts. Without us American ‘car’ guy types; NASCAR wouldn’t be around in the first place for Toyota to scam it’s way into.

April 3, 2007 at 12:32 am
(910) NE Man says:

Point is: i dont have time to build a car. Im too busy. The time im on here is about my only down time. So those of us who dont build, we dont build because we dont have to. We dont need to. And we dont have time to. We have lives outside of cars.

April 3, 2007 at 12:41 am
(911) NASCAR Fan says:

Funny how the subject changed to Corvettes. The wife has spent the last couple hours looking over a special someones posting. She has come to a conclusion, and take no offense here NEMan, as you have just posted as we were reading and typing this post.

It took her about three ramblings to place this ‘special’ poster into a psychological profile, (she is a clinician psychologist) then continued to make more notes an comments. He shows severe signs of dissatisfaction with his life along with the events of his childhood. He is of the type that is in search of companionship. When he can not readily find this style of companion, he will lurk and bait for them. However, here he gets aggressive towards those that do not liken to his tall tales of macho automotive foreplay. Strangely enough, those few posters that do parlay with him, seem to leave and that aggravates him into a posting tantrum. Furthermore, he is close to, or fully a person who likes and seeks other people of the same gender. Since he cannot afford a middle aged same gender automobile (middle aged men who drive new Corvettes fit this profile well), he purports to have a macho vintage car in his dire need of same gender fellowship.

Furthermore, he has fallen into a zealous stage with another poster here which is why he keeps repeating that certain term (which BTW is misspelled).

Her final thoughts were he may be in danger of hurting himself, or others if he cannot find companionship relatively quickly.

So there you have it, Dr. (PhD) Meredeth has given her analysis of the situation along with her concluding thoughts.

I could probably win at lottery before I’d of ever guessed that one. Maybe there is reasons why so many have left.

I started posting here back in January with post #63, and have used my handle since the inception, except for #65 where I made a joke to another poster about NASCAR as compared to wrestling.

April 3, 2007 at 2:09 am
(912) Todd W says:

Still not (or avoiding) discussing NASCAR I see, ‘NASCAR’ fan!

Keep whatever bunk advice your wife pulls out of her latest copy of Dr Laura’s most recent manifesto to yourselves. I didn’t marry your know it all wife — you did. So tell her to go post her clinical ‘internet evaluations in Dr. Laura’s blog. In fact, why don’t you go write it for her because she obviously thinks for you on top of it all. No wonder you’re so pissed of at anybody who has the freedom to enjoy the hobby of wrenching on a vintage car.

“You will not bring any big noisy, hulking car into my driveway”!!!! “The garage is reserved for my pottery wheel, My AB machines, and my tanning bed”!!!

Coming of with this in a blog about NASCAR –

‘The wife has spent the last couple of hours reading through a bunch of car talk about small block engines, and NASCAR, and you know what? She has a PH. D, and she told me to post this for her, and I hold the title of comparing NASCAR to pro wrestling in here, and…

Give me a break!

Why don’t we just side step the BS and move back towards the point of the entire blog itself? ‘NASCAR fan’

April 3, 2007 at 2:28 am
(913) Todd W says:

…And NEMan, you mean to tell me with the only little bit of free time you have to spare…You spend every second of it in here?

…In a blog about NASCAR??

…a guy that has a ‘life outside of his car’

…spends every second of his free time blogging about cars!

Yeah, we believe that as much as your failed arguments regarding the entire blog.

April 3, 2007 at 2:38 am
(914) Todd W says:

Toyota sucks times Infiniti (I just wanted post ’1000′)

I thought it only fitting since I wield the power to strike fear into the hearts of all who attempt to post in a NASCAR blog. Now I’m going to roll up a big non filtered, go out and idle that V8 in my driveway for an hour, just to help this green house effect along. (or so my pollution ‘foot print’ can at least equal out to ten minutes of Al Gore’s light bill for the night)

April 3, 2007 at 1:54 pm

Toy Boy Said,
With that.
Fact: Google is a powerful tool, so powerful in fact that it can transform a capable capuchin into a literary Einstein.
Fact through knowledge of the second kind; The incoming President elect is faced with the policies of the outgoing President. As you now know, it was Bush 41 who initiated the NAFTA, and it was steam rolled through the conservative congress to President Clinton.

Fact: “Its CAFE not CAFI, you are so uneducated You have been boasting you know it all FACT: crap for too long…”
Fact: To a capable googling capuchin it is CAFE, and while you are their enjoying your Caffè e latte and pirouette wafer, get me a cup of coffee. I like it like I like my women, hot and black. I need the boost to finish the CAFI, which by the way is an ‘INDEX’, hint the I at the end.
Fallacy: The EPA is fake.
Fact: You went so far as to include a link to support the EPA.

First thing first, I learned about CAFE in grade school along with its negitive affects like, Lighter weight car = More deaths, and How new things like airbags and restaints are BS to make you FEEL safer. Also ANY President can VETO any law, Just watch CNN (comminewsnetwork) in the naxt couple monthes and you will learn how it is done. To be honest what is “Caffè e latte and pirouette wafer”? I have never heard of such a thing, I’d like a Cheesburger and a Coke please. BECAUSE I’M AMERICAN!
If you really like your Monkey women, You should be a gigolo at the local zoo. I like my women human, white and AMERICAN.
CAFI is something you GOOGLED, EPA is common and FAKE I included the link to show how fake it is, Just like you included a link for those DEATH TRAPS called SMART CARS, I’ll Show You SMART,
my LIFE isn’t worth a couple thousand bucks a year savings in MPGs. My full size truck would rip through one of those like tin foil. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THE EPA! or any other FAKE government crapola like the IRS.

April 3, 2007 at 2:15 pm

NE MAN wrote,
Until then, in my experience, American cars are next to worthless. SO, when i finally sell my POS 2005 Cavalier im getting an import, probably a Corolla or a Camry. Why is that? Because for my job i drive around a lot. I use a lot of gas. With my Cavalier i can maybe get 25-30 MPG highway. My gf gets 40 city in her Corolla. Lets see… what is the logical choice for my pocket book?

Corolla S: $15,350
Camry CE: $18,470
Impala: $21,630
Mustang: $20,000
Fusion: $18-23,000
You also tod me to get educated, I will educate YOU, ALL of the AMERICAN Cars you list are in totally different classes than a Corolla, and the only car that is in the same class as a Camry is a Fusion. A Mustang is a RWD sport coupe, and Impala is called a Full Size, another thing is a Corolla will never get 40 city, uless its a early 80′s DIESEL! all you POSERS need to leave quickly.

April 3, 2007 at 5:18 pm
(917) toyota rules says:

I know, I am a LOSER!

April 3, 2007 at 8:59 pm

toyota rules says:
April 3, 2007 at 5:18 pm

I know, I am a LOSER!

Wow! you finally admit you have been beaten. I am so proud! Thank You!
Now, go sell your Toy and buy a great american car.

April 3, 2007 at 9:26 pm
(919) toyota rules says:

Fact: Someone incapable of critical thinking posting under another’s guise in order to become or create someone they are truly incapable of otherwise.

Do you feel like a real person now?

Fact: I do not watch CNN, for the simple reason it’s biased.
Fact: I watch Fox news, for the “No Spin Factor”.
Fact: Presidents do have veto power.
Fallacy: “Just watch CNN (comminewsnetwork) in the naxt couple monthes and you will learn how it is done”.
Fact: It’s just as much your environment as mine.
Fact: What you chose to do, or not do today will have zero effect on you. However, it will have an effect on the following generations, and that is where people that actually do these things are selfish and inconsiderate people. Hopefully it is these people that will eliminate themselves from the gene pool through acts of Darwinism.

April 3, 2007 at 11:02 pm
(920) NE Man says:

How would you know a corolla doesnt get 40 mpg? Do you or someone you know drive one? She can go 2 and a half weeks without filling up. I go 2 days and have to fill. I drive as much in a week as she does in that 2.5 week period, but fill 3 times as often. And as for the cars, the Cobalt is cheaper than Camry and Corolla, but seeing as it replaced the Cavalier, which i currently drive, i wont get one. So im left with only a few choices. And as for whoever wrote that post as ‘toyota rules,’ grow up. I bet it was you Mr. Troll Windbag. And BTW Troll Windbag, why would i buy a car, fix it up, and then, oh i dont know, through wear and tear have to replace everything? if i have a brand new car i get the warranty, and the peace of mind that i dont have to work on it and take the time out of my busy schedule to anything to it? Whether you say its better to build it yourself or not, i think its in my best interest to have a commuter car. A muscle car and anything overly powerful is not for me. I dont need it.

April 3, 2007 at 11:24 pm
(921) Todd W says:

The whole green peace approach is just another distraction for ‘Toyota rules’ aka ‘The Aethiest’ because he can’t really side step the fact of how Toyota doesn’t belong in American stock car racing.

He started off praising Toyota in off road racing, and then shifted into emissions pollution. Another subject he knows little about. It’s just a desperate attempt to shift away from the obvious here…

Like the justification that Toyota should be eligible for the ranks of NASCAR because it had once dumped some obsolete V8 in a Japanese produced limousine overseas 30 yrs ago dubbed the Toyota Crown!

Or how he claimed to have a NASCAR spec 427 ‘in his barn’ — then posted a 427 he found on from the first google return on ’427′ in wikipedia. Sad part is, he couldn’t identify the obvious Thunderbird it was sitting in, and assumed it was a Mustang instead….This was sitting next to an ‘all original’ GT-350 Shelby — with a big block 390 Ford in it! That’s how clueless this individual is.

This person knows zero about the topic, so instead of entering into it, is trying to shift away from it with his latest ‘cars pollute the earth’ argument.

Fact!! — We actually allowed the Japanese to taint our own automotive lines back in the late fifties. While helping them build up their ‘empire’ after we flattened it — we allowed them to melt down the same radioactive steel from the buildings we annihilated, and sell it to us! Just so we could help their economy along. A lot of that steel found it’s way to our production lines and was high in iron content which is an oxidizer leading to rust out.

The myth about the low ‘quality’ of the American auto, actually started with the crap steel we bought from the Japanese just so they could become ‘a player’ on the global market again one day.

April 3, 2007 at 11:58 pm
(922) NE Man says:

Where are you getting you info? The ‘steel’ they melted down wouldve gone into your precious muscle cars if what youre saying is true. Where are your sources? You continue to give BS answers without support. Its pathetic. You say im talking nonsense, but what youre doing is not any better because you dont back it up with ANYTHING. Prove to me they sold us poor steel. PROVE IT. You cant because you reach from behind you and grab a steamy pile of ‘Troll Truth.’ Youre too easy Todd. You have no proof and so you think by having the longest posts you can convince everyone youre right. By yelling the loudest, no matter how far from the truth you are, you think your juvenile attempts to make you point will work. You will never convince me of your side that way. OH, and btw, GM didnt let Toyota look at their engines. Former GM engineers are now working with TRD. That was from your precious jayski.com. Oh and BTW, that was they only site you provided that wasnt EBAY. Great job there turbo.

April 4, 2007 at 12:01 am
(923) NE Man says:

Oh and i was just watching ABC News and it said GM is taking pointers on design from companies like Toyota. So its reciprocal TODD.

April 4, 2007 at 1:51 am

How would you know a corolla doesnt get 40 mpg?
Because on a business trip a few years back the stupid rental agency screwed up and I was forced to take a Corolla (for free)because they “gave” my Crown Victoria to somebody else, I drove that crappy noise bucket for a whole week and it got nowhere close 30 (maybe 25) in town, and about 35 HWY, I swore I would never drive a little car again, I have had a Focus in Las Vegas recently(not by my choice), granted I only had it for a weekend, but it is a better built car.
Wouldn’t you have pride in a car that has been restored from the ground up? I do, and drive my 1971 LTD Convertible 429-4V, at least 10,000 miles a year, so about 50% of my yearly miles are in a car that should have been “crushed” according to all you greenies. I love passin those Prius golf carts on the freeway!

April 4, 2007 at 6:34 am
(925) Todd W says:

NEMan writes — Where are you getting your info? The ’steel’ they melted down would’ve gone into your precious muscle cars if what you’re saying is true.

No, see ‘NEMan’ we bombed Japan in 1945 — my car is a 1970!!

That’s 25 years! Like I said, that steel went into a lot of LATE 50′s cars!! Desoto, Chrysler’s, etc.

Obviously you have no clue of when the ‘muscle car’ was even spawn — that’s how little you know about American auto’s (Not to mention NASCAR in general) — you know nothing! The muscle car boomed with the 64 GTO (all manufacturers followed suit with a big bore engine in a mid size body).

It could be argued that the muscle car was spawn in the 50′s with the Fury line beginning in 56 (or even earlier)– but the GTO of 64 is most credited as the first true ‘muscle car’.

…And my ‘sources’ are general knowledge. Post 1956 on the Chrysler line in particular — the cars were plagued buy ‘tinny’ steel from Japan. Ask anybody who has attempted to restore a late 50′s MoPar — I don’t need a google link NEMan — I’m a ‘car guy’ remember? Unlike yourself who hasn’t got time to lift open a hood, or wouldn’t even know what he’s looking at once underneath one.

You have no clue….And that much is obvious already.

You type out GM engineers helped Toyota design an American small block?

Go back to my post at #659 NEMan.

I have told you that almost 400 posts ago!!

Why do you think they have GM engineers hired to rip off an American designed engine?…That happens to be a carbon copy of the Chevrolet (GM) small block? Get your crap together! Your reinforcing my entire argument right there — Nothing on that NASCAR Camry has evolved from any other Jap manufacturer, and would be obsolete in any existing Jap auto because it’s American! General motors if you want to get technical. You should just quit because you know zero of what you ‘think’ you are arguing about.

Can’t believe you are still reading Jayski articles online…You can thank me for that btw. Because if I hadn’t linked you to there; you wouldn’t still have a clue about Toyota hiring GM engineers to rip off the Chevy small block. Wake up!!!

April 4, 2007 at 6:52 am
(926) Todd W says:

..And as far as me providing ‘EBAY’ links, I provided a scan of my car right when I yanked the original 396 out in 1998 remember? On post #905

I even have a better shot of the motor swap if your that interested. What have you provided? Hell, you can’t even talk shop when it comes to NASCAR in the first place!

April 4, 2007 at 6:57 am
(927) toyota rules says:

Fact: I started posting on this forum when it was fresh, and full of people who are full of themselves. Hench my very first posting: JEALOUS PEOPLE THESE DAYS…
Fact: I cannot talk about NASCAR and Toyota to any unintelligent life being. Therefore they get ignored.
Fact: Once a troll has been ignored, said troll has to revert to capuchin tactics in order to gain the attention of said person that shows them the respect they deserve.
Fact: I can talk NASCAR and Toyota to any intelligible person throughout and stay the course. However, the key here; said person must be capable of thought provoking and receiving intelligence.
Fallacy: “The whole green peace approach is just another distraction for ‘Toyota rules’ aka ‘The Aethiest’ because he can’t really side step the fact of how Toyota doesn’t belong in American stock car racing”.
Fact: I do not who these posters are. Nor do I really care, however, it is apparent they have left an everlasting mark on this individual.
Fact: He must be so paranoid, that anybody with an opinion other than his then transforms into worst nightmare. Get some therapy before you hurt yourself.
Fact: The amount of CO2 produced by some people on this forum far exceed those of my Toyota Yaris!
Fact: America is the home of the push rod V8.
Fact: Toyota produces DOHC V8s.
Fact: American push rod V8s are antiquated, pollution inducing, and not fuel efficient.
Fact: The only savior for the American pushrod V8 was the inception of HEI, EFI, and computer controlled emissions.
Fact: EFI, and computer controlled emissions were acquired from the free trade market.
Fact: DOHC power plants can produce more power in less displacement, all the while gaining superior emissions, and fuel economy.
Fact: You should be demanding that the American Big 2 produce more DOHC motors.
Fact: I can get a crate Toyota V8 motor, and mount it into any V8 capable Toyota truck, or Lexus automobile.

April 4, 2007 at 7:14 am
(928) Todd W says:

Let me try this now

FACT — It’s 4:27 am west coast time (I just got home a bit ago from staying till 2:30 at my local brew pub)

FACT — Nothing much to do at such an hour (so I responded in the ‘NASCAR blog’)

FACT — I posted at 6:52 central time

FACT — ‘Toyota rules’ posts five minutes later.

FACT — Toyota rules’ has no life whatsoever

April 4, 2007 at 7:26 am
(929) Todd W says:

Oh and btw ‘Toyota rules’

This comment right here –

Fact: DOHC power plants can produce more power in less displacement

That statement alone shows how ignorant you are. Take a look at any motor running to date in NASCAR, NHRA, and what do you see? SOHC V8′s.

We don’t see DOHC V8′s running in NHRA top fuel now do we? No, we see the evolved design of the MoPar hemi that was introduced way back in the early 1950′s.

Since DOHC is so much more capable, I wonder why an outfit like the NHRA (which is the epitome of performance when it comes to moving pounds of steel and rubber 1320 feet) — I wonder why they aren’t running DOHC engines?

Explain that one to us all please.

April 4, 2007 at 8:05 am
(930) Todd W says:


It’s been five minutes!!!!!!

We all know that you’re there chief.

Sorry, but you have used up your google time already ‘Aethiest’ …Or, Toyota rules’

Whoops, almost called you ‘Toyota rocks’ — You know, the last name you admitted to creating in the blog, when you got everything bass akwards when it game to simple things — Like telling a Thunderbird from a Mustang…And which engine was installed in the GT-350 Mustangs.

Here’s a good rule of thumb — If a sixties muscle car (especially a Mustang!) is dubbed ’350′ ….Chances are the displacement of the original engine isn’t going to be over that figure. For sure it isn’t going to have a ’390′ installed in it!

ha ha ha

Think fast — uhhhhh….Time for you to make up a new name!

; )

April 4, 2007 at 11:16 am
(931) MattC says:

Hey guys. It’s been a few days since I’ve posted anything on here. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s all a lost cause.

No matter what we all say, Todd will argue, all the while making no valid points. This means that he enjoys arguing with people on the internet more than working on that pride and joy car of his. I’ve said before that he’s all about the last word. It doesent have to make any sense, just having the last word makes him happy.

I sometimes enjoy arguing when we can make progress and come to some kind of understanding to the information being exchanged. However, Mr. W has shown us that there will be no progress made. With that said, I must leave you all with this:


April 4, 2007 at 12:16 pm
(932) Todd W says:

Geez Matt, didn’t you already make a farewell speech 200 posts ago?

#831 Matt writes –

“Well, it’s been nice posting here…I had a lot of fun seeing people get worked up over my comments”

But once you get ‘worked up’ — it’s time for farewell speeches again, and an ‘it’s not fair mentality’


…And since you’re leaving Matt, let’s remind the entire internet of this classic of yours from post #809

Matt writes –

“However, Todd I do admire your unwillingness to give up on the brands that have deserted you and everyone else. You’d probably take a bullet for GM”

Isn’t that one of those comments you enjoyed getting everybody worked up over Matt?

…And how asinine, and ignorant the entire comment is in itself. How could these brands have turned their backs on us Matt? Especially when it’s more than likely a General Motors tractor trailer that hauled your beloved play station to the store shelves so you could get your little game playing thumbs on it in the first place. I don’t see any long haul Toyota’s keeping this economy moving, do you Matt? I do see Detroit diesel, GMC White, Freightliner, and the rest of the American brands though.

How about those American rigs they’re at a frantic pace to reinforce with armor plating, and deflective undercarriages to get out into the middle east, so that American’s can return home with all of their limbs intact, if they do decide to drive around in the boring Camry’s? I don’t see any support from Toyota there where it really matters. Do you Matt? Those ‘American’ brands haven’t deserted anybody. In fact, it’s just the opposite. You are deserting them for supporting a Japanese company by rolling around in their drab sedans.

April 4, 2007 at 12:28 pm
(933) MattC says:

Keep it up Todd. You prove me right with every post. Make sure to get that last word in. Your posts outnumber everyone elses put together.

April 4, 2007 at 12:37 pm
(934) Todd W says:

You know, If you keep on posting Matt, you’re going to have to write another farewell speech….again!

Good job at addressing the points made in the post itself, your typical approach. When a point is raised; ignore it entirely. Lets talk about something you would know a lot about Matt –

So, how fast does your Toyota go on the play station Matt?

April 4, 2007 at 12:43 pm
(935) MattC says:

I’m sure most of the people on this message board are sick of seeing your name on it. Why don’t you write a farewell speech?

No, you just can’t give up arguing on the internet… You want to be the retard that comes in 1st.

April 4, 2007 at 12:59 pm
(936) Todd W says:

You don’t? Then why would you write this in post #899

Matt writes –

“Japan has a lot to do with America today, without Japan, you couldn’t play GTA on your PS2. I guess you could play Mario on your nintendo.”


GTA? That’s some sort of violent video game, where Matt gets to drive around in really fast cars, and blow things up…right? Let’s face it, not only do you own the thing considering a comment like that (using it as a legitimate example of some kind to justify how important Japan is to this country)

– that’s your little fantasy world (that Japan created just for you) — and in it, Matt gets to play the invincible ‘hero’ role whenever he plugs it in. Good for you Matt!

April 4, 2007 at 1:11 pm
(937) MattC says:

Todd this message board goes nowhere with you here. We can’t advance and talk about things that are important. You just want to fill it with BS. Nothing new here.

And yes, I did say that Japan has a lot to do with America today. Everything that’s modern has some sort of Japanese influence on it. Sorry to burst your bubble Todd. Because Japanese cars have DOHC engines instead of old and outdated pushrods, they are able to make more horsepower in a more efficient way.

Of course you’ll bring up for the 1000th time about getting a ‘crate motor’ and bolting on a supercharger to it and making it better. The question I ask is “Why should I have to get a crate motor? Why should I have to get a supercharger to make my car better? Why not just get a good vehicle that doesent NEED modification to compete?” I told you before that I drove a Nissan truck and you said about how it’s inferior to domestic trucks that are modified. True. Lets pair those trucks up STOCK sometime.

April 4, 2007 at 1:13 pm
(938) MattC says:

None of the other brands except for Toyota offer a midsize pickup truck with full underbody protection and locking rear differential.

April 4, 2007 at 1:21 pm
(939) MattC says:

I come to this message board to show my support for Toyota being in NASCAR. They deserve to be there. I personally don’t own a Toyota but my father drove an ’89 toyota pickup for 17 years and the only thing he replaced on it was a tail light. That’s pretty damn good. He didn’t have to put a supercharger on because the motor got tired. He sold it a few weeks ago for $1500. Todd, you couldnt sell your soul for $1500! My dad now drives a Tundra which he is very happy with. He could have bought a domestic brand for much less but then, he’d have trouble getting rid of it down the road because nobody wants them anymore.

April 4, 2007 at 1:44 pm
(940) MattC says:

Fact: The H2 is the last vehicle I’d ever buy because it’s just a fancied up tahoe. If anything, I’d buy a real military humvee from an auction or something.
Fallacy: stay in retirement??? I’m 21 dude. Retirement is a long way down the road.

April 4, 2007 at 1:53 pm
(941) MattC says:

Actually, I’d be willing to bet that you and ToddW are the same person… You have the uncanny ability to take comments out of context like he does.

April 4, 2007 at 1:58 pm

Good point Matt.

April 4, 2007 at 2:38 pm
(943) Todd W says:

Well said Covington

….as for the Vega comment — no, it’s a Chevelle– just like I posted….twice!!

Is the Vega comment supposed be taken as a jab on mine (or anybody’s) behalf?

I actually have seen small block Vega’s that would snap your neck (hell I wouldn’t mind having one come to think about it)

Ever hear of Bill Jenkin’s?

(add http: to this link)


See that Vega? That would snap your neck.

Wise up.

April 4, 2007 at 2:39 pm
(944) MattC says:

Mr. W. COVINGTON, I’m glad to hear that your family’s brand served them well. My old man bought domestics too. I guess he had bad luck with them. He never had a truck that lasted him like his 89 pickup. After that, he decided he’d never buy domestic again. I remember growing up as a kid the trucks he’s had. An old dodge with a slant 6… He said it was a good truck but he felt it was too heavy for the powerplant, had trouble towing our boat up hills. He also had a 2 wheel drive S-10 that drove like a car. It was worthless in the snow. So he lucked into a good buy with his first Toyota. I decided to buy a Japanese brand based on his luck with domestic trucks. I don’t feel bad about my choice, and I don’t feel any less of an American because I drive a Japanese brand.

April 4, 2007 at 2:49 pm


I am not Todd W, Which should have been obvious as I belive he likes GM products and I prefer Ford. Don’t get me wrong I do own both Chevrolet and Ford, both are superior to the Importimposters.
I have never changed my Post Name, unlike others that need a new soapbox, mine comes from america made of real wood, not pressed rice cardboard. LOL Oh and you are only a kid if you are 21 which 12 is more like it. Go play your videogames and get your Antiamerican nose out of NASCAR. Support America or get the hell out. Thank You Mr.Covington USMC for all that you do, You are a great American, because if it weren’t people like you I would not have the freedom to tell these IMPORT MORONS that they are Ruining America!

April 4, 2007 at 2:58 pm

Question is not weather you “feel” less of an American because you like imports.
The Fact is you ARE less of an American!

April 4, 2007 at 3:18 pm
(947) Todd W says:

Well don’t get that irate Matt

…Next thing we know we will all be reading one of your teary farewell speeches again. : (

As for my TV, it’s a domestic brand.

I don’t have (or want) a cell phone, because I don’t want to be seen as one of those morons that piss everybody off in traffic gabbing away when they should be driving!

Unlike yourself, I don’t own the all important playstation either Matt.

Fact is, if I’m going to lay cash down for anything, if I have the option; I buy domestic.

That’s what the big difference is between me and you Matt.

April 4, 2007 at 3:26 pm
(948) Todd W says:

Looks like Steve’s on the ball again

Due to the hateful content of Matt’s recent postings, they have been removed. I’m sure Matt will be allowed to contribute more to the discussions when he can act like more of an adult here in the blog.

April 4, 2007 at 3:31 pm
(949) MattC says:

ToddW had immunity because he likes to kiss up to the moderator of the message board.

April 4, 2007 at 3:39 pm
(950) MattC says:

Steve McCormick… If you’re reading this, I’d just like to ask: “Does Toyota ruin NASCAR for you?” If it doesent, then I don’t understand why some of my posts are getting removed from the message board. They aren’t that vulgar… If Toyota does ruin NASCAR for you, then I don’t blame you for deleting my posts.

April 4, 2007 at 3:41 pm
(951) Todd W says:

….And nothing wrong with direct from the factory Matt. When it comes to auto’s like mine, people go to great lengths to keep the vehicle entirely stock. Talk about re sale value of domestics — I don’t see any ‘stock’ Toyota’s hitting the auction block for over a million dollars….do you Matt?

I have seen a few 1970 Plymouths though, go figure? Over a million dollars! Gee, you don’t think this new wave of domestics (some holding the exact same model names, Challenger, Camaro, etc.) — could escalate into a better investment than any foreign rig do ya Matt?

Funny, I can’t picture any Supra’s going for millions of dollars years from now. That new Challenger with the soon to be ‘reintroduced’ 392 hemi under the hood? With 500 plus horse? Yeah, I could see that.

April 4, 2007 at 3:55 pm
(952) Steve McCormick says:

I delete comments that include name calling, foul language, or are utterly pointless. Plus the spam filter picks up almost anything with a link in it.

I have deleted many (hundreds?) of posts from this thread, including many of ToddWs posts. I believe Todd, for the most part, learned his lesson a couple hundred posts ago and I need to delete fewer of his posts than I used to.

Personally, I choose not to root for a Toyota team but I’m glad they are here. NASCAR is more fun when there is a villain.

Overall, I don’t care what your opinion is. I do care that you do it without using foul language, name calling or personal attacks.

April 4, 2007 at 4:02 pm
(953) MattC says:

Thanks Steve for your answer. That cleared a lot up. I’ll try to tone it down a little and try not to hurt ToddW’s or anybody elses’s feelings.

April 4, 2007 at 4:46 pm
(954) Todd W says:

Only a villain would steal somebody’s innovations, and then attempt to use them in order to compete against them. All in an attempt to deceive others into believing they are equally as innovative.

There’s a word for that, it’s called infringement. Or as in this case, deception on top of it. What’s really surprising is the lack of Toyota supporters for these last 500 posts. I count two, maybe three total. The third obviously masked behind various identities in the blog.

Regardless, I think that demonstrates a clear indicator of how much fan support is actually out there for Toyota embarking on such an endeavor, as to attempt to blend into traditional ‘American’ stock car racing. Honestly, I think it does more harm for Toyota in the publics perception than it does good. (Wether they win or lose come Sunday)

I really think they misjudged how ‘American’ they really are perceived as being here on this continent. As well as hurting Toyota, it has drawn a lot of criticism to NASCAR itself (mainly the decision makers). If those ‘big 3′ started withdrawing factory sponsorship from NASCAR, and the void was left open to be filled by Honda, etc — NASCAR would fold soon afterwards.

I think the majority of fans see Toyota’s bid for the spotlight in American stock car racing as exactly what it seems — arrogant. Toyota isn’t competing with those domestics every Sunday; it’s attempting to mimic them….And that doesn’t sit to well with a lot of people. Some things are by default just in an entirely separate class. It’s like a middle weight prize fighter attempting to compete with a heavyweight by adding protective gear to achieve heavyweight status. It’s competing in a non legitimate fashion just to share in the spotlight with your competitor. A loser move no matter what the outcome, and more importantly as ‘un-American’ as you can possibly get.

April 4, 2007 at 6:27 pm
(955) Dustin says:

Nextel strated the downfall of Nascar,Toyota finished it!!!!!!

April 4, 2007 at 6:29 pm
(956) Dustin says:

Nextel started the downfall of Nascar,Toyota finished it!!!!!!

April 5, 2007 at 12:48 am
(957) Brainmatter says:

Here are the secrets ALL foriegn brands try to keep. Pensions, health care, wages, and the lot are not nearly as good as the ‘big 3 (2?). They have different contracts with the unions. No, I am not a fan of unions,(the unions are now part of the problem because we can’t compete with the different rules for import brand cotracts) that is just a fact. Toyota is on par to recall more vehicles this year than all domestics combined. The profits from those Toyotas built here goes to Japan. Pure and simple. Those record profits are made on the backs of U.S. laborers. Ask yourself these questions: 1. If there were no import brands, would people still buy just as many cars? If you think “no ’cause us cars are crap” you are insane. Of course we would buy just as many cars. 2. Who would build all these cars? Ahh.. Duh! U.S. companies with U.S. employees. If you buy into the illusion that they would build them all in Mexico and Canada, you are also insane. 3. Where would all the profits go? Here, the U.S. to your children. Ford is huge in Europe, making cars for the European market in European factories. Was it good for the U.K. that Ford pretty much supplanted all domestic (UK) car makers? (The U.K. no longer has a british owned and built mainstream vehicle, NOT ONE)Even though Ford pays British workers to build Jaguars, Astons, etc? (the Aston deal is not complete quite yet.) Hell no, why? because all the profits come back here to the U.S. where it benefits us. Good for us, bad for the U.K. This is the exact same scenario. And we are choosing it. If we bought american, GM and Ford would build more cars, reopen U.S. plants, and provide the excellent jobs that they always did in the past. The import brands pay as little as they can, provide as little as they can to employees, and take the check to thier home country. They are just better at brainwashing you to make you believe they are providing you a service. I’ve never seen a $1,500 routine 30,000 or 60,000 (timing belt, valve adjustment)mile service on a Taurus or Impala, but lots and lots on Camrys. Go lemmings, go!

April 5, 2007 at 5:01 am
(958) Todd W says:

I agree about the short tracks 100 percent. (and with brainmatter’s comments too for that matter).

Just to clarify, on post 1028 (the neck snapping comment about the Vega wasn’t directed towards Covington)
That was directed to the same individual using multiple I.D’s in the blog, one being ‘MORONToddDRIVEIMPORTS’

This person for whatever reason thought the idea of a small block Vega was an insult to somebody somehow. Obviously they have no clue that Vega’s can be setup to run down anything in a quarter mile. I’ve seen Pinto’s, and Gremlin’s that are just as nasty quick. The performance oriented ‘compact’ — it was done years before the Civic kids. By the way, ‘Me’ or ‘Todd’ doesn’t drive imports — Todd posted (out of everyone in this blog) — what he drives. Acknowledge that, and at least show some taste.

BTW Matt, here was my last mid size truck that I sold.

(Add http: to the link)


I got double what I paid for it. I installed that ‘one off’ scoop sitting on the roof, then crammed in a Pete Jackson gear drive. Everyone that seen that truck coming, their eyeballs popped out because when they seen that scoop, and heard that whine they instantly thought ‘blower’

ha ha ha

I didn’t even have to advertise the thing. I had offers stacked up before I even sold it. I honestly lost track of how many fairly new ‘imports’ I was offered in trade — no thanks!


The problem with NASCAR is that it has no direct competition other than football. I say revive a sanctioning body like the USAC (United States auto club)

If NASCAR want’s to sacrifice all of these things to appeal to casual race fans, let it head down that road. It would be nice to see an entirely separate series that still holds on to the basics of traditional stock car racing. Give them the tube chassis, and similar layout as far as suspensions, and rear ends go.

Eliminate the ‘one off’ hand fabricated bodies, and move back to production line templates. (sheet metal supplied directly from the manufacturer)

The cars must be of a rear wheel drive model directly from the assembly line. Camaro, Challenger, Mustang — essentially moving from mid size sedans into the ‘pony cars’ (because those are the only domestics that really fit into a performance type platform for the average buyer across the board these days.) If Toyota wants to compete, fine with me. But in order to compete, they will have to create an auto in the same class as the above mentioned autos…And run a true (SOHC) production designed V8 that can be traced back to it’s own assembly lines. Race what you assemble, or don’t show up. Simple as that.

Cast iron blocks with aluminum heads

Ford: 4.6 liter modular V8
Chevy: 5.7 LT-1
MoPar: 5.7 hemi

All engines are available in SOHC and can be retrofitted with carb and intake. If a manufacturer wants to run a past design (say Ford wanted to use their previous 5 liter design) — then they must offer that engine as an option on their assembly line. All engines would meet an approved spec for level and even competition. If such a series were to emerge, we would see NASCAR undergoing a complete overhaul practically overnight. At that point though, it would be too late. They would be stuck with Toyota’s and Honda’s running American parts, with bodies that resemble nothing on any assemble line foreign or domestic. Without the domestics in their ranks, attendance would plummet. A lot of those who make NASCAR what it is now would jump ship. NASCAR would simply fade away into one of the biggest blunders in motor sports history. It’s already on that path with things like ‘chase for the cup’, the restrictor plates, the ‘car of tomorrow’, and even worse; allowing bogus Toyota’s to hang their name on long established, domestic performance parts.

April 5, 2007 at 11:36 am

Hey, Todd great idea, by 2009 production year you clould buy a mustang with the 24V 5.4 or 30V V10. sign me up! I would like to see that in craftsman truck series too, three classes 4.6FMC, 4.7DC, 4.8GM, and then “Med block” 5.4 5.7 5.3, big block
6.8 5.7 6.0 or 8.1 that would be real racing!

MORONToddWDRIVESIMPORT, this half @$$ed copy of me really needs to get a life, you know, Toy Boy you get mad when somebody supposedly steals your name. PLEASE dont copy mine!

April 5, 2007 at 12:38 pm
(960) Todd W says:

I’m surprised we haven’t been hammered with another EPA ‘fact finding’ report yet….Of how domestic auto’s with V8′s are strangling us all to death here on the earth. Funny thing is, way back in 1970 the EPA put out a request to any and all, who could supply them with a vehicle to conduct early goof ball tests in. For example, they needed a ‘chase’ vehicle capable of running alongside Boeing aircraft, all while one of the ‘suits’ riding shotgun leaned out the window at 100 plus mph with a hokey ‘apparatus’ connected to EPA equipment rigged up in the back seat…Just to record the amount of pollution expended on the tarmac!

Who do they hire on to supply them with such a vehicle? A stock car engineer! (Ray Nichel’s if any of you ‘NASCAR fans’ are familiar)

The very first ‘official’ test car of the Environmental Protection Agency was?…Why a 1970 Plymouth Superbird of course, with the 440 ‘Super Commando’ under the hood! They put ten thousand miles on the car, only after they decided the tests themselves just weren’t ‘feasible’

ha ha ha

April 5, 2007 at 6:55 pm
(961) Dustin says:

In response to 1042 I totaly agree on the local track bit. No Camry could survive a place like Eldora!!

April 5, 2007 at 8:49 pm
(962) T0dd W says:

The Toyota’s can’t even qualify for whatever reason. Think about it. Toyota’s got millions to pour into NASCAR, they currently have the best engine (even though it’s a rip off). What it boils down to is Toyota feeding every ounce of info on the competitors engines (GM’s in particular) — into a huge database to study it. In effect, to not only copy it, but attempt to even improve upon it; head designs, all of the clearances, water jacket design, hell everything!

Unlike it’s domestic rivals, it didn’t have the burden of being held to it’s own design. They gave Toyota a completely clean slate to work from (in the 21′st century!). To not only copy the domestic engines, but attempt to improve upon the complete design in the process! The domestics have to bend over backwards just in order to get NASCAR to approve a minor update in a cylinder head design, never mind presenting them with an entirely new block — one in where they are free to get as creative as they wish!

Even worse, Toyota isn’t employing it’s own engineers to create their copy of a domestic engine — Their employing domestic engineers to do that!

Yet they can’t even qualify on Sunday! — with veteran drivers, like 2 time Daytona winner Michael Waltrip, Mayfield, etc. These might not be the ‘top’ drivers — but they have proven they can qualify a race car. You don’t think Waltrip is driving as hard as he can — when he’s not only the driver, but team owner this season? I read where Waltrip commented something to this effect following the Daytona scandal –

“I’m still investigating to see who supplied the fuel additive to the my car”

And what in the ‘flower’ was going on there in the first place? You supposedly have the most advanced engine in the group, yet somehow somebody is going to the great extent to soak and cure a fuel filter element in some sort of chemical agent? Considering Toyota’s hell bent determination just to get one of it’s models into NASCAR (and accepted for that matter) — You don’t think Toyota would have anything to do with tampering with the fuel system in it’s star drivers engine do you? Right before the most watched NASCAR event of the season (The one and only ‘Great American race’ at Daytona beach)??? The same engine they bought off former GM employees to duplicate, and hopefully improve upon while they’re at it???

Nahh, couldn’t be. It’s not like Japan has ever done anything sneaky to the United States when we had our backs turned now is it?

Makes a person wonder just how superior the Japanese (and their copied race engine) really are. Especially considering the fact that they should be qualifying up front with it on any given Sunday. At the rate their going, the Toyota’s are going to have to qualify for every race! The top 35 in standings are guaranteed a spot come Sunday (no Toyota’s are within the top 35 last I checked) — So they have to keep qualifying, and from what we have seen so far — qualifying in the back, and not even being able to race on Sunday. Toyota hasn’t just fallen into a ‘slump’ — They have been a complete failure with the stock cars from the on set.

April 5, 2007 at 10:20 pm
(963) NE Man says:

Todd, if Toyota did in fact copy the engine, wouldnt they be doing better in the races? AND if they keep doing so badly, why do you want them out so much? If they arent hurting the American teams, then why boot them? Is it because youre afraid theyll develope their own engine, if that really isnt their engine they use now, and beat the American teams? It all comes down to your comfort zone, which has been made clear from the get go. You have no comfort zone. Your plagarized posts and nonsense about this and that show how insignificant you and your arguments are. I say let them race. If they dont qualify, they dont qualify. OR maybe they should switch to those engines of the future and give those American teams a run for their money. Oh and another thing, isnt having them in there bringing more revenue to NASCAR even if they lose? It keeps your precious little sport afloat… not saying Toyota alone, but ti helps. I had to add that last part in because i know how Todd likes to twist things around.

April 6, 2007 at 7:40 am
(964) Todd W says:

That’s pretty desperate right there. You are such a failure at discussing this topic, that you have to resort to not only creating multiple ID’s in here (plus admitting to that)….But then shift to posting as those who derailed your arguments some 500 posts ago?

What do you think McCormick? Think we can do without ‘that’ much stupidity in the blog? For everybody’s sake, I’m hoping so. Next thing we know this person will attempt to post as ‘Steve McCormick’…but forget to space the name out of course : )

Sort of ironic how this Toyota suporter ‘Aethiest’, ‘Toyota rocks’, ‘Toyota rules’ and so forth… Has attempted to argue against Toyota copying an engne design, when this person is copying blog identities in an attempt to sidetrack the blog itself. Calling Steve McCormick, clean up on posts #1059 through #1054 with the exception of ‘NEMan’ on #1050 (he’s even screwing it up for those who I’m debating with!)

Overlooking the sidetrack, NEMan writes –

“If Toyota did copy the engines, wouldn’t they be doing much better in the races?”

– That’s the question I was raising myself NEMan. Point being, it’s quite possible that not only are they a failure with the engine; they are a failure at attempting to copy, and improve upon it in the first place. Mayfield had a plug come loose at Daytona, when’s the last time you have heard one of the domestic teams drop out due to a loose plug? The sb Chevrolet (the most winningest engine in history) is pretty close to a ‘perfect’ design. Why do you think the core layout of it (introduced 52 years ago now!) is still being used today? Why do you think Toyota chose to make their engine based off of that engine as opposed to the Ford engine for example? GM has produced 200 million of those engines, Toyota a handful just to compete in NASCAR. Good chance that Toyota’s copy incorporates various flaws due to them rushing to copy the motor in record time….Just so they could compete in NASCAR.

NEMan writes –

“If they aren’t hurting American teams then why boot them? Is it because you think they will develop their own engine, if that really isn’t their engine they use now?”

– NEMan, lets just take a look at the facts okay? Normally when a product is viewed as ‘theirs’ or ‘the companies” — That company assembles it for distribution. I don’t care if where talking refrigerator’s, cars, or even coffee pots. it should tie right into the core of the company itself i.e. the production lines.

Each of those domestics can trace their engines to their own assembly lines at one point in time –Toyota can’t.

Each of the domestics will sell you one of ‘their’ engines — Toyota won’t.

Each of the domestics have produced a vehicle those engines are compatible with — Toyota’s engine is obsolete to any vehicle it has ever produced.

Now considering that, is it really a fair assessment to conclude that it’s ‘their’ engine? Common sense would tell anybody that considering it all — that engine isn’t Toyota. Hence; not ‘their’ engine.

NEMan writes –

“Or maybe they should switch to those engines of the future so Toyota can give the American teams a run for their money”

What ‘engine of the future’ NEMan? You know how many engines ‘of the future’ are out there in reality? — zero! That’s a concept…a mold hasn’t even been poured yet! Plus when they do get around to casting the ‘engine of the future’ which assembly lines do you think it’s design will trace back to? Japanese assembly lines? I don’t think so!

April 6, 2007 at 8:57 am
(965) Todd W says:

You have to hand it to those who still make NASCAR what it is. Not the dictators in the sky box; the guys at ground level, the tech inspectors, engineers, etc. What baffles me is the desperate attempt at cheating on Toyota’s behalf. Whoever was behind the curtain at ‘TRD’ responsible for tampering with the fuel, greatly underestimated those guys at ‘ground level’ — Much in the same way that the Toyota corporation underestimated the average NASCAR fan, believing that automatically they’re viewed as ‘American enough’ to just slide right into NASCAR based on domestic import sales alone.

Going back to one more comment from NEMan,

NEMan writes — “Why boot them?”

Simple NEMan — because they are not a legitimate competitor! Nextel cup is the top of the ladder when it comes to all forms of domestic oval track racing; The highest level. No foreign outfit should be able to just jump into that for whatever reason because they want more attention. Lets face it, that’s the only reason Toyota is in the NASCAR…It’s to make their product appeal to the average domestic buyer first and foremost. They could care less about the sport itself.

Honestly, I would like to see Toyota in NASCAR, only lets make it a legitimate Toyota competing. How’s that? If they want to join the ranks at the highest level, they should have to demonstrate they are legitimate way before hand. Use their own engineers to design a unique push rod SOHC engine, introduce it into their assembly lines. At least offer it as an option, even if the model itself is of limited production, and a failure. The domestics did that, and years ago on top of it all. Remember the 426 hemi?, the Daytona’s and Superbirds? Chevrolet’s Mark V big block?

Toyota’s block could be retrofitted with a carb, approved intake, and bored to NASCAR spec. Problem is, they don’t want to go that route, they just want in now! Toyota should be booted simply because they have no problem whatsoever ripping off domestic engines on a race track, but when it comes to their assembly lines it’s another story. That would cut into what’s really driving Toyota to enter NASCAR in the first place; cashing in even more on the misguided American public. The big wigs at NASCAR have disgraced not only their own sport, but patriotism for even allowing such a move to occur in the first place.

April 6, 2007 at 9:20 am
(966) Todd W says:

You have to hand it to those who still make NASCAR what it is. Not the dictators in the sky box; the guys at ground level, the tech inspectors, engineers, etc. What baffles me is the desperate attempt at cheating on Toyota’s behalf. Whoever was behind the curtain at ‘TRD’ responsible for tampering with the fuel, greatly underestimated those guys at ‘ground level’ — Much in the same way that the Toyota corporation underestimated the average NASCAR fan, believing that automatically they’re viewed as ‘American enough’ to just slide right into NASCAR based on domestic import sales alone.

Going back to one more comment from NEMan,

NEMan writes — “Why boot them?”

Simple NEMan — because they are not a legitimate competitor! Nextel cup is the top of the ladder when it comes to all forms of domestic oval track racing; The highest level. No foreign outfit should be able to just jump into that for whatever reason because they want more attention. Lets face it, that’s the only reason Toyota is in the NASCAR…It’s to make their product appeal to the average domestic buyer first and foremost. They could care less about the sport itself.

Honestly, I would like to see Toyota in NASCAR, only lets make it a legitimate Toyota competing. How’s that? If they want to join the ranks at the highest level, they should have to demonstrate they are legitimate way before hand. Use their own engineers to design a unique push rod SOHC engine, introduce it into their assembly lines. At least offer it as an option, even if the model itself is of limited production, and a failure. The domestics did that, and years ago on top of it all. Remember the 426 hemi?, the Daytona’s and Superbirds? Chevrolet’s Mark V big block?

Toyota’s block could be retrofitted with a carb, approved intake, and bored to NASCAR spec. Problem is, they don’t want to go that route, they just want in now! Toyota should be booted simply because they have no problem whatsoever ripping off domestic engines on a race track, but when it comes to their assembly lines it’s another story. That would cut into what’s really driving Toyota to enter NASCAR in the first place; cashing in even more on the misguided American public. The big wigs at NASCAR have disgraced not only their own sport, but patriotism for even allowing such a move to occur in the first place.

Oh and btw…To those of you Japanese supporters out there that claim the muscle car is outdated, and a past accomplishment of Detroit. Guess who just took best of show at the New York auto show? Here’s a hint — It wasn’t an import…..It was an ‘American’ muscle car literally. The new Shelby Mustang KR, complete with small block and supercharger. Compare it to the boxy Subaru, which still looks like a dreary compact disguised as a performance car.

April 6, 2007 at 6:44 pm
(967) NE Man says:

Ok, so todd, what youre saying is you dont have any proof that the engine isnt theirs? Seriously, give me a link to a legitimate website and show me. As for selling the engines Toyota uses to race with, why should they if the demand isnt there for it? How many people have you heard of that want a powerful Toyota? Noone. People buy Toyota for the fuel economy. Simple as that. But ill give you one thing, they should not have tried to tamper with the fuel. That was a bad move on their part and if they do it again i think they should be removed from NASCAR, but if the same happens for the Americans, they should be removed. Use Toyotas first warning as a warning to everyone else. And i posted the link for it. Its from jayski.com or whatever it was that you posted. It said they were going to try to impliment them in 2009. So dont write me off as a lunitic. You just dont pay attention.

April 6, 2007 at 7:33 pm
(968) Todd W says:

Back to NEMan with this –

“what your saying is you don’t have proof that their engine isn’t theirs?”

NEMan it isn’t that complicated really. Do you need proof that a triangle isn’t a square? No you don’t; you can tell just by looking at it! Lets make it even more simple for you to understand. NASCAR mandates that each car run a conventional, SOHC, push rod V8 of domestic design. By default this excludes Toyota, because number one — Nothing designed by Toyota is of domestic origin…

And number two — Toyota (an automobile manufacturer) has never adapted to this design, let alone offered it as ‘their’ product, in ‘their’ assembly lines. Simple as that (a non argument really)

When the Ford GT40 competed (and dominated) at LeMans in the mid sixties, they (emphasis on they, as in ‘their’) raced with ‘their’ own product. Which engine design could be traced right back to ‘their’ own assembly lines. Can you imagine if Ford had entered into LeMans with a direct copy of the European engines? Like Toyota’s attempt at NASCAR right now, such a move would have instantly been looked upon for what it obviously is — desperate!

NEMan writes –

“As for selling the engines Toyota uses to race with, why should they if the demand isn’t there for it? How many people have you heard of that want a powerful Toyota?”

The answer to that is simple NEMan, and ties right into my last comment. There is no demand for it because it is obsolete in any past or present vehicle introduced by the Toyota corporation.
…And why is that? Because it is of a domestic as opposed to a foreign design! How hard is it to comprehend the obvious here…Really?

As for Jayski posting about ‘the engine of the future’ — They could say they are going to implement it next week if they wanted to…So what? That’s just a claim. Where is it? They haven’t even cast an early prototype yet!

April 6, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(969) Toyota Fanatic says:

For anybody that might question the engine, they might want to know this first!

“Because Toyota had to build a brand new engine that would allow it to compete in the Craftsman Truck Series, the manufacturer had the luxury of working with a clean sheet of paper. And despite working within NASCAR rules, Toyota engineers produced an engine that potentially gives the manufacturer a competitive edge.

Without getting lost in pages of technical jargon, the bottom line is that Toyota designed an engine that was lighter, stronger and potentially able to produce more power than anything that the other three either are currently using or were planning to build.

Using their very successful Toyota Tundras program as laboratories on wheels, Toyota engineers could examine hours of data on the performance of their truck engine and then incorporate it into their upcoming Nextel Cup engine”.

April 6, 2007 at 10:42 pm
(970) Todd W says:

To Toyota fanatic –

Not that we would want anybody to get lost in technical ‘jargon’ — but lets recap here

Toyota Fanatic writes –

“Because Toyota had to build a brand new engine…”

Could you point out what is ‘new’ regarding the engine? The design of the thing dates back to when Eisenhower was in office….and lets get just a tad bit technical (after all we’re discussing NASCAR here)
When we take a look at the bottom end, each of the engines are virtually the same. Same bore and stroke, etc. The only real area of focus is in the top end (cylinder head design, cam shaft, save for a few variables like lubrication system, etc) Core difference being the domestic engines evolved from domestic production lines. They weren’t just drawn up for NASCAR in the twenty-first century. (until March that is) The Toyota engine is a direct copy of this design, and not a new engine by any means.

The only thing Toyota did design was the fuel pump (which is of an age old ‘American’ mechanical design when it comes right down to it) — and no great feat whatsoever. A simple pump which is driven from an ‘eccentric’ on the crank shaft (or in ‘non jargon’ terms — a simple steel rod). I yanked the mechanical pump from my engine (threw the steel rod away) — bolted on a block off plate, and hooked up an ‘American’ electric pump instead. That’s how critical of a component it is to give you some general perspective of it.

Toyota fanatic writes —

“Toyota produced an engine that is lighter, stronger, and potentially able to produce more power than anything that the other three either currently using or planning to build”

Sorry, but that statement is completely false. First to the ‘lighter’ comment. How do you think Toyota was able to build a lighter block? Simple, with a clean slate to work from, they simply compared it to the other engines and shaved weight from it. As for stronger, and having the ability to produce more power — it doesn’t look that way out on the track, or in qualifying now does it?

As for the latter half of that comment (about being superior to any other engine on the track, or the competition not ‘planning to build’) — In March Chevrolet just introduced the small block ‘R07′ due in large part to Toyota’s copy and perfect approach. It was under the Chevy hoods last Sunday! What it is in effect, is the engine Toyota was aiming for when setting out to copy, and perfect the design. This engine is so superior to the Toyota’s that NASCAR mandated that Chevrolet share the cylinder head design with Toyota — just to save them from having to play guess work with their own ‘domestic’ engine to keep up! Chevrolets have already won 5 of the 6 races total this season, including Daytona!

Here’s the real difference between Chevrolet (a domestic competitor) and Toyota —

“The R07 displaces a maximum of 358 cubic inches. In contrast to the SB2′s (The engine Toyota drafted from) “mirror port” cylinder heads, the R07′s cylinder heads resemble production LS-series small-block cylinder heads with alternating intake and exhaust valves. While production small-block V-8 engines employ electronic fuel injection, the R07 port layout is optimized for the single four-barrel carburetor mandated by NASCAR.”

– The engine (and components) trace right back to domestic assembly lines; that’s the real difference.

April 6, 2007 at 11:42 pm
(971) Toyota Fanatic says:

To Todd W-

In post 1055, you referenced: “As for Jayski posting about ‘the engine of the future’ — They could say they are going to implement it next week if they wanted to…So what? That’s just a claim. Where is it? They haven’t even cast an early prototype yet!”

And then just four posts later, in post #1059, you reference: ““The R07 displaces a maximum of 358 cubic inches. In contrast to the SB2’s (The engine Toyota drafted from) “mirror port” cylinder heads, the R07’s cylinder heads resemble production LS-series small-block cylinder heads with alternating intake and exhaust valves. While production small-block V-8 engines employ electronic fuel injection, the R07 port layout is optimized for the single four-barrel carburetor mandated by NASCAR.”

Which is, hello, the Toyota designed and built EOT! However, GM has their version designation as the RO7.

But why would you be concerned? You just said they didn’t even have a prototype!

April 7, 2007 at 12:51 am
(972) toyota rules says:

Morning all.
Fact: I love my job.
Fact: Left out early Wednesday morning headed to Brazil to review and update “Green-House” effects from their ethanol project.
Fact: Keep an eye on the news, as things will surely be changing in the future.
Fact: I see ToddW still has multiple issues on here.
Fact: Back in the “green” zone. It appears that in Brazil a lot less deforestation has transpired from thought to be ethanol pirates and the like. However, they did fill in and destroy irreplaceable wet marshes, destroying with it several 100 exotic bird species.
Fact: NASACR has made the switch to unleaded this year.
Fact: NASCAR has been challenged to examine and review ethanol for future fuels.
Fallacy: Somebody here seems to think I spend as much time here as they do.
Fact: I spend maybe 12 minutes before work, or on break here and occasionally some time in the evenings or weekends when kept indoors.
Fallacy: Somebody here thinks I have a need to change ids.
Fact: I still have the same one from over 1,000 postings ago.
Fact: Notice how a certain somebody has to change the subject when they are placed into an intelligible environment? Interesting how we went from NASCAR to what was it? Due to an engine design?

Well anyhow, nice two and 1/2 day trip. Report findings are due Monday, so will be pre-occupied this weekend in finalizing said reports. And, no race for the fledgling Toyota crews. They should use their time wisely and prepare to actually qualify all cars, then maybe work on getting into the top 20.

However, they should expend less CO2 than our favorite poster!

Remember to use your googles often, and continuous, I have several thousand lucrative shares of that as well.

Fact: Between “Anheuser Busch, Oscar Myer, Toyota N.America, GM, Microsoft, Dell, Sony, and google” I will be able to retire in 25years at the ripe age of 50. You can help me by continuing to buy computers, drinking beer whilst eating hot dogs, driving chevys and toys, and using google!

April 7, 2007 at 1:30 am
(973) toyota rules says:

Snap: Todd W;
Snap: Where are you?
Snap: Still googling about the DOHC search?
Snap: What, NE Man got you stumped as well?
Snap: Times up. ;)

Fact: DOHC as designed by Toyota was ruled out by NASCAR. Too much power to lighter weight ratio. Better fuel performance. More moving parts. Less prone to destruction.
All of which lead NASCAR to say NO, this would give you would have the advantage, and we just can’t allow that!

Why not DOHC in that other sport? Because it’s only a small following, low profile, low visibility competition. Not enough for anybody but the good ol’ boys to race their. They may produce many pounds of CO2, but they only run for seconds at a time. A DOHC would not be as quick to disassemble and rebuild after every run. Thou, they probably could make two runs without a tear down! Would be interesting to see a sub 3 liter DOHC screaming @ close to 20K RPM, running against a 7+L HEMI!

Could your 6-71 supercharger handle that many RPM’s? Doubt it! So it would be a blown hemi against a fuel injected DOHC, would be interesting!

April 7, 2007 at 8:52 am
(974) Todd W says:

First to this about DOHC –

“More moving parts. Less prone to destruction.”

In fact, it’s just the opposite my friend. That’s (what’s the word I’m looking for?) — a no brainier! : )

Back to Toyota Fanatic –

‘Fanatic’ neither of those engines are your ‘engine of the future’. See, supposedly the whole purpose behind the ‘engine of the future’ is to create an engine that is identical for each participant in NASCAR. Just like the ‘car of tomorrow’ where the bodies are virtually identical. This means no more ‘Cleveland’ design in the Ford cylinder head, and so forth. Each engine will be identical as in the IROC series which are all Chevrolet’s. NASCAR is far from introducing such an engine, that’s why this ‘futuristic’ engine idea was pushed forward now until 2009….Hello???

April 7, 2007 at 10:06 am
(975) Toyota Fanatic says:

2009 eh?
Then why has Hendricks motorsports built 3 of them, and Jeff Gordon put at least 500 miles on one for a single durability test?

There are others as well, but might present a bit of a problem to research if you do not believe in it.

“Jeff Gordon tested the engine during a tire test at Darlington last month, where Gordon ran 500 laps with no issues”.

“”We feel confident going in there that we’re going to have a really good piece,” said Grubb. “It ran 500 laps at Darlington and did very well there. We’ve done a lot of work on the dyno at home doing simulations. Everything seems really good. It’s time to start breaking it out”.”

April 7, 2007 at 11:02 am
(976) Todd W says:

To Toyota fanatic –

The R07 isn’t this ‘engine of the future’ — that is on hold until 09, in fact 2010 now! If it was the ‘engine of the future’ everybody would be testing it, because that’s the concept behind it — The ‘engine of the future’ is an engine for everybody across the board; Not just Chevrolet. It would be universal! That’s what makes it such a future concept. ‘Like the car of tomorrow’ — Everyone uses the same thing. That’s the idea you see.

Here’s something I’m curious about, or since you’re such a ‘Toyota Fanatic’ your opinion on. Even that cutting edge R07 small block has ties to domestic assembly lines (Chevrolet is still pumping out small blocks in a lot of models). The Toyota engine has no direct ties whatsoever to any existing Toyota vehicle on their production line. So why should we allow Toyota (the first manufacturer since 1947 to meet this criteria) — Why should we over look such a break in the tradition of the sport just to allow them into it?

…And back to ‘Toyota rules’ again –

What a concept you mention!

In fact…

Que the commercial!

April 7, 2007 at 11:10 am
(977) Todd W says:

Fade in to Mr. ‘Whoever’ of the Honda corporation, in a conservative three piece suit (assuming the ‘Rod Serling’ approach to his narrative)

“Ladies and gentleman, we here at the Toyota corporation adhere to the following age old adjective of — More moving parts; equals out to more dependability”…..”You see ladies and gentleman, simple mathematics lay at the core of this basic principle…”The more moving parts that you incorporate into something; The more of a decrease in the odds that one of those parts will fail”.

April 7, 2007 at 12:29 pm
(978) Toyota Fanatic says:

Ok, I went to that jayski site as opposed to Hendricks motor-sports. I stand informed as jayski says these are 358 generation two engines, modernized, re-plumbed, and a few other minor upgrades. Nowhere do they clearly say it is or is not the ‘EOT’, but is the new engine. With that, this could be a debate of interpretation as well.

This is my first Toyota product, a 2007 Tundra double cab, and I’m enjoying it. This bad boy toy has a real DOHC Toyota built motor. You see, it was assembled in The United States, by American workers. Not in Mexico like my previous, and current Dodges.
It has a 5.7L 32V DOHC engine that produces in stock form, 381-HP and 401-Ft-Lbs. Perfect for towing my 21′ Ranger bass boat with both ease and comfort. There are no rattles, squeaks, and shakes from this rig, unlike my last 3 Dodges, 1 GMC, and 1 Ford. It is rated at 14/18, which by the way, is the same as the smaller sub 5L Dodge engine, which by the way, has much less power. In reality, my truck actually gets 16/20 daily. And about 12.5 with the boat attached. The Dodge dropped below 10 with the boat. And had a terrible time above 65MPH. Whereas the Toy holds 72MPH the whole 1.5 hr rolling hills trip.

I see you are attempting to lead me, as you have others down ‘your’ single minded approach to NASCAR engines.
I will say, read my above post. NASCAR informed Toyota THEY would NOT allow their motor. It would give Toyota the ADVANTAGE, and NASCAR could not allow that going against the domestics. I can understand that. Why can’t you?

Therefore, NASACR being the ruling authority had to make the racing field even. We can only accept for the decision of NASCAR not to allow the Toy engine. How can we not accept this? But with this acceptance comes another issue, there will be people like yourself challenging the NASCAR/Toyota engine. I can understand this as well. I don’t wear blinders, and I do tinker with trucks and more so with boats. Both of which have minor adjustments, and bolt on performance products. The end results being both of which produce better performance and get better fuel economy than in stock form. BTW, Bass boat outboard V6 motors are DOHC as well. However, NASCAR gave TRD a clean sheet, and said go forth. Toyota did just that and built the engine they have in todays NASCAR. Which of course cannot be bought by me, because Toyota does not have a production run of this motor. BUT, they do have production DOHC motors that again, NASCAR and the domestics CRIED “NOT FAIR”, so now we have the unfair truism of Toy building a US antiquated push-rod V8, which just burns your backside, does it not?

Final option.
Allow Toy to run their DOHC, or shut the heck up, and go cry about it elsewhere, because I quite frankly don’t give a flipping worm about it! Except the fact that NASCAR said NO, to their DOHC motor. So, from my stand point, you Todd, are just like NASCAR ‘scared of what might become! So, lets get them out before they take over our 60 year old domesticated sport? Right? Wrong?
Let them run their DOHC motor, and lets see how they fair then!

To all you haters out there, let me add my caveat: I served in the Army, I have been to Iraq, and I have placed US soldiers in body bags. I dislike being called a disabled vet, so therefore, I’m a 40% abled vet. Also, I am a red blooded hunting and fishing outdoors republican. Toyota builds trucks in my home state of Indiana, while your so called domestics build outside of the USofA. Either stand up and face the facts, or lay your crying self down and wait for the world to end, which by the way, is going to happen!

April 7, 2007 at 1:23 pm
(979) Todd W says:

This is what we like to see, a debate about the topic itself. Couple things, here –

Fanatic writes –

“I went to that Jayski site as opposed to Hendrick motor-sports. I stand informed as Jayski says these are 358 generation two engines, modernized, re-plumbed, and a few other minor upgrades. Nowhere do they clearly say it is or is not the ‘EOT’.

You know why they don’t mention the ‘EOT’ when describing the R07? Because it’s has entirely nothing to do with it. It’s a Chevrolet engine, designed for Chevrolet — not the entire field of NASCAR. ‘Generation two’, as in reference to ‘SB2′,which is short for ‘small block Chevrolet: second generation’. The R07 is a slight redisgn of the ‘Sb2′, precursor to the original small block Chevrolet introduce on assembly lines in 1955! The ‘EOT’ is a concept on paper right now. Big difference.

‘Fanatic’ writes –

“NASCAR informed Toyota THEY would NOT allow their motor”

…And why not Fanatic? Because the SOHC engine IS NASCAR, that’s why! NASCAR introduced restrictor plates twenty years ago now because those ‘antiquated’ domestic engines you speak of, were producing too much performance. After Bobby Allison tore half of the fence down in Talladega in 87, injuring scores of spectators, NASCAR said ‘hey, we have to restrict these motors from pushing these cars over 200 mph’.

They don’t need a new redesign to hit 220 mph; They can do that now! The emphasis is on durability for extended top end acceleration trials.. Like our previous Toyota supporter attempted to misinform us all, DOHC (or more moving parts) doesn’t mean better…especially in NASCAR! GM went with DOHC in the North star Cadillacs , okay design, but when it comes to choosing a performance based engine like the one that sits in the C6-R Corvette? No dice. They said ‘We will stick with what works’ Our SOHC small block (one of the most winning-est engine designs in the history of motor sports, that’s still winning!). Less moving parts equals more durabilty, and ease of operation. Not to mention more cost efficient on top of it all.

‘Fanatic’ writes –

“This is my first Toyota product, a 2007 Tundra double cab, and I’m enjoying it. This bad boy has a real DOHC Toyota built motor. You see, it was assembled in The United States, by American workers”.

Here’s some direct facts ‘again’ for this stale, and misinformed argument –

Toyota brags in ads about its growing list of U.S. plants, yet it imported 37% more cars from Japan last year than it did the previous year.
Detroit’s Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources.

Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%.

“The data is clear: Domestic auto plants create more jobs in this country than overseas producers who locate here,” says United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger in a statement to USA TODAY.

All told, each of the Detroit automakers supports 2½ times more U.S. jobs than Toyota, says Jim Doyle, president of the Level Field Institute, a Washington research group.

Toyota imported close to half of all the vehicles it sold in the USA last year from Japan, including all its gas-electric hybrids and most of its luxury Lexus division vehicles.

April 7, 2007 at 2:05 pm
(980) Toyota Fanatic says:

Cool Beans!

I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the part in which GM only produced an ok design. Here again, when we white boys don’t want to do something, but are forced to, it will get done. However, a floating carp may be a better product

Todd says~
“Toyota brags in ads about its growing list of U.S. plants, yet it imported 37% more cars from Japan last year than it did the previous year.
Detroit’s Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources”.

What Todd held back is; Of Detroit’s big 2 (not 3) about 62% of those were imported from outside the US for final assembly in either Canada or mexico, which then MAKE that a complete 100% imported domestic product! More so, it was built AND assembled by Non-US-American workers, thou it was assembled on the North American continent! The other (for some) still considered domestic brand is not a “Ripley’s Believe it or not” it is true, 100% import! Just like Toyota, they have plants here, but are not located here. These are the hidden agendas behind Detroit, don’t allow this wool scarf to touch you, it really ain’t wool, it’s fish bait.

No doubt GM has many years experience with the OHV engine. As well, Toyota has many years experience with their DOHC engine.

Now to the track. Yes the antique push rod has been revived many times over. Yes it is a truly capable motor. Yes it has it’s flaws. I never said anything bad about it did I? It is a great engine. It can propel a special built for the track NASCAR in excess of 200mph, still no questions. Is it fool proof? No. Is it rock solid? No. If it was, then there would be zero blown engines in the sport. There would not be any valve train weight to ratio factors, and there would be zero floating valve issues. But, as we all know, it is not flawless. They do in fact implode and fragment. They do drop a valve, or spin a timing chain. Even spin bearings, and shear gears, fact is: Stuff Happens.

I say, let Toyota run their DOHC engines, lets see what can happen. What is there to be scared of? It seems NASCAR has an issue. It seems the other three teams have an issue.

I mean; what could possibly be so bad about a 800hp 5.7L (358) GM designed and built OHV racing engine going up against a: 940hp 4.2L Toyota designed and built DOHC racing engine?
Just a little ruling sanction called NASCAR!

April 7, 2007 at 3:12 pm
(981) Todd W says:

..And back –

Fanatic writes (regarding the Northstar ‘DOHC V8)

“GM only produced an ok design”

Oh I’m not too sure about that. That GM ‘DOHC’ beat out both Mercedes-Benz and BMW in horsepower per liter of displacement, fuel economy and required maintenance. Not to mention is far superior to the foreign DOHC sitting in you ‘bad toy’ Tundra.

As for this comment –

“I mean; what could possibly be so bad about a 800hp 5.7L (358) GM designed and built OHV racing engine going up against a: 940hp 4.2L Toyota designed and built DOHC racing engine?
Just a little ruling sanction called NASCAR!”

If NASCAR approved such a move as to allow DOHC as the base platform, there is no doubt in my mind that the GM North star 32 valve could hold it’s own against any DOHC Toyota. But this is NASCAR we are discussing. ‘National’ as in a domesticated form of motor sports who’s origins lie in Detroit. They run carburetors, and SOHC push rod engines to keep costs down, and to simplify the tech inspection process. That’s why we see ignition plates up on the dash in full view of the officials, carburetors as opposed to EFI under the hoods. NASCAR’s off season consists of two months total. In between there, these events are held on a weekly basis. The main reason for running those engines is to –

a. Minimize costs
b. They are proven and reliable
c. To deter cheating, as was the case with Toyota’s attempt at cheating in their very first cup race ever!

As for your ‘production line’ argument,

Fanatic writes –

“Detroit’s big 2 (not 3) about 62% of those were imported from outside the US for final assembly in either Canada or mexico, which then MAKE that a complete 100% imported domestic product! More so, it was built AND assembled by Non-US-American workers, thou it was assembled on the North American continent!”

That doesn’t even make any sense. As far as domestic material used to create the auto’s — 77 percent! As far as it being assembled in Canada, I have no issue with that whatsoever. Because the Canadians have been buying from Detroit since it’s inception. Not to mention the closest allies we have on the globe when it comes right down to it.

Regardless, the facts have already been thrown right in your face –

“All told, each of the Detroit automakers supports 2½ times more U.S. jobs than Toyota, says Jim Doyle, president of the Level Field Institute, a Washington research group”

Domestics still support more jobs in this country period!
You claim this in a previous post –

“To all you haters out there, let me add my caveat: I served in the Army, I have been to Iraq, and I have placed US soldiers in body bags.”

I’m sure you’re aware then of the main reason behind soldiers ending up in those body bags as well; It’s roadside traps, using improvised explosive devices. Those domestic vehicles over there, with GM engines in everyone of them are their best line of defense for not winding up in those body bags. By July, all of those domestic transport vehicles will bring A LOT of Americans home, because it’s the domestic manufacturer that is working non stop to further reinforce them. With no help whatsoever from Toyota, even though they want to produce vehicles in this country….And just to cash in on folks like yourself, many who will be returning in one piece because of the domestic auto! Something tells me any member of the armed services would be more informed than that. Especially, supposedly returning from Iraq!

April 7, 2007 at 4:59 pm
(982) Toyota Fanatic says:

You are such a woeful individual, are you not?

Back the truck up here, Bud! In your post Todd, you, as in Todd W posted in number 1066; I quote; “GM went with DOHC in the North star Cadillacs , okay design, but when it comes to choosing a performance based engine like the one that sits in the C6-R Corvette? No dice”.

Do you not remember writing that?

You should, as you did. All I did was use that as a paraphrase in my post number 1067, which by the way, is just below 1066. I have CRS, you should not!

You can believe who you want in Detroit, but answer me this. If they do as they say, and as you so heartfelt believe in, WHY do they assembly outside the US? Then, how can they claim they employ more workers with all this outsourcing going on?

I’m sure you know the exact difference between a daisy chained three 105mm IED, and a simo chained four rounder VBIED. Right?

Don’t even show your ignorance when it comes the the military or military equipment. I was mounted all of my career, General Dynamics Land Systems Division built my platform.

It’s the freaks in the news that has our boys getting blown up in those stupid light duty trucks. Trucks are made for hauling; Beans, Bullets, and Boots. They were never intended to be a armored vehicle. But those blasted liberals on TV can’t tell the difference between a M113 Medic track, and a M1A1 combat tank. Now, we have guys riding in those worthless vehicles using them as combat patrol vehicles. That is so far wrong it’s stupid! They need to be back in their tanks and I/CFVs. And the new “Stryker” ain’t much better!

As far as who builds what, you are clueless there Bud. GDLS built my ride, and it had a GE engine in it. The last time I looked GE and GM where not related. As far as the wheeled vehicles go, they have Caterpillar engines in them. Not sure what you are getting on to with that?

As far as me? I do not consider that $2500 I get every month for the rest of my numbered days to be mine wholly, but rather yours and other tax paying citizens of this country. I feel it is my duty to utilize this money the best I can. And in doing such, I have that Toyota Tundra. It is built right here in my home state. It is built by red blooded good ol’ Indiana boys who need jobs as well. It may not be a Big 2, but it WAS BUILT with AMERICAN hands, not mexican!

April 7, 2007 at 5:42 pm
(983) Todd W says:

To this first,

Toyota ‘Fanatic’ writes –

“You can believe who you want in Detroit, but answer me this. If they do as they say, and as you so heartfelt believe in, WHY do they assembly outside the US? Then, how can they claim they employ more workers with all this outsourcing going on?”

Number one they don’t ‘claim’ — that is a fact. GM plants alone greatly outnumber foreign plants in this country…And the obvious answer to your question? — Cheap labor costs. Reason for it? Because the average American like you won’t buy American. Simple as that. They are however responsible for providing the best healthcare benefits to their retirees although. Domestic auto’s are just as reliable as any import all the way across the board. We are entering into the second decade of the 21′st century here. You don’t think a domestic car line can produce a passenger vehicle to rival foreign competitors as far as quality goes?

That’s a myth. A myth that started way back in the early seventies when bearcats, and government put a strangle hold on the domestic auto lines, paving the way for Toyota to even sell in this country. The same liberals you apparently loath, who would like us all to believe global warming is going to destroy the planet after only 100 some years of heavy industry. Ralph Nadar, who lobbied all of this green peace crap decades ago. People like that, that’s who propagated this myth that domestic auto’s are inferior to Japanese tin. Maybe somewhat true decades ago, but not in this day and age. The life blood of this country is over the road freight, again domestic! — hauling those Toyota’s (like your Tundra) to the dealership!

As for this –

Fanatic writes –

As far as who builds what, you are clueless there Bud. GDLS built my ride, and it had a GE engine in it. The last time I looked GE and GM where not related.

Well, maybe you should look again. For example –

GM-GDLS Defense Group LLC was a joint venture owned in equal shares by General Motors and General Dynamics Land Systems until General Dynamics acquired GM Defense in 2003. They manufacture armored combat vehicles.

Looks like GM had more to do with your ‘ride’ than you first assumed now doesn’t it?

April 7, 2007 at 6:08 pm
(984) Toyota Fanatic says:

Cool Beans, Bud!

You remind me of PVT. Schmukatellme.

So, I guess I will begin to treat you as one.

Here Bud, check it out. The entire history of GD. Feel free to point out any such mention of whatever it was you posted above from this link:

And in another instance, again feel free to point out your chosen path here as well:

“Addition of Tanks/Land Systems: 1980s

Veliotis left Electric Boat in 1981 to take a seat on the General Dynamics board of directors and to serve as international salesperson and ‘company ambassador.’ Later that year, however, Veliotis resigned in protest over a dispute with David Lewis, whom Veliotis claimed had promised him the position of chief executive officer. Soon thereafter, Veliotis was indicted by government prosecutors for illegal business practices. He fled to Greece, maintaining that he had possession of damaging evidence of fraudulent overcharges made by General Dynamics.

In 1982, General Dynamics purchased the Chrysler Corporation battle tank division, with plants located in Warren, Michigan, and Lima, Ohio. The division, renamed Land Systems, had already secured a government contract to build the Army’s next main battle tank, the M-1. Developed in response to newer Soviet tanks such as the T-72, the M-1 was to be powered by a jet turbine and capable of speeds of up to 50 miles per hour. The M-1 also included a computer-guided gun-aiming mechanism designed to assure a high degree of accuracy while the tank was traveling over rough terrain at high speeds.

When the first M-1 prototypes were delivered from Land Systems, several basic design flaws were noticed by Pentagon officials. First, exhaust from the engine was so hot that infantry could not come near the tank for cover under fire. Moreover, the M-1 was fast but prone to breakdown, and it required so much fuel that logistical support became questionable. Finally, the M-1′s ammunition bay was too small to carry more than 40 shells. Critics recommended that the M-1 project be canceled in favor of its predecessor, the durable, battle-tested M-60. During this same period, General Dynamics won a government contract to service and maintain TAKX supply ships for the American Rapid Deployment Force.

Also at this time, Lewis and other company officials were called to testify before a congressional subcommittee, which suggested that the company had overcharged the government for supplies and personal expenses. The proceedings initiated separate investigations by the Justice Department and the Internal Revenue Service. Soon after Admiral Rickover was involuntarily retired by Navy Secretary John Lehman, General Dynamics was awarded a government contract to manufacture a number of new boats, including the $500 million Ohio class Trident submarine. The contract eliminated many of the company’s disputed charges to the Pentagon and, as a result, led to the cessation of the congressional investigation. Wisconsin Senator William Proxmire criticized these developments by remarking that ‘defense contractors like General Dynamics have so much leverage against the government they can flout the laws that govern smaller companies and individuals.’

David Lewis retired in 1985 and was replaced by Stanley C. Pace, formerly head of TRW. Oliver Boileau, president of General Dynamics, was passed over for the position at the insistence of the board of directors and the Crown family, all of whom wished to see an end to the policies of Lewis and his protégés. Pace made several changes at General Dynamics, even before Lewis had left the company. He sold the Quincy shipyard and founded a new division called Valley Systems, established to win contracts for the Reagan Administration’s Strategic Defense Initiative. In 1985 he purchased Cessna Aircraft Co. Pace also helped clean up General Dynamics’ image by instituting an ethics program, which resulted in the firing of 27 employees”.

So as we all can now see, your little tidbit of lies up their is just that, a FARCE!

Now onward boys!
So only the domestics then can provide American jobs to mexicans and canucks and take credit for it? That does not compute well up here Bud!

Who gives a stink bait about global warming? It ain’t gonna happen in my lifetime!

April 7, 2007 at 7:01 pm
(985) Toyota Fanatic says:

What’s it gonna be next there, Bud? My Ranger bass boat is also a GM product? Don’t forget about the motor! Somehow I can see you placing GM as building it as well.
Then what? My John Deere tractors?

April 7, 2007 at 7:33 pm
(986) Todd W says:

You expect me to read all that drivel you just pasted in there?

Let’s play the ‘link’ game now


Why would General Dynamics go into a ‘joint venture’ with General Motors? Couldn’t have had anything to do with things like diesel engines, and vehicle platforms now could it?

…And the point of all of this again? Your going to sit there and rattle off about the history of a domestic defense contractor, yet at the same time, bad mouth domestic automobile manufacturers? Then in the next sentence, praise Toyota because they opened a few plants in the United States?

Why do you think they opened those plants here anyway colonel? Why do you think they are on a hard driven campaign reminding at each chance they get of how ‘We have plants in your country’? Because it’s an investment (a tactic) to move even more of their product over here, which in returned gets funneled right back into Japan. That’s why!

Same exact reason they are in NASCAR. To boost the profit in a Japanese company.

…And enough about the Tundra already. Domestic trucks own that cheap rip off of an American full size. Not only that, but in buying that garbage…You just invested even more money into a Japanese corporation. And not only that, you have become a spokesperson (‘fanatic’) for them in the process. And at the same time, putting down domestic manufactures who have literally brought YOUR country through two world wars and continue to be called upon to do so. Who really is ignorant here ‘Japan fanatic’?

April 7, 2007 at 7:56 pm
(987) Toyota Fanatic says:

You might know engines, Xbox, and computers, but you don’t know jack about the military.
Did you happen to read the part about where GD purchased Chrysler Corporation battle tank division? That doesn’t say GM anywhere Bud, it reads CHRYSLER.

It’s Xbox punks like you that think they know a little something, and they have to demonstrate that to the world. Then when someone who has real world experience with said discussion, people like you pull the old stretch the catch line a little, maybe it will pass. Well guess what Bud, it did not!

I served my country for years. I had the best damn equipment in the world. I was trained on and with some of the best equipment and people this globe has ever known. I have lost friends, and acquaintances, I have been spit upon because I wore my uniform in public.

I’ll be darned if I will sit back and let some Xbox punk tell me what I should or should not drive. And I will surely not let same menace to society tell me who made the equipment that served me so well for many years!

If you want to talk NASCAR here on the NASCAR forum that is fine.
But if you want to flap your lips about the military, I’ve got a number for you. 1-800-USA-ARMY. Come back here after you have experienced who does what in the real world. Until then, go sit in the corner until I holler your name, then jump up, drop and give me 50. Then I’ll assign your detail. Got It?

Check this place out Bud:

Then read this:

That kid was one of my mine in my last outfit. That one hurts, gosh damn you have no idea how bad that one hurts…

April 7, 2007 at 8:06 pm
(988) Toyota Fanatic says:

Here Bud, if you want to play the linky game, at least know what and who you are dealing with.


April 7, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(989) NE Man says:

Wow… a lot has happened since i was on last. Ok, yeah todd has been lying and stretching the truth about things for a long time. Im glad someone finally came in to help. First of all, he does twist his own words around and tries to get away with it. I wonder if he realizes we can read his previous posts… He did say those Northstar DOHC V8s were ok. He reminds me of Hilary Clinton. In 2002 she said she votes in favor of invading Iraq without hesitation, and now she says she would never vote for it if she was president. So Todd, which was it? Were they ok or not. Because you said they were then said they were the best thing ever. As for the quality of vehicles. Domestics are getting better, but are not quite up to par with Toyota. You wonder why the Big 2 keep going out of the States. Its because they lose sales. Why? Toyota makes a better product. Pure and simple. You say the commercials are brainwashing us ‘stupid Americans’ but GM has commercials that boast the same thing. So whats going on then? Fact is that Toyota produces better enigines and vehicles on and off the track, when its their choice. If NASCAR was serious about letting them race, they should be able to use their own design. But no, they are afraid.

April 7, 2007 at 9:06 pm
(990) Todd W says:

Listen chief, just because you had death strike close to you doesn’t make you some sort of minority. Death happens everywhere, and right here at home too. None of that makes you more ‘American’ or more of a minority than any other American. You can face just as much personal tragedy outside of a uniform.

I’m not going to delve into these sort of personal revelations here because it’s way out of left field…Especially when it comes to a NASCAR blog! What’s the point of any of that anyway? More direct, what does that have to do with this topic? Answer — zero!

Regardless, nobody’s challenging you on a personal level here, I’m debating your ideology when it comes to Toyota in stock car racing for Christ’s sake…And obviously your so worked up over that, that you have to shift all the way into setting up a big sympathy ploy in some warped attempt to help aid in your argument, which fundamentally is in support of Toyota racing in NASCAR.

Honestly, I don’t care who you are. If your going to sit there and blog away as the ‘Toyota fanatic’ bad mouthing domestic manufacturers, while supporting Japan left and right, offering these misguided arguments when it comes to NASCAR — I’m going to call you on all of it. Which I have been doing all along, like these comments –

“Which is, hello, the Toyota designed and built EOT! However, GM has their version designation as the RO7″

Completely false statement.

“Toyota designed an engine that was lighter, stronger and potentially able to produce more power than anything that the other three either are currently using or were planning to build.”

Again, another misguided statement.

Considering comments like that, yes let’s here some more talk from you about NASCAR.

NeMan adds –

“Im glad someone finally came in to help.”

Oh I bet you are NEMan, because when it comes to this particular topic; you need all the help you can receive. Talk about ‘X box’ players, there’s one your just going to love colonel.

Listen chief, just because you had death strike close to you doesn’t make you some sort of minority. Death happens everywhere, and right here at home too. None of that makes you more ‘American’ or more of a minority than any other American. You can face just as much personal tragedy outside of a uniform.

I’m not going to delve into these sort of personal revelations here because it’s way out of left field…Especially when it comes to a NASCAR blog! What’s the point of any of that anyway? More direct, what does that have to do with this topic? Answer — zero!

Regardless, nobody’s challenging you on a personal level here, I’m debating your ideology when it comes to Toyota in stock car racing for Christ’s sake…And obviously your so worked up over that, that you have to shift all the way into setting up a big sympathy ploy in some warped attempt to help aid in your argument, which fundamentally is in support of Toyota racing in NASCAR.

Honestly, I don’t care who you are. If your going to sit there and blog away as the ‘Toyota fanatic’ bad mouthing domestic manufacturers, while supporting Japan left and right, offering these misguided arguments when it comes to NASCAR — I’m going to call you on all of it. Which I have been doing all along, like these comments –

“Which is, hello, the Toyota designed and built EOT! However, GM has their version designation as the RO7″

Completely false statement.

“Toyota designed an engine that was lighter, stronger and potentially able to produce more power than anything that the other three either are currently using or were planning to build.”

Again, another misguided statement.

Considering comments like that, yes let’s here some more talk from you about NASCAR.

NeMan adds –

“Im glad someone finally came in to help.”

Oh I bet you are NEMan, because when it comes to this particular topic; you need all the help you can receive.

April 7, 2007 at 9:53 pm
(991) NE Man says:

Having another persons help persuading a closeminded individual such as yourself means nothing. All i meant by it was that he is welcome here. Its hard to persuade you of YOUR misguided take on things and being the only one here is quite frustrating. To me its like arguing with a three year old, though my three year old cousin would eventually get it. What you dont get Todd, is that you brought up the miliary. He rebutted in like fashion, but when somebody shows you up you have to denounce him and say ‘thats way in left field. Thats off topic.’ Dont try to deny that you do that. You are the worst cukprit of that. In this last blog you had absolutely no argument except to shoot down his character, which you did despite your phrase: “Regardless, nobody’s challenging you on a personal level here, I’m debating your ideology when it comes to Toyota in stock car racing for Christ’s sake.” In case you havent noticed, people kill and die for an ideology. This is more of a hobby than an ideology, and anybody besides anyone involved in the sport, excluding spectators, shouldnt take it as an ideology. It is a hobby like fishing and hunting, nothing against Toyota Fanatic. I hunt and fish too, but thats beside the point. Todd, you have no more arguments. You just get the last word, and its tiring. Its pathetic.

April 7, 2007 at 10:28 pm
(992) Toyota Fanatci says:

Look Bud, I popped in here to discuss NASCAR.

I provided you with data taken directly from a NASCAR source, in “quotes”. You do realize when somebody uses “quotes” that means it’s’ taken from elsewhere don’t you?

Changing Topics: Why yes, I do realize that to be an issue. Let’s see it was just recently as post 1068 that Todd W strayed into talking about military vehicle production, engines and whatnots.

Yes, that would be you there Bud, changing topics first.

Then you had to go as far as making up some harebrained idea that you thought you knew something, again, changing the TOPIC there Bud, in reference to some idiot in DC that tells you how he ‘might’ do something better if he could.

Now Bud, it appears you don’t want to talk about military vehicles, because you have been presented with an experienced topic opponent.

Then you come back to the ‘EOT’ which by the way, you have yet to validate there Bud. Which I can only guess, you think I have gotten all worked up and have forgotten what you have written, and hidden within your off topic remarks?

Nope, again I’m using “quotes”.
…”Toyota designed an engine that was lighter, stronger and potentially able to produce more power than anything that the other three either are currently using or were planning to build… NASCAR officials – in what may have been an attempt to appease the other three manufacturers – allowed Chevy, Dodge and Ford the opportunity to submit new engine block designs as well”.

Your turn Bud, validate your claim on the ‘EOT’, because I already quote posted that Hendricks has three of them in testing, to your “they haven’t even been casted yet”.

A few items left yet, but since it has become clear to me, and I’m feeling ethically dirty, I will not indulge in anymore battles with an unarmed opponent.

Remember, when you grow up and out of the Xbox stage, don’t be scared to join and serve. In fact drop me line here. I will give you an extension number, and a special code for you to enter when you call 1-800-USA-ARMY, heck, I’ll even split my bonus with you. Would you like that? Think of all the cool gear you could buy with $250 cold hard dollars! Heck, if the season is right, I’ll even take you down to the track to catch a race. What do you say to that?

One last thing that still needs to be clarified thou Bud. I want specifics, post numbers etc. Thoughts and interpretations are a no-go here:
When, What, and How did I disrespect the domestics?

April 7, 2007 at 11:44 pm
(993) Todd W says:

First to NEMan who writes –

What you dont get Todd, is that you brought up the miliary. He rebutted in like fashion

Oh I don’t think so NEMan, he brought the military up himself out of nowhere back on #1065 when he declared –

“To all you haters out there, let me add my caveat: I served in the Army, I have been to Iraq,”

Which makes me wonder actually. After all anybody could claim anything in a blog.

As to this nonsense –

“Your turn Bud, validate your claim on the ‘EOT’, because I already quote posted that Hendricks has three of them in testing, to your “they haven’t even been casted yet”.

The R07 (358 cid) that you yourself pointed out on #1065 — again when YOU started on the military,

Fanatic types —

“I went to that Jayski site as opposed to Hendrick motor-sports. I stand informed as Jayski says these are 358 generation two engines, modernized, re-plumbed, and a few other minor upgrades. Nowhere do they clearly say it is or is not the ‘EOT’.

Here’s one obvious clue that isn’t the ‘EOF’ –

NASCAR’s proposed “engine of the future” for 2007 would be sized down to 325 c.i., about 100 horsepower smaller than the current 358 c.i. design.

Oh and to all you ‘haters’ out there that claim the muscle car and SOHC is outdated, and a past accomplishment of Detroit somehow. Guess what just took best of show at the New York auto show? An ‘American’ muscle car literally. The new Shelby Mustang KR. Compare it to the boxy Subaru, which still looks like a dreary compact disguised up as a performance car. Or the boring Toyota offerings.

April 8, 2007 at 12:28 am
(994) Toyota Fanatic says:

Well you do realize from reading here that some people have issues when a new poster comes along and disrupts their simpleton world. The first three things they want to say is;
1. “Well if you have ever served…”
2. “You liberals this…”
3. “You don’t understand because you’ve never experienced a domestic truck…”

To place ‘haters’ in check fire with a quickness, I conduct a preemptive strike right into their maw!

Now for you whipper snapper. You jumped both feet off into a shallow hole that was deeper than you expected.

I really like how you fail to inform us of the ‘EOT’ not even being casted, when yet Hendricks has three. Nice how you can hang onto the RO7, but cannot let go to save your soul.

Again “quotes”:
…”which has been under top-secret development by Rick Hendrick Motorsports and has already finished its first dyno run, according to sources, two more engines will be tested in the upcoming off week. Chevy execs have been tight-lipped about the project”…

Again, where is your proof to your accusation Bud? Did you have a momentary case of CRS?

I think you were just out there flapping again, and cannot back up your statements. Now you just keep burying them with cut bait in an attempt and a hope that somebody else will come along and let you steer them into stuperdome! Tell you what, let me throw some frag grenades in your general direction. i’ll let you hope they don’t hurt! Hope is overrated, get to stepping!

Also, where is your rebuttal to outsourcing, did you forget about that to? Just like a Xbox generation private! I can work with you here Bud, but you have to want to help yourself as well. So put the control down and go search about the outsource vs American built in Indiana, and why Daimler does not trade on the US stock market, but Toyota does! Got it? Go get it! Then it will all be good!

April 8, 2007 at 1:12 am
(995) Todd W says:

Well….I thought it was you ‘Toyota Rocks’ aka ‘Athiest’ aka ‘Toyota Rules’

The hardcore military approach just gives you away. Sort of like the ‘I placed bodies in the bags’ approach that didn’t work for you way back on #912…

When your claim was –

“It was 14 May 2006 when one of my classmates gave it all for his country. The IED ripped completely through the bottom of his HMMWV, tossing it like a paper-mache toy into the air and onto it’s back. Left in the smoldering crater was two KIAs (driver and commander), one permanently paralyzed (port gunner), and two walking wounded (starboard gunner and hatch gunner).”

Let’s not forget the fictional ‘barn’ in the follow up post on #913 with the fictional muscle car collection while were at it. ‘Aethiest’ aka ‘Toyota rocks’ aka ‘Toyota rules’ aka ‘Toyota fanatic’ writes –

“Todd W:
The barn is real. It belongs to my uncle. He is for the lack of a better term, a “salvage shyster”.

Gee, I wondered why ‘Toyota rules’ quit posting all of a sudden. Here’s a tip — Next name you create a new name, make sure it doesn’t start off with ‘Toyota’, and veer away from the war stories (leave them in the Tom Clancy novel, or wherever the hell your copying that garbage from).

That ‘GoArmy’ number you linked — you call, and spare me the fabricated, wounded ‘hero’ trip in the NASCAR blog captain.

As to the latest leg of the debate, ‘Toyota’ writes –

“…”which has been under top-secret development by Rick Hendrick Motorsports and has already finished its first dyno run, according to sources, two more engines will be tested in the upcoming off week. Chevy execs have been tight-lipped about the project”…

Can you explain to me why Chevrolet would be single handedly developing this engine — when it’s supposed to be used by each manufacter? Get your crap together Aethiest, show me one line in the Hendrick article that they even hint at it being the ‘engine of the future’.

April 8, 2007 at 1:15 am
(996) Toyota Fanatic says:

Wow Todd W, you literally blew me away with this. So much so I had to go and investigate it; here is what I found:
“There’s no particular theme to this year’s show in New York, so the various world debuts have ranged from sports cars to people movers. So far, the most prominent unveil has been the 2009 Ford Flex”. ~Not exactly what you said!

I did read that here, just in case that is NOT where you got your info.

Then I found this:
“Inside Line Readers’ Choice: 2007 New York Auto Show -Let us know which vehicles you thought were the best and worst at the 2007 New York Auto Show. There are only five categories, so this won’t take more than a couple minutes. Check back on April 12th for the results”.

That was from here:

Well now, it looks as if the resolver network has a malfunction. The first component that has a failure is Todd. It looks as thou he has been sipping the bilge water instead of the cooler water. This will make you delirious, Bud!

I’m still waiting for you to validate your claims about the things YOU claim I said. But it now looks as thou you have a bit more explaining to do here, Bud!

April 8, 2007 at 1:22 am
(997) Todd W says:

Maybe, you will switch off to ‘Toyota rules’ now instead (don’t forget that you work for the EPA under that handle). Or maybe ‘the Aethiest’ will at least return to claim how he has been busy restoring the ‘winged’ Superbird out in the barn. Or maybe the wounded hero guise is just too much fun to abandon at this point. If only we could talk Clancy instead of NASCAR so you wouldn’t have to keep making up all of these names!!! Tell you what, take your imaginary hero status, and find a blog that does.


April 8, 2007 at 1:39 am
(998) Toyota Fanatic says:

What are you sniveling about now?
Get off your duff and get that info you keep stalling about! Don’t be scared! You are the one who boasted the claim!

“Well….I thought it was you ‘Toyota Rocks’ aka ‘Athiest’ aka ‘Toyota Rules’”

WHAT????????You are delirious, Bud!

“It was 14 May 2006 when one of my classmates gave it all for his country. The IED ripped completely through the bottom of his HMMWV, tossing it like a paper-mache toy into the air and onto it’s back”.

Again, WHAT???? 14 May 06 I was already retired, had been home for several months. Hummers? Bud, I was mounted, M1A1 tanks since 1984, a Hummer is a POS! AM General should have stayed with building mail jeeps.

WHAT? I have no idea what you are trolling about now. What barn? I don’t have any barns. I have a open faced shed where I park my Deeres, and a closed slip that houses my boat, none of which can be considered a barn!

The number I gave you? Bud, that number is real, it will put you in contact with a Army recruiter quicker than you can scratch your back side. 1-800-USA-ARMY. The code I will give you is a link to my retired account, I’m willing to share the bonus with you when you sign up!

Are you sure you are not playing xbox on the other channel? Maybe you are slightly mis-oriented with your bearings? But whatever it is, don’t confuse me with your Xbox Halo buddies. It’s all fun and games until your body armor gets penetrated for real, and the blood on the ground is from one of your real life team members.

I have seen where hummers where destroyed by IEDs and such, but I have never witnessed it, or been in/on one.

April 8, 2007 at 1:49 am
(999) Toyota Fanatic says:

Todd, I think you have experienced a dehydration phase, or some such. you need to either stop here, or stop with the Xbox, because you are surely going on about things you are not old enough to say in public. nor should you be up this late. Is that it Todd? is it past your bed time?

I’m very unclear at the moment what you are onto about, but you are only making your self image reflect that of your generation. If you are having Xbox flash backs, then surely you cannot make it in the real world.

Who might all these others be? are they your friends or something? Heck, why don’t all of you just call the 1-800-USA-ARMY number and use my code. Heck I’ll take all of you to a race up here!

Now there are three things that you still owe here.
1. You accused me of dis-respect to the domestics, where is that proof?
2. You owe the American built vs outsourced economy deviation.
3. You also owe, why does Toyota sell their stock on the US stock market, but Daimler does not.
Got It? Then go it, and stop wasting time, step it out! Hup two, hup two. Left, left, left, right, left. Put your hat on backwards so it looks like you are headed back this way with you info.

April 8, 2007 at 1:54 am
(1000) Todd W says:

Just to keep us all on the same page here thus far –

My debates began somewhere in the 600′s with the ‘Aethiest’…

Soon after ‘Toyota rocks’ arrives debating similar nonsense…(Aethiest vanishes)

Shortly around then, a complete other blog id enters into the fray, claiming to be a public relations representative for none other than?…AM General (a military contractor) Pattern already sounding familiar?

Soon after the Aethiest returns and actually admits to being ‘Toyota rocks’!!!! (This is where the tales of ‘combat missions’ begin)

After a brief hiatus, ‘Toyota Rules’ then emerges, and claims to be employed by the EPA at some distinguished government level….(the ‘Aethiest’ again vanishes from the scene)

And finally,,,Toyota fanatic’ emerges to carry on with similar stupidity. (Toyota rules goes into hiding)



Outright stupidity???

You be the judge. Great entertainment though : )

April 8, 2007 at 1:58 am
(1001) Toyota Fanatic says:

Well Bud, it’s getting to be a bit late here. I’m going to go boots up and power down.

You probably should do the same. I did not realize how late it was.

Here, you can use this post to blame me on your parents for keeping you up sol ate. To the adults of Todd W, please do not be harsh on him for being up so late. It is surely my fault for this as we were discussing NASCAR and engines here on the NASCAR page.
Sergeant First Class B. Mack
USA (Retired).

April 8, 2007 at 2:12 am
(1002) Todd W says:

What’s really hilarious is how when the military act is called for what it is (Steve won’t allow me to ‘pronounce’ the term) — he increases the military role of the character in his posts all the more, believing somehow that will make it all the more convincing in some way!

Nitey nite now, see you (or whoever you choose to be) tomorrow!

: )

April 8, 2007 at 11:40 pm
(1003) SFC B. Mack says:

Hello All,
My name is Sergeant First Class (Retired) B. Mack, and I am a retired Army veteran that conducts cyber recruiting for the Army as a contractor with the firm MPRI. Today my goal is Heavy Truck Drivers, and Wheeled Mechanics. Imagine yourself driving an OSHKOSH truck, or being the go-to person to fix that big rig! It takes strength and courage to be a soldier in todays Army, and together we can make you Army strong.
The reason I chose this forum is quite clear, anybody that is here to discuss NASACR should have an understanding of vehicles and mechanics.

There Todd, is that better?
Every teenager within 50 postings of here has just now scattered like a school of shad that has been hit by feeding bass.

So, I’m not the first Army cyber recruiter who has made contact with you? ;)
Your log is long, yet not quite distinguished, there Bud.

At almost 30, I cannot get you anything other than ‘Cook’. So, I guess like the rest, that is not your preferred field.

May I ask? I’m hoping at your age you still don’t have sleep overs and conduct all night Halo sessions. Do you have a form of ADS?
I will say, I deal with 100′s of teenagers a week, and you had me fooled! No malice intended, you just fit that category well.

Anyway, total count is 72, and not a single one of them has anything good to say.
We are going to have to disconnect that extension to prevent further undue shameful remarks concerning you Todd W… who resides in…

B. Mack
USA Cyber Recruiter

April 9, 2007 at 12:01 am

Wow, lots been going on here!
Todd, I’m with ya on everything but, SOHC is what the 427 cammer was, Not a pushrod engine, I know you know what I mean and I’m sure you just slipped your fingers. As far as GM buildin non-mirror port engines, I hope it works for them, Ford small block has had it since day one. If DualOverHeadCams are outlawed why aren’t they useing these http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm that would give ‘em 4 valves and pushrods too, must be a anti-32valve thing!
as for the Toy lover(s) a 4.2 DOHC will not make 900+ HP without a Turbo, another NASCAR no no. After all the 3.3L Indy engines the (REAL) ones a decade ago took DOHC and nearly 50psi boost to make 800+ hp. Todd, Ever notice that the Toy boy claim they have more power and better fuel milage than is actually possible?

April 9, 2007 at 1:22 pm
(1005) Todd W says:

Good catch MImports,

In between cooking downloads and speed typing, I’ve been referring to the NASCAR SB2, etc as a SOHC instead of just ‘SC’ or single cam too lol. I’m amazed that none of the import supporters had picked up on that yet honestly. As for the 427 in the GT40′s, I had the mid decade, ‘side oiler’ on my mind in attempt to make the point initially.

Point being, even though Shelby borrowed a British body for the Cobras; The engines in them weren’t ripped off from the British on top of it all!!

As for the 900 plus horse 4.2 Toyota engine, who wrote that anyway? SFC ‘B Mack’ ???

He begins –

“Today my goal is Heavy Truck Drivers, and Wheeled Mechanics. Imagine yourself driving an OSHKOSH

Great fun! Hopefully there’s no double clutching involved, unlike the last old tractor I hoped up into.

“So, I’m not the first Army cyber recruiter who has made contact with you?”

No recruiter has ever contacted myself, not even way back in high school pal.

“Anyway, total count is 72, and not a single one of them has anything good to say”

So? What’s stopping any of them from debating with me in a simple blog about stock car racing??

“Every teenager within 50 postings of here has just now scattered like a school of shad that has been hit by feeding bass.”

Why? Because you supposedly announced that you’re a recruiter for the Armed services? Okay, then how do you expect to recruit any of them then in the first place? Especially over the internet for that matter? Going by you’re own logic — By default, a ‘cyber’ recruiter not only has to enter sports blogs in ‘cognito’ to find recruits, but attempt to deceive them in someway in the process. Honestly, I don’t think it works that way ‘Mack’. Recruiters are up front from the beginning!! That’s why they enter high schools in full dress…know what I mean?

April 9, 2007 at 9:49 pm
(1006) NE Man says:

“Now there are three things that you still owe here.
1. You accused me of dis-respect to the domestics, where is that proof?
2. You owe the American built vs outsourced economy deviation.
3. You also owe, why does Toyota sell their stock on the US stock market, but Daimler does not.
Got It? Then go it, and stop wasting time, step it out! Hup two, hup two. Left, left, left, right, left. Put your hat on backwards so it looks like you are headed back this way with you info.” You know he has a point. Provide arguments for these or shut up. Im sick and tired of you going on and on in your paranoid little way that everyone is the same person and we are all out to get you. You still have yet to provide reliable sources and if someone actually provides one, you piss on it saying it isnt a real source. You have no facts and nothing to back anything up with. Why dont you just go away, unless you actually back things up.

April 9, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(1007) Todd W says:

MImports, about that link..

Great point. I was aware of 32 valve bolt on heads for awhile now, but that was stored way deep in my memory banks somewhere. Plus, I have never seen a set of those heads personally, but it would be really trick under hood to see. All aluminum 32 valve heads vs DOHC? Sure, love to see that.

And since the DOHC Toyota is going to be all aluminum, lets see which performs better when bolted onto an all aluminum small block, as opposed to iron block which is the standard in NASCAR. Don’t forget about the LT5 small block either, if memory serves, that was an aluminum ‘cammer’ small block from the previous decade. Guess it’s not just push rods we have to combat imports with, huh Sarge?

Maybe we should shift the topic back to the ‘bad boy’ Toyota Tundra — And the severe frame “flex/weakness” problem that plagues it.

(add the http: to this link)


As far as where I reside, I could care less if your a military recruiter or not. If in fact you where privy to any personal info of mine (Hypothetically) and attempted to divulge any such info over something as idiotic as a blog debate — When it comes down to endangering not only myself, but those close to me (even hypothetically speaking) — You better be army strong!

: )

April 10, 2007 at 6:27 pm
(1008) Southern Girl says:


not everybody on here that supports toyota or japanese cars are the same people using differeing names. i havent been on because i have a life – im studying for my chemistry degree in college.

I suggest that you find something else to do also cuz it seems as though that this entire forum has taken over your life.


April 10, 2007 at 7:39 pm
(1009) Southern Man says:

Southern Girl?
You would be a Toyota fan. The lower case spelling shows it.

Toyota Blows!!

April 10, 2007 at 9:26 pm
(1010) Todd W says:

From Jayski’s –

Michael Waltrip Charged After Vehicle Accident Saturday: #55-Michael Waltrip is charged with reckless driving and failure to report an accident after a crash on Molly’s Backbone Road in Catawba County. The Highway Patrol says Waltrip was driving about 70 miles per hour in the 55 mile-per-hour zone when he went off the right side of the road in a curve around 1:50 a.m. Saturday. His car then traveled back across the pavement and off the left side of the roadway, sliding sideways and striking a utility pole as it overturned. The car then rolled over and came to a rest on its side. Troopers said a witness saw Waltrip crawl out of the vehicle and leave the scene. When a trooper went to his home around 2:30 a.m. no one was there, but when he went back at 8 p.m. he found Waltrip, who admitted he’d fallen asleep at the wheel. Waltrip, with scratches on his face and some deep cuts on his finger, spoke with Eyewitness News about the crash. He said he was on his way home to Sherill’s Ford from Charlotte. “I was almost home. I relaxed a little bit and ran off the road,” he explained. “I woke up with gravel hitting the car and I tried to correct but it was too late. The seasoned driver says he instinctively got out of his car, and then decided to walk home because he often runs the route and was only a mile away. Waltrip will be in court in Newton on May 14.(WSOCTV.com)(4-10-2007)

There you have it…

Further proof of one of the Toyota Camry’s major off track design flaws — It’s such a boring sedan to drive; that you will literally be prone to losing consciousness behind the wheel.

April 10, 2007 at 9:35 pm
(1011) Toy Engines says:

Ah, bad wording.

Toy Engines: Some people just don’t get it!
(The most famous and successful Toyota Race engine- the 503E was used in Toyota’s Triumphant Championship seasons in IMSA GTO / GTP, Pikes Peak, Le Mans, and in the mid-90s Japan Touring Cup Championship. It is important to note that the 16 valve cylinder head layout from the 152E engine and the T block crankshaft saddle design were used as design base for this ultimate Toyota 4 cylinder Turbocharged race engine. The 503E represented the most powerful 4 cylinders in competition history developing over 1000HP in qualifying tune, 800HP for sprint races, and 600 for endurance events).

And don’t forget to check the specs on this one:

(RVX-07 Technical Specifications
Designation: RVX-07
Number of cylinders: 8
Capacity: 2398cc
Horsepower: Approximately 740bhp
Revolutions: Maximum 19,000rpm, as required by FIA rules.
Valve actuation: Pneumatic
Throttle actuation: Hydraulic
Spark Plugs: DENSO
Fuel: Esso
Lubricants: Esso)

So Todd, we can know see the real Todd! For what all that you have said. For what all that you have done. For all of those voices in your head that we have endured through here, whomever this person is, surely left you cold, wet and naive. In addition, we now see Todd has so many blog Ids, we can no longer count them. But one thing is certain, the tone will always be traceable, as will the content.

That’s 1,000 horsepower from a 4 cylinder engine folks. 740 BHP for a F-1 car, as limited by FIA rules.

You don’t have to like Toyota.
You don’t have to support Toyota.
You can cuss and moan all you want about Toyota.

Just remember this thou. RESPECT!

April 10, 2007 at 10:02 pm
(1012) Not A #55 Fan says:

ROFLMAO, Good Post Todd. “Thumbs Up”!

“I’m so embarrassed about the accident”.


Just think, if he’d been in an old 70 chevy jalopy doing 70 in a 55 on that road, he would not have walked away! Just goes to show how well built that car is Todd! Jokes back on you! BWA_HA_HA_HA!

April 10, 2007 at 10:47 pm
(1013) NE Man says:

Todd, how is that a design flaw? Waltrip is just an idiot. That doesnt even involve NASCAR, except that hes a driver. It doesnt mention Toyota. So hey, when you get back on topic let me know.

April 10, 2007 at 10:57 pm
(1014) Southern Girl says:

Southern Man,

you had nothing else to make fun of other than my spelling errors of Toyota and Japanese. Does that make you happy now?

I agree with NE Man, what does Michael Waltrip have to do with this? He’s just a driver. That’s it!

Let’s get back on topic now … please?

April 10, 2007 at 11:00 pm
(1015) TOY yo TA says:

Toyota does not ruin nascar because it is a good competitor in the sport.

enough said.

April 11, 2007 at 12:11 am
(1016) The Aetheist says:

Well hello ToddW, what’s up dude?

I drew the short straw, so I’m here for just a informative moment.

You are close, but yet not close enough.

You see, there were five of us, WWE tag-teaming you. You see, we collaborated after you presented yourself to be such an inspirational target. We just could not resist therefore, we joined forces through a chat room and we copy, pasted, and printed all of your and our postings. Then each one of us picked a night, sometimes we teamed you during the week, and on occasion, we shared you on the weekends as well. Credit due to your theory, that is why when one would fade, another would pick up? You got the concept, however, it was five people as opposed to just me. If I was as good as you claimed, I would be on stage at the Oscars, Grammys, and whatever else getting the screen award.

Three people were here, but not part of the psych ToddW group. NE Man, MattC, and the recruiter fellow, were not part of our group. You know me, and yes that handle is spelled wrong (for a reason). The rest may or may not id themselves.

Sometimes we did use the same id. If one were to have ‘all’ of the post’, you would be able to see the differences in persona, attitude, and articulated writings. Toyota rules is a technical writer (no-brainer there), and has a very unique way of expressing himself, he is normally calm to mild, and he was the hardest to fill in for.

You need a life Dude. How many hours of sleep have you missed? What about work? You must be zombified by now.

I asked some old friends to drop in, and some friends of friends, and some of their friends. Those are the one liners and such. When a Marine, and a senior Non-Commissioned Officer type at that identifies himself, show some respect dude. His name is not Covington, his name is either “Gunny” or GySGT! Just as written in his signature block! I do believe you even liked his post!

I know you will not read this, but somebody will.

If you have taken anything from me, you should at least read this last forthcoming paragraph.

Todd, Dude, when people id themselves as vets, and if you even think about me at the same instance, remember this. I, and they are vets. We all have different stories, and loss of life within our group. That is one thing you should never have to experience. But know this, if you mock a vet who has identified himself as such, take it for face value. I did lose a very close comrade on 14 MAY 2006, and he was in an M1114, which is an Up-Armored AM General POS (Public Opinion Statement vehicle). It is our government that has our boys in those vehicles that should be in tanks, brads, or armored plated heavy wheels. Not a steel plated “mail jeep”.

If nothing else, at least read those few lines just above this.

It’s been fun, heck, it was hilarious, especially keeping you up all through the odd hours of the night.


April 11, 2007 at 12:21 am
(1017) NASCAR Fan says:

Todd, WWE in the house dawg! You know, NASCAR is like that!

Mike, from St. Louis

April 11, 2007 at 12:23 am
(1018) Todd W says:

Just think, if he’d been in an old 70 chevy jalopy doing 70 in a 55 on that road, he would not have walked away! Just goes to show how well built that car is Todd!”

Oh I don’t know, just think if he’d been in an old 70 Z/28 on that road — perhaps it would have ‘corrected’ him back onto the road as one would expect, let alone not wind up on it’s roof!. After all, the guy is a veteran stock driver. Toyota is outright destroying Mikey’s life!

I see you’ve made up yet another name ‘Aehtiest’…and then finally used your original. ha ha ha

Oh that makes everyone believe you were gone the entire time. : )

What’s that you’re linking a few posts up there under one of you most recent blog ID’s? Toyota’s F1 engine? What does that prove Aethiest? How does that compare to NASCAR? Do you know the difference between an F1 car and a ‘NASCAR’ Aetheist? The NASCAR handles like a full size wagon pulling a tailor compared to an F1 car — it’s an entirely different topic altogether.

You are aware at this point in the game that NASCAR mandates iron block, push rod engines of 358 ci. In other words, the age old, blue collar ‘American’ small block. That engine there is an exotic, DOHC, all aluminum, ‘F1′ engine that figures out to about something under 150 ci. I wonder what the bore and stroke is Aethiest? The rotating mass???


Is this a DOHC thing again? Take Roger Penske (NASCAR team owner) he helped Diamler design a push rod for the Indy 500 in 94. Guess what? It not only dominated the race, it won the race. Do you know how long that engine dominated F1 for Aethiest? Just that race, because F1 banned it immediately after. Fact is, an OHV engine is more compact, and less complicated. Let alone, domestics are more than capable of entering F1 with a comparable engine — more importantly…One that isn’t a complete rip off in design!

What was that analogy of yours again???

The more moving parts; the less chance of failure? That was good : )

Please, in your next post pretend to be the ‘drill instructor’ again. I love how you get ‘into’ character when it comes to your various blog aliases.

April 11, 2007 at 12:24 am
(1019) Toyota rules says:

Fact: Todd needs some sleep.
Fact: The psych ToddW group was hilarious.
Fallacy: Todd thought it was just ‘The Aetheist’ Funny man.

Arthur from Denver, CO.

April 11, 2007 at 12:32 am
(1020) Nightie Night Todd says:

Yo homie, get a life.

Shelly, Seattle’s “finest”

April 11, 2007 at 12:39 am
(1021) Todd W says:

Hey Aethiest, now that you’re back…I’ve been dying to know….

How do you figure the ‘all original’ 67 Shelby GT350 in your uncles barn has a big block 390 sitting in it????

…and don’t try and back pedal and say….”uh…well, it has a 390 in it now”

Oh I don’t think so Aethiest, because you see we are left with the obvious here –

a. — Nobody in their right mind would deface a legitimate GT350 in order to dump in a common 390.

b. — Your initial claim was that it was ‘all original’…remember??? Just like the superbird, and other Mustang with the NASCAR spec ‘cammer’

Couldn’t be that you are lying, just like making up the multiple blog ID’s now could it? Just like these last ones above???

Way to ‘win’ a blog debate there Aethiest. Give yourself a big old pat on the back their Sgt.

: )

April 11, 2007 at 8:53 am
(1022) Ramon, The Big says:

No more dumber than some snot-nosed playstation player claiming he has a big bad chevy that he swapped the big bad motor out of.

What was it a 400 something?

And you did what?

Put a small block 225 engine in it?

What is that, 225 hp / old sled = slow mule?

Heck, my Supra would smoke that like a cheap cigar!

Wanna go titles?

Two runs. One at the strip, and I’ll spot you two full phat lengths.

Then>>>>We go street rally down by the docks.

Winner takes all, loser drags his sorry behind home!

I will tell you before you start smacking off at the lips here. I’m pushing over 400hp with a Toy DOHC V6 in my ride, plus ‘NOS’, for a total of 475! Yes, that’s with a cold plumber, side oiled front access cooler, slightly tweaked .03s tenths lag drag time, Turbo.

And No to your cheap rip, IT’s ‘more moving parts, less prone to destruction’. If you are gonna copy-cat somebodies phrase, at least get it right!

And you have it backwards. NASCAR told Toyota they could not use their own engines, that’s why they HAD to build a ‘replica’ from an antique down at the museum!

And finally, your shallow base is exposed again. You think IRL and F1 are the same, how sweet is that! Easy assumption there on your part. Everybody knows IRL races, well IRL. And Evrybody knows F1 is the premeir motorsports of them all and SADLY, the USA does not have a team!

April 11, 2007 at 12:19 pm
(1023) Todd W says:

“I will tell you before you start smacking off at the lips here. I’m pushing over 400hp with a Toy DOHC V6 in my ride, plus ‘NOS’, for a total of 475!”….
475 horse with a turbo and some giggle gas??? That’s supposed to spook any 68 to 72 GM ‘A’ body owner? Follow this, my car is a documented 70 SS Chevelle. Unlike your ‘toy’ that particular model doesn’t depreciate yearly. In fact just the opposite — it climbs in value every year. So I’m not falling all over myself to hack into the thing too much, just to play ‘street hero’. There’s too many Malibu’s out there still for that.

475 hp?? For example, take any ‘small block’ 327 — 4 bolt, flat tops, cam, even with iron ‘power pack’ heads you have 3 and a half horse…For pretty darn cheap, delivered to you in a crate. That’s a ‘budget’ crate small block. Seventeen hundred bucks equals out to a complete ‘bolt on’ Weiand ’142′ under hood centrifugal — that’s over 500 horse right there with minimal cash and effort — In effect, not even trying!

Personally I wouldn’t go that route, but it just proves the point. Those ‘old sleds’ were designed for such things toy boy, and even with a small 327 — They don’t require some ‘power shot’ system, and a turbo to top 500 horse. The difference from me having 700 horse as opposed to 360 under my hood is a direct bolt in motor swap requiring a handful of bolts to remove in order to achieve it….in less than a few hours. I’m not impressed!

“And No to your cheap rip, IT’s ‘more moving parts, less prone to destruction’. If you are gonna copy-cat some bodies phrase, at least get it right!”

Whatever! I mean, that makes just about as much sense really now doesn’t it? : ) Must be you again ‘Aetheist’ who else would defend such stupidity as that in the first place? Let alone ‘clarify’ the original wording of it all lol

And you have it backwards. NASCAR told Toyota they could not use their own engines, that’s why they HAD to build a ‘replica’

Who said they ‘HAD to? NASCAR told Chrysler. and Ford they couldn’t run certain motors at one point in time as well. You know what they did? They withdrew, certainly didn’t ‘copy’

“You think IRL and F1 are the same?”

Well, it’s not as if I’m comparing either to NASCAR now is it? A lot more similar as opposed to comparing either cart racers to NASCAR.

“SADLY, the USA does not have a team!”

So let’s compare it to NASCAR some more then!!!

April 11, 2007 at 12:51 pm
(1024) Ramon, The Big says:

Naw, dawg. I’m Ramon, hint the blog ID. “The Aethiest” was just the ring leader. He planned out our departure last week, then that other cat arrived on the scene so he held off to see how that played out. Then he dropped his toy-with-ya later last night. I don’t think he will be back anytime soon, his old man is not doing well.

That was me that made that comment while covering for Arthur! It’s my words, and I’ll stick with it! More moving parts. You know, 4 camshatfs as opposed to one. 4 Valves per cylinder as compared to two, etc.. However, no push-rod clatter, bending, breaking, un-seating. No additional weight to length issues, as well as the lack of valve timing / floating issues. Higher RPMs, with a longer bandwidth, thats why they do the juice so well!

Again you speak of $2,000 plus $$$$ for a little bit of ponies. I have $1,100 in the motor, and another $250 in “giggle juice”, for close to 500 HP.

IF, I would had ordered the ‘comp’ motor, things would be different. First that motor is not legal here because of emissions, which you do not need, which is why I think you run that car. I’m cool with that. But, that motor is available, but is close to $3,000. To much $$ for my cheap self. For that, I get ‘comp’ rated build, and 535 everyday ponies, with no “giggle juice”. If you want it thou, that’s another $1000-$1150 because it’s the direct inject, not the bolt on kit. That wet kit is rated at another 200 ponies, for a total of 735 “giggle juiced” HP. But in a lighter, but more weight balanced ride.

I don’t bling it, per se. The only real things the trained eye would see are the intercooler behind the grill, and the twin piped dual exhaust, with a low V6 growl, as opposed to those stoopid bus muffler hondas! It has a standard Silver paint, with black highlights, no “street racer” markings that have become ever so popular.

I love cars, and engines. I can relate to your writings, but I have a different attitude.

April 11, 2007 at 3:37 pm
(1025) Todd W says:

You obviously do have an entirely different attitude than me.
I’m not a ‘dawg’, and more importantly, I’m not pretending to be some sort of ‘dawg’ — I don’t strive to modify my own linguistics in attempt for others to perceive me as some ‘hip’ stereotype. As far as ‘Arthur’ goes — why should you have to cover for anybody? I’m not hiding behind blog ID’s here. I’m not claiming I have a 454 in my Chevelle as opposed to a 327 at the moment — I feel no need to. Unlike you and ‘Arthur’ for whatever reason. Is it that much of a challenge to debate a particular topic using one blog ID?

As far as DOHC motors go, sure they can achieve higher rpm. But let’s put it all into perspective here (especially when figuring in straight line acceleration). What those DOHC V6′s lack is sheer cubes compared to a push rod — displacement. Here’s a phrase that works –

‘There is no replacement for…”

as opposed to

‘More moving parts equals out to less chance of failure.’

Let’s face it, That’s 16 times the chance of sucking a valve or some other calamity occurring right there. Take any 400 horse, 4 bolt main small block turning 6 thousand rpm vs some 400 horse DOHC Toyota turning 8 thousand rpm — Which motor is being stressed more? Not to mention, if you want to delve into ‘street performance’ (the average stop light is a bit shy of 1320 feet)…Small block OHV’s are more than capable of winding high enough from stop light to stoplight — that’s just fact.

Even if you did have a 475 horse Supra, calling out to Chevelle owners to race for ‘pinks’ is asinine.You can turbo a 30 year old small block like anything else….And great point you make there about options. The modern day small block (even the ‘cammer’ LT5) was designed to be a direct bolt up to these ‘old sleds’)

April 11, 2007 at 6:34 pm
(1026) Ramon, The Big says:

Such a waste, dawg.
Ya’ know? Such a waste.

So since, in your simpleton world things are only going to be as you can see through one channel, then you have only one channel to observe from.

You think I am “The Aetheist”? I’ll take that as a compliment. For you have no idea what type of person he is. He has done a lot for young Marines, and well, heck, for young people in general. I can say if it were not for him, I would not be where I am today. More than likely I’d be either 6 feet under, in jail, or a rubber room. But, now, I have skills.

I’m a certified welder, and I have an AA in business administration, I’m going to open my own shop this year!

I’m trying to clean my act up, and I have moved from my old digs to a better section.

But, there will always be ignorant people around, and it won’t take much to snap me back into my past, but I have seen better.

I sure you can read, Arthur, is in Denver, I’m in Cali. We are not related in any sense that you can understand, but we are brothers for life, even thou he was a squid! But again, ignorance can prevail in many, and lasts longer in others.

That’s right dawg, 40 year ago that boat anchor was pulling whatever it was you said.

Today, Toys are doing it! Don’t that just heat your backside!

Late Dawg!

April 11, 2007 at 8:34 pm
(1027) Todd W says:

You know, 600 posts ago, I thought I was merely participating in a NASCAR blog. Instead, I’m somehow thrust into a sprawling, elaborate, and continually unfolding ‘cyber’ drama.

One that involves three separate individuals supposedly –

‘Arthur’ — a ‘squid’

The ‘Aethiest’ — Supposedly ‘seasoned’ combat veteran, and guidance ‘role model’ for throngs of troubled young men everywhere. Yet, is prone for whatever reason to tell outright lies in internet blogs regarding exotic ‘muscle cars’ out in his barn. Let alone, involve himself in unnecessary blog tactics just to debate stock car racing.

‘Ramon’ — Rebellious, and infamous hustler slash street racer. undefeated (and legend to many no doubt) –behind the wheel of his low slung, silver Supra, with just the right touch of black highlight mixed in to compliment his desperado persona. Ramon was diverted from a life of hardcore criminal activity, and nurtured under the fathering wing of the ‘Aethiest’.

Will the ‘tough love’ of the ‘Aethiest’ win out over the flashy cars, fast money, and seedy lifestyle that this troubled, but talented young man plunges himself into in the exciting underworld that is playground to the ‘import’ street racer?

Sounds literally like another sequel to the ‘Fast and the furious’ if you ask me Ramon! : )

April 12, 2007 at 7:49 pm
(1028) Phil Bickel says:

Wow, a lot of hate for a company that pays me 85K a year to support my family, provides about 400,000 good paying jobs for other Americans, and is listed on the NY Stock Exchange.

I bet if you look in the average 401K retirement plan, the average American owns a good chunk of it too. And returned over 50% to it’s investors last year.

As for NASCAR, A Camry is more of a American Car than a Fusion or an Impala.

Built in the midst of the Central Kentucky Horse Farmland, with motors built in West “by God” Virginia, and “Sweet Home” Alabama. The trannies are built in Tarheel Country, as are the race cars. The electronics are assembled by Okies.

I’ve got nothing against Mexicans, I’d just prefer they not build my cars, or take my job.

If you concerned about those jobs in Detriot, and Cleveland, tell them to work on that Monday-Friday problem they’ve had for the last forty years.

You know don’t buy a car built on a Friday or a Monday, over bfore ten in the morning or after three in the afternoon, etc. etc.

GO Bucks!

April 13, 2007 at 6:51 am
(1029) Mr. Bling says:

That’s what I’m saying!
Why did you wait so long to make your appearance?

I don’t drive one, but I have 10,000 shares of your stock. Bling-Bling!

With everyday common folks buying your gas savers, then receiving a annual US TAX Break to boot, then add in the cost-to-savings ratio at the pump, they must know something! I know something too! I’m gonna be a millionaire before 30!

Go America, buy Toyota!

April 14, 2007 at 9:37 am

Ramon the big,
Didn’t you mention you have a Supra? will tell you before you start smacking off at the lips here. I’m pushing over 400hp with a Toy DOHC V6 in my ride, plus ‘NOS’, for a total of 475! Yes, that’s with a cold plumber, side oiled front access cooler, slightly tweaked .03s tenths lag drag time, Turbo.
Well, First of all a Supra is an inline 6 not a V6, and I only know that because I smoked one with a Mustang about 5 years ago, and he was crying poor 6cyl me, all the way home.
All you guys, ToddW too (not picking on you!), Can stuff horse power where it don’t matter. American V8s make TORQUE! Since when has HP meant anything, that 700hp DOHC 4 popper turning 19,000 rpm like some kid was bragging about, Do you know thats only like 200 lb-ft of torque? A John Deere tractor built in 1938 has that much torque. RPMxTorque/5252 is horsepower.
A standard Semi-Tractor has 600hp @ 1900rpm but does that matter? no the fact that it has 2500+ lb-ft of torque @1400 rpm is what gets the job done.
Really, thou(gh) “for those who speak english as thier first language” This debate has went every where, And I too have been guilty of helping it get off subject. But really I think Toyota will either kill NASCAR, or it will change the base of its watchers. I will be honest I loved watching the Indy 500 when it was Ford Cosworths, Chevrolets, and Buick V6s, With Turbos, with pushrods or even the odd ball Diesel!
But when Indy changed so did I, to be honest, NASCAR with Toy, and the C.O.T. It will lose the older fans, and possibly gain the younger less educated crowd.

April 14, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(1031) Todd W says:

Consider this –

Ramon claims to have an all out purpose built Supra that turns mid 11′s while weighing 2750 lbs. This is with an all aluminum DOCH V6 that is generating 400 horsepower. (475 with nitro shot)

First comparison —


10 seconds flat,.That’s without a twin turbo setup, plus a factory stock block that’s twenty years old. 3600 pound car with a factory iron block, push rod.

So my question to Raymond would be, why is your performance built ‘silent hunter’ that has an all aluminum crate V6, and turbo setup only generating ’400 raw’ horse power? Especially when this Buick is generating over 700 without the aid of nitrous, or a twin turbo for that matter either?

Shouldn’t your car be generating more power, and turning in faster times Ramon? Lets compare again, you have an all aluminum DOHC V6 as compared to that stock iron push rod V6 in that Buick. Plus that Buick outweighs your car by close to 900 pounds!

Explain that one to us Ramon.

Ramon writes –

“You know, when NASCAR allowed cars that were no longer production available, thats when I gave up”

Ramon, it’s been a looong time since NASCAR ran production only cars. I guess you ‘gave up’ on NASCAR before you were born then.

April 15, 2007 at 9:43 am
(1032) Bow Tie Redneck says:

My opinion, and that of ALL of my American friends, is that Toyota has taken the ‘NA’ out of NASCAR. If an automaker didn’t have cars running moonshine in the 30′s 40′s and 50′s, they have NO business in a sport that was bred from there.If you take away American fans from a Genuine American Sport like NASCAR, it is no longer an American Sport. I would like to personally thank NASCAR for freeing up my Sundays (and the occasional Saturday) For a NASCAR driver to drive a Japanese Car instead of an American Car is as bad as coming out of the closet and admitting you’re queer.
So watch your “new and improved” NASCAR, drink your Tsing Tao Beer, and remember Pearl Harbour.

April 15, 2007 at 5:55 pm
(1033) Todd W says:


So now Ramon, you’re claiming this was a ‘budget’ build up of some sort…and 475 hp ‘juiced’ is some sort of jaw dropping feat. Look at that Buick again ‘dawg’. That’s a budget build as well!

The block and heads are factory, let alone cast iron….Plus at 20 yrs old — more than likely older than you are! Just a simple cam swap and turbo, pretty budget ‘Ramo-dawg’

You write –

“and has high performance STREET tires on it.
You do the rest dawg!”

No, you do the math ‘dawg’. That Buick isn’t running on slicks, it’s running on quote –

“Front M/T Sportsman 26×7.50R15, Rear M/T E.T Streets”

Now if that ‘feller’ in that Buick went with the ‘juice’ – he’d be pushing double the power of your ‘Toy’ — ‘dawg’

Guess if you had used your ‘skillz’ on a similar Buick — you might have something to brag about….Huh? — ‘dawg’

ROFLMAO X infiniti!!!

April 15, 2007 at 7:49 pm
(1034) Todd W says:

Hey Ramo-dawg,

I got bored so I followed the link to your ‘inspiration’

ha ha ha

‘Worlds fastest Supra’ — 8.90 @ 163 mph.

What a joke, I’ve seen junk iron headed big blocks, with a holly dominator bolted on that cost as much as the rest of the engine turn in similar times.

Here’s some real inspiration for you ‘dawg’ –


Here’s a direct quote out of that link about that two decade old Buick –

In December ’94, the D’Alessandro/Kenne Bell Single Turbo Stage 1 Buick made history; the first Single Turbo “street” Stage 1 Buick to run in the 7′s (7.99/167.25) – a record that has never been broken.

That unlike the ‘worlds fastest Supra’ isn’t even running a twin turbo ‘dawg’. Anybody that knows anything knows when it comes to a turbo-charged V6 for straight line acceleration — Buick is the way to go. Watch out for those two decade old Buicks next time you’re hustling for cash on the roadside in your ‘Top dawg Supra’ .

ha ha ha

April 15, 2007 at 7:50 pm
(1035) Ramon, The Big says:

What dawg? Your not laughing now are you!

Yea’ll dawg, it makes my day for dayz like this! Especially since you are what, three-four days older than me!! 12 June 81, joined the Corps in 00, Honorably discharged in 04, and went to work here at the docks in 05.

I grew out of the play station phase when I spent my time in the Corps dawg. That’s where we differ, ’cause you still there in video land!

Yes, that is a Toy.
With a Aluminum motor. That just burns your backside don’t it dawg!
It must, just from you last post.

Com’on dawg, did you check this video out?

I know your macho, white boy, red blood is boiling right now!
You can’t stand it, can ya dawg?

B’s for real dawg! That’s a Toy car, with an aluminum motor in it; doing what you and your BB bow tie cannot do!

As for the Buick? That’s what its all about dawg! A smaller motor putting to you! I like that last picture.

“HAHAHAH You lost to a V6″!!!
That’s it dawg! Now stop drooling all over yourself! I’m loving it!

One mo’ for ya dawg!

Now go take a cold shower before you burn up!

Now I’m ROFLMAO x Infin!!!!

April 16, 2007 at 12:40 am
(1036) Boston T. Party says:

Toyota counts all of its “sales” related employees in the numbers that it sites for “American workers.” Also, yes, they are employing Americans, but at nowhere near the benefits of a GM or Ford. As long as we continue to buy these cars, they will continue to replace the American makers and force them to use foreign labor. Thing is, the jobs they are bringing us are $7 an hour assembly jobs so that they can claim their cars are American. And now their reliability is decreasing. They took over the market and now they are going to sell you cheaper crap because they are only half as accountable as an American company. Ask any mechanic – the brand new Toyotas and Hondas have all kinds of problems. But you did it, didn’t you, just because you thought you would look like a “redneck” for driving a Ford. American cars went through a bad period in the 80s, but noone can deny that at one time they were the greatest cars in the world. Many late 90s to present American cars are as reliable or more so than the Japanese models. Also, what is funny, is that the pro-Japanese crowd is simply spouting what the PR departments of the Japanese makers are telling them. But how much of it is true?? Fords are built in Mexico – some of them are – but corporate profits of Ford Motor are in the US. Americans working for Toyota are making $7 an hour and sending the other $100 billion back to Japan. Clever, you all, clever. Well, just rest assured in this, Toyota’s debut in Nascar made them look ridiculous.

April 16, 2007 at 1:43 am
(1037) Todd W says:

Great points. Anybody should be able to see that the only reason Toyota is assembling cars here is so they can claim that they are somehow ‘made in America’. Fact is, they imported 37 percent more cars from Japan in 2006 than they did in 2005.

You raise a good point too with “greatest cars” in the world. Even in the mid sixties domestics had already introduced the front wheel drive to the mass market. The 66 Olds Toronado (Motor trend car of the year for 66) — and it had character (not to mention a 455 big block)….They all did.

What the imports, Arab oil embargos, and lobbyists like Ralph Nader brought forth was the compact ‘cookie cutter’. The throw away compact. What a sad sight when misguided ‘dawgs’ interpret these imports as some sort of ‘grass roots’ hot rod.

Despite it all I think what comes out of Detroit looks more and more impressive each year. As with next years Challenger — I haven’t looked forward to seeing such a domestic model since the forth gen Camaro debuted in 93. I still remember the commercials for that, with a Hendrix riff going on in the back ground. Plus, any Camaro fan knew it was essentially a Corvette with four seats, slightly de-tuned LT1 Corvette motor. Every police force around the country sure did — scores of Camaro’s patrolling the interstate highways over night.

The general American new car buyer nowadays doesn’t even know how to spell Camaro. They know how to spell ‘Camry’ though because it’s been beat into their heads through relentless marketing. Who really is surprised? Look at the stupidity that Americans gravitate towards nowadays — American idol!!

Just like with Toyota — not because it is entertaining (or a superior auto) — simply because corporate marketing tells them it’s entertaining.

April 16, 2007 at 6:19 am
(1038) Get Wise says:

Ramon, The Big I worked as a buyer at a scap yard in Louisville Ky and i know what that trash is made from and if they updated the crash test standards you would too. Be real and try and be american and support America bye bye

April 16, 2007 at 5:14 pm
(1039) Eldora!! says:

Yo ramin.
Eldora is a race track owned by Tony Stewart and built in 1954.Its a place were real racecars go. Heck look it up you might even like it!!
Na, no hate here…..Later!!

April 16, 2007 at 6:23 pm
(1040) Hanz says:

Good heavens guys, it seems that the average Joe in the US has much more in common with us Afrikaners (Boers) than you could ever imagine !! Cars, racism, isolationism, you name it…….
South Africa was big into Ford and Chev until the companies decided to pull out. Toyota (local manufacturer, and in pre 1994 days locally owned) became the household favourite (I can hear the leftists cringe now :-) )
Cadillac is only now returning with their BLS and according to local reviews, its a good car. Chrysler returned when it was bought by Daimler Benz and became Daimler Chrysler.

If the big American auto makers want to survive they must do what every other car manufacturer does to compete globally. They must start looking beyond their borders at the requirements of the global markets. The standard American car is NOT popular in South Africa simply because of its size, fuel consumption etc.
The cars that comes from the USA are just too big ! Did not fit into standard parking spaces etc. Yes, the fuel crises hit us badly in terms of engine size. Most of us simply cannot afford petrol (gasoline) of these behemoths.
Another complaint is that the roadholding was/is crap. Our speed limit on national highways are 120kilometers per hour (74mph), that’s if we stick to the speed limit 87 mph is more average, and the American cars just don’t handle as well as the typical European ( I personally hate Japanese cars).
Ford UK does make some sensible cars that sells reasonably well in South Africa (Focus, Mondeo) and have a good reputation.
The Chrysler Neon was a bit of a flop locally but the new Dodge Caliber is ideal for our market. Well made, sensible engine size (1.8 liter and 2liter in our market) and sensible size.

The point is, I can understand the national fervor for keeping the NASCAR American. National pride does not always have to make sense. But if you want to complain about Americans losing jobs, the arguments you are using are maybe just too simplistic.
Have a great year, and if your only big headache this year is the fact that Toyota is competing in the NASCAR series, consider yourself very lucky that you live in such a great country.

April 16, 2007 at 7:57 pm
(1041) Todd W says:

The standard American car is NOT popular in South Africa simply because of its size, fuel consumption etc.

Well, that’s because it is an ‘American’ car. Ford for example is playing to the global market in Europe and China even. First and foremost, domestic manufacturers should aim to please domestic buyers. As far as the handling of American cars go; they are right up there with mid level imports. The Mustang has an independent rear suspension, drivers assist in most models….If you can’t handle an American car with such driver aids — maybe you should look to your own limitations as a driver.

Hell, I can parallel park an early seventies full size without breaking a sweat. Try slipping behind the wheel of some early seventies full size, with no drivers assist, drum brakes, no power steering, Saginaw manual, etc. Odds are a month or two at the wheel of that, and your driving skills will improve considerably, because your more in tune with the car itself. In effect; you have to literally drive the car more.

A far as gas goes, I have to run premium at the pump — three bucks a gallon. I’m not rich, would like to see lower figures…But when it comes to an extra 60 bucks a month to drive a legitimate American muscle car vs some dreary Saab…Where do I sign up?

April 16, 2007 at 9:34 pm
(1042) Ryan R. says:

I have no problem with toyota entering however they were able to design a motor that has all the good attributes of all the 3M cars and none of the bad however I blame nascar for that allowing them to run ragged with their freshly new motor that looks nothing like the one in their product line inside and out.

April 16, 2007 at 9:37 pm
(1043) Ryan R. says:

So much for running the finished products equally

April 16, 2007 at 9:48 pm
(1044) I Hate Ford says:

Good point Ryan.
Glad to see another here has the same view as me. Why can Ford run a NASCAR RWD V8, yet the Fusion down to the dealer is crap?
Same with yoyos, except only thing running 8 there is that copied over truck.

April 16, 2007 at 10:24 pm
(1045) Todd W says:

Look at it like this, every car on the track including the Toyota is running a Ford 9 in rear end. You can order a Ford small block of exact same dimension and build as what’s under the hood of the track Fusion with your mouse right now.

Toyota has offered nothing to NASCAR as far as traditional design goes. Plus, even if you wound up with the Toyota OHV NASCAR spec engine, in a crate on your door step — it wouldn’t fit into any existing Toyota on the planet right now.

Big difference.

April 17, 2007 at 7:30 am
(1046) I Hate Fords says:

Interesting point Todd.
Another example of non-pure finished products. I have not checked, but I’m willing to wager that most ‘finished’ GM products run a GM rear end.

I wonder if that motor could be “tool timed” to my bush hawg? Then again, it’d need to be fixed or repaired daily, no thanks!

April 17, 2007 at 1:18 pm
(1047) Larry says:

Toyota doesn’t bother me as much as NASCAR changing rules every time a wealthy owner wants something. NASCAR also adjusts it’s rulings by “who” commits the foul. No way someone who cheats in the first race of a season should be able to win the Cup!

April 17, 2007 at 2:11 pm
(1048) Resident New Yorker says:

Why so much hate pride man?

To err is human, to flat out lie is fraud.

Read, and get your facts straight. We can dislike cars in NASCAR, but people are different:

“So on that day, I began to write what eventually would become a book, Cheer to New York City – 9/11 as Witnessed by the Chairman of the Japanese American Association of New York. The Japanese American Association (JAA) of New York is a non-profit organization founded in 1907 that is dedicated to helping New York’s Japanese community.

Soon after 9/11, on September 17th, JAA members launched a campaign to raise funds for the Twin Towers Victim’s Fund, headed by former New York Mayor Giuliani. I should note that the majority of JAA’s members are not rich. Many hold Green Cards and work as employees in restaurants and other businesses. When we announced the campaign, we hoped to be able to reach our goal of $50,000 by our closing date, October 30th. But we surprised ourselves and raised $525,000!

This campaign powerfully demonstrated the Japanese community’s solidarity, respect and sincere affection for America as expressed in a full-page ad in The New York Times, placed by the Japanese Chamber of Commerce and The Nippon Club on September 24th. It was the only such ad taken out by nationals of another country, and spoke for all of us Japanese when it emphasized: “We are proud of your spirit and resilience… Know that you are not alone… We stand with you.”

No other nation or national groups donated as much money as Japan and the resident Japanese and Japanese American communities in America. The Government of Japan contributed $5 million dollars to New York City and $5 million to the State of New York. Private sources, including corporations, gave millions more. One Japanese couple, grateful for American hospitality and the special support given their children by their local school and community, sold their former home in New Jersey and donated the entire proceeds – $380,000 – to help the families of the victims”.

April 17, 2007 at 6:57 pm
(1049) Eldora!! says:

Good print Kentucky proud!!
Do you think New Yorker picked up a shovel and helped remove debre or donate his time and labor to a soup kitchen? Or is he trying to convince all he is a TRUE American through someone else checkbook?

April 17, 2007 at 9:10 pm
(1050) Resident New Yorker says:

I take pride in all that I do, it may not be measurable in saintly deeds, but it is more than the welfare recipient awaiting ‘payday’.

Come on down to 44 Second Ave every even Saturday between 11:00 and 2:00, I’ll be glad to give you a tour after my volunteer duty.

What truly amazes me is how shallow some people are, then when informed with real, and contradicting data, more and more obtuse people jump in. I’m sure ‘pride’ was unaware of these events, and probably thought nothing of it. However, it is how it was presented that bothers me. In hindsight my response could have been smother as well, but I failed to commit enough time for the response.

If you or ‘pride’ or any others have a problem with a people, in so much as you are willing to type a blatant disregard against them, then surely the people of this nation have lost their true values, morals, and understanding of what my ancestors did to create this nation 230 some odd plus years ago. If you people do represent a sampling of just the South, then that is understandable, but if this is a national epidemic then we are surely smitten to parish within our own profits of democracy. Furthermore, if this is so much the current beliefs, then maybe a call to France is in order, for surely we have lost the meaning of, and faith to The Statue of Liberty.

Toyota in NASCAR is a day that should not have happened, nor was 9/11. However, if the $10+ million dollars Japan donated allowed them an entrance, then a refund might not be out of the question, do you think?

April 17, 2007 at 9:40 pm
(1051) jerry guthrie says:

nascar steck,?? no i like foreign cars or people, i am a race fan sends 1959 my drive is david p#21,? no i do not like toytoa being here but nascar loves money,and i don’t like mexican drives are to wheel rider comeing in what is going to put out the drives that is in nascar now.ford is back up chevy will back up when nascar saids to turn them luce thay are just playing now,watch and see, thay take care of the truck races the foreign dodge is foreign owned.i am a american no more sunday race i will let toytoa and the foreigner have it.

April 17, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(1052) jerry guthrie says:


April 17, 2007 at 10:55 pm
(1053) Todd W says:

‘New Yorker’

This isn’t about the Japanese ‘per say’

– It’s about a Japanese automobile manufacturer parading itself on a race track using age old American parts, Toyota in particular. Are you telling me the Toyota corporation donated ten million dollars after the 911 fall out? I don’t think so! The Toyota corporation isn’t even supporting our military from it’s assembly lines, let alone donating anything to the cause. Lets talk NASCAR ‘New Yorker’ …Let’s stay on topic. Give one good reason that Toyota should be able to clone American race cars just in order to compete with them? Do that, and you will be finding your way back on topic here.

April 18, 2007 at 7:23 am
(1054) Resident New Yorker says:

I may have moved away from the direct topic, however, in reference to ‘pride’ in 1140, I presented truism to his untruism in order to set the record straight. That was a direct disrespect towards the Japanese per se.

At this time, I would refer you to the question in 1144, with your answer to that, then we might find our way back on topic here.

April 19, 2007 at 10:44 am
(1055) Who cares. says:

I love racing whatever form it is in. Toyota in the field who cares. Toyota are in a lot of race series, even in F1. If they bring the money, improve the technology, and improve the competition even better. If they work as well in Cup as they do in F1 it will be a long time before they are real competitor, if ever. So why worry?

April 19, 2007 at 10:14 pm
(1056) I Laugh 4 Todd says:

Because it irrates the bejesus out of Todd W, and he will go on a three to five day rant! LOL!

I predict within the next moments he will on and doing just that.

That is the whole sport of this page, baiting Todd!

Don’t know ya, but glad to read ya!

April 20, 2007 at 8:04 am
(1057) I need a laugh says:

Hey Todd, where you at?

Come on back and make some more posts. We have not had a good laugh since April 17, 10:55 pm, “per say”! LOL!

April 21, 2007 at 11:15 am
(1058) Kentucky Proud says:

Here’s how money Toyota donated after 911 0000000000000.

They only take from us not give

But you bright Americans still buy thier trash

Be American Buy American

April 21, 2007 at 12:32 pm
(1059) william russ says:

NO! no toyotas should be in nascar.Ihave been a fan for over fourty years and drove at local tracks in VA,I did go to four to five races a year. I would not pay a dollar to see a nascar race today.toyota is killing are sport and country.I wonder what DAVID PERSON has to say about it. I also wonder if DALE EARHARDT would have raced with them or in the car of now peice of junk!

April 22, 2007 at 8:31 am
(1060) Resident New Yorker says:

Blasphemay KY Pride, it’s all blasphemay!
We don’t have to like or want Toyota in NA SCAR.
We don’t have to buy their products!

But we MUST, accept the truth, and especially when it deals with peoples of other nations, and governments of said nations.

I have enclosed some links for you my friend. All I ask is that read them, and possibly have a better understanding of what you are preaching brother.

Please for the betterment of mankind, do a little research:

Here is what they did for you southerners after Katrina. IIRC Pres. Bush did a low level fly by on his way back from yet another vacation?

A letter from The Consulate General:

Here my friend is probably one that is going to boil your blood into a frenzy. Other than Toyota from KY, where might we find the Commonwealth of KY contributions?

Again friend, to have hate is human, to err is human, but to blatantly dispatch untruisms on the internet about an entity that you have not researched becomes bigotry my friend. And that needs to stop.

April 23, 2007 at 11:57 pm
(1061) leo says:

toyota is the only made usa made car
that is in nascar!!!!!!!!!

April 25, 2007 at 6:30 am
(1062) Al Greene says:

To all that say they will not watch or follow NASCAR when Toyota runs, good! The less rednecks the better so at least I will understand the English being spoken. “Git-r-dun”, what rock do you live under? To the fool that claims that they couldn’t sell U.S. cars in Japan, well you can’t even do that very well in the U.S. either. Who wants to buy crappy cars anyways. It doesn’t matter which country makes the car, if it’s crap, it’s CRAP!!! That’s why Toyota became the NUMBER ONE today APRIL 25, 2007. Maybe the rednecks don’t know how to compete and that’s what scares them into not watching. To the lame fool claiming that he won’t buy products from companies that sponsor hood space on Toyota cars, YOU ARE THE FOOL we see on A&E’s “Airline” claiming he will never fly Southwest again. Really, you fool, what are your choices? Competition breeds better products and pricing but all of you in your little NASCAR world must be such inbreeds that you are scared silly to have to compete with something that’s different. I say let the better product win. The rest of you can go back to your inbreed shed and go forth and multiply yourselves out of existence.

April 25, 2007 at 8:25 am
(1063) Lawrence Hansen says:

Well It Only Took Toyota A Couple Years To Ruin Craftsman Truck Racing, I Guess By 2008 Cup Racing will Be In The crapper as well.When I See A Toyota Pro Stock At A NHRA Event I Will Find A New Sport To Watch Or I Can Go Fishing.I Hope NASCAR Is Watching, I Won’t Be.

April 25, 2007 at 12:49 pm
(1064) Nascar Vinnie says:

What a bunch of ignorant people. Of course it IS nascar and one is to expect the rednecks to open their mouths and show why they’re indeed rednecks.

Saying Toyota has no business because it’s a Japanese car is beyond ignorant.

Bah, why waste my space on these idiots. They’re also the ones over at NBA.COM that say Yao Ming shouldn’t be able to play basketball, because…after all he comes from a Foreign Country.

So, have fun at your KKK meetings fellows and watch as Toyota becomes a dominant force to be reckoned with in the very near future.

April 25, 2007 at 9:44 pm
(1065) Mr. Sandman says:

Nascar racing is an American Sport. Japanese should stick with Sumo Wrestling. As for the big three building in Canada and Mexico, who cares. First off they’re still American companies. Plus Canada and Mexico are still part of continental America, and they don’t sumo wrestle. So what happens when Mahindra, or Yugo decide they want to race in Nascar…..God help us. So anyway, another Nascar fan lost. You’ll need to find 3 or 4 more to make up for this one Nascar. Pissing off your fan base isnt to smart.

April 25, 2007 at 11:18 pm
(1066) DBLD says:

NASCAR is a truly original AMERICAN sport…born in the south. Please can’t we keep it that way? I guess not…since Toyota has lined the pockets of too many influential people in Nascar!! right!! {Darrell}

April 26, 2007 at 12:32 am
(1067) american made says:

You guys don’t get it. Our country has already been bought.From D.C. all the way to “Ben and Jerry’s” icecream. The only real american made product is americans and even that isn’t a hundred percent domestic anymore. Dang I miss the 20th century. Best regards everyone

April 27, 2007 at 7:49 am
(1068) Frank says:

I remember when nascar was actually “stock” Chevrolet could not even compete with Chrysler or even Ford, so they took their toys home and quit. As long as chevy wins, the rednecks will pay to see the adult version of “bumper cars”. They even legislated Chrysler out of the game for decades. If they did the same to Ford the whole farce would have destroyed itself completly. Now the threat of Toyota is just more of the same. My 2006 300C was made in Canada and most of our so called “domestics” are made in Mexico or Canada anyway.

April 29, 2007 at 10:26 pm
(1069) Vinnie says:

Update on Todd W & Ramon.

So this Todd dawg comes to town looking for my man Ramon. Says he wants to see his ride, and then race it to beat him for bragging rights.

So, Saturday afternoon, we heads down to the docks and give him a little tour. Then they line up even on the strip. Well, let’s just say, that vintage bowtie was had from the line, and looked sad at the end.

So Todd says he wants to go visit an old friend and make some adjustments. No biggie dawg, we will be here working on this other project.

Anyways, Todd returns about 10:00 that night, and that old bowtie is sounding pretty frisky. So they line up even again, and DARN, that bowtie blows off the line like a scalded ape, but just couldn’t stay with Ramon in the end and dropped by 2 links.

Now Ramon was impressed, and Todd was even madder. So, he claims he needs to make another adjustment, and get better gas. Ramon offers him ‘our’ shop, but no-way Todd.

Was not long maybe midnight when Todd returns. This time he is really sporting vintage power, and open headers to boot.

They acosted each other for a bit, then made the bet. Winner walks with talking/bragging rights, loser cannot return to this site. Just as Ramon was all too ready to agree, Todd dawg throws in, and “no giggle gas”! Ramon was like, hu, I ain’t needed it yet! Race on!

So they again line up, even. At the drop that old timer let out a roar like a scene from “Discovery Channel”, and darn, then thing was getting it. Ramon was slamming it hard, but knew it was not gonna be enough. At the 1/8 mile point Todd dawg was ahead by 1 full length and almost pulling away. Ramon had our engine screaming, and was not gaining. About a full second later, it was obvious Todd dawg had this one rapped. But Ramon, not taking to getting beat ~period~, hit the juice.

Now, neither one can come back on here. If they do, they must face the ridicule of the other. So, they won’t be back!

April 29, 2007 at 10:50 pm
(1070) MattC says:

Wow. Interesting post Vinnie. I’ve been watching this message board for the past couple weeks without saying anything because I was getting tired of the pointless arguments with Todd that seem to go nowhere. It’s cool that he and Ramon got the chance to check out each others cars and race them. They must live fairly close to each other. I must say though, Ramon should be declared winner because he did beat Todd 2 out of 3 races fair and square. I would also like to congradulate Toyota for surpassing GM and being #1 now. This is obvious proof that the American people approve of Toyota’s quality and style in their vehicles.

April 29, 2007 at 10:55 pm
(1071) Todd W says:

Well, that was so clever there Vinnie. Can’t believe I’m still being mentioned by name in here. You must have really taken it all to heart to begin making up these little fantasies.

Especially the way you refer to a 1970 Chevelle as an ‘old bow tie’ and incapable of running down a Supra for whatever reason. That 55 Chevy that Richard Ruth built for that two lane flick over thirty years ago was an ‘old bow tie’ too Vinnie. Would still blow a Supras doors off even today though considering it was running in the 10′s 38 years ago! If only your fantasies were real Vinnie, so sad. Don’t forget to log in as Ramon ‘the dawg’ now….I’m already bored just at the thought of it.

April 29, 2007 at 11:05 pm
(1072) Todd W says:

Welcome back Matthew, I wasn’t aware the I frightened you away. It’s okay Matt…


…It’s just a message blog.

Hey, anybody figured out why the Toyota’s are still sucking so bad on the track? Oh yeah, because they really do suck that bad.

Glad to see another Chevy in victory lane today. What else is new huh?

: )

April 29, 2007 at 11:11 pm
(1073) MattC says:

Todd you didnt scare me away. It’s just what I said – I got tired of this blog going nowhere by arguing with you. You twist words around in a failed effort to make a point. And you don’t just do it to me, you do it to everybody. And nobody ever said Toyota will win every race in NASCAR from now on. Who knows, they might not win a race at all this year. But if they stay in NASCAR and give it a good, honest effort, they’ll be successful just like selling cars. There’s nothing new here.

April 29, 2007 at 11:12 pm
(1074) MattC says:

And for the record, I take back what I said about your little race with Ramon if it didn’t happen.

April 30, 2007 at 12:02 am
(1075) Todd W says:

Matt, you actually thought that was legitimate???

If somebody posted on here that they seen Matt wearing women’s clothes the other day…You think I should actually believe that?

Regardless of the argument, the over the top tactics of this person, (or persons) Ramon, the general, the misspelled ‘Aethiest’ , Vinnie….Using a hundred blog ID’s at this point, and acting like clowns on top of it all –The last thing they are doing is aiding the Toyota camp.

….And that’s who has made this blog a complete bore literally.

It’s fun to debate, but the kid games ruin it for all involved.

One thing I can at least say considering this huge waste of time, is I never resorted to lying, or creating multiple blog ID’s. Ask McCormick!!! lol

April 30, 2007 at 12:50 am
(1076) Todd W says:

…And since I’m bored here,

Matt writes –

“It’s cool that he and Ramon got to check out each others cars”

Actually Matt, out of these twelve hundred posts here, the only car to check out happens to be mine…go figure there??

As far as the race with Ramon, maybe it did happen. I can assure you it wasn’t fair though. Because Raymond didn’t hand me the other controller to race on his play station.

April 30, 2007 at 8:33 am
(1077) I Laugh For Todd says:

Woohoo! We got Todd back, and full of crap as usual.

Thanks Vinnie, I’ve been missing my daily dose of laughter lately.

Welcome back Jack erm, Todd.

What kind of wisdom are you going to share with us this week, “per say”?

April 30, 2007 at 2:54 pm
(1078) Jeff says:

The history of NASCAR started in the moonshine running days, your car had to be fast to out run the law. NASCAR history was Dodge,Chevy and Ford not Toyota. I think NASCAR should stay with it’s history.

April 30, 2007 at 8:14 pm
(1079) Eldora!!! says:

Toys bought there way into Nascar. They did’nt earn it or deserve it. That is why(or one of) the reasaons ole Mikey W. is still sitting on the fenece.
Toys are for College girls and liitle boys!

May 1, 2007 at 8:17 am
(1080) I Laugh For Todd says:


Good one Todd: “I never lie” Bwahahah!

Guess you forgot about “Toyota never produced a RWD V8, ever” Hah, you were styimed then and styimed now.

But you kept me laughing all the way along.

I guess next you’ll challenge me as being your nightmare dream of the “Aetheist”, ha!

You just don’t get do you? You make all of these great remarks, add a bit of copy and pasted knowledge from other peoples work “per say” LOL, then come right back and get onto it again.

That is what has made these last 500+ postings so funny!

Thanks Todd, come on back soon we need more laughter in our work day!

May 1, 2007 at 2:04 pm
(1081) Todd W says:

Forgot about the primitive limosine — the Toyota ‘Crown’? The saem limo Toyota offered only in Japan 30 plus years ago? Who hasn’t forgot about that piece of crap Aethiest?

…And no. I just ‘don’t get’.

Why don’t you log in as ‘Vinny’ again, and entertain us some more with your drag racing fantasies that take place ‘down by the docks’.


May 1, 2007 at 3:27 pm
(1082) I Laugh For Todd says:

Does not hide!

Bah! You are just so predictable. Next you’ll say I’m NEMan, and some others as well! Ha!

What ever happened to deadhead?

May 2, 2007 at 11:40 pm
(1083) I Laugh For Todd says:

Come on Todd, tell us some more stories.

Like “Only American cars have ever raced in NASCAR”.

Or, “America invented the V8 engine”.

We have all come to expect this rubbish from you, you do realize that don’t you?

May 3, 2007 at 12:59 am
(1084) Todd W says:

American cars ‘are’ NASCAR Aethiest, let’s face it. America invented the ‘NASCAR’ V8….right along with NASCAR for that matter. That’s what’s really important here, and the entire point on top of it all. Do you really want to continue on arguing things like Toyota made a V8, twelve passenger limosine for Japan in the mid sixties?..And Porche entered a handful of NASCAR truly ‘stock’ car races in the 50′s?

NASCAR is a comercialized bore…And so are these same stale arguments you keep attempting. I’d rather turn this into a car flick thread, because I’m about ready to fall asleep here halfway through responding to you anymore…Speaking of car flicks (and Rich Ruth)….I just caught two lane a few nights ago on cable. Hadn’t seen it in almost fifteen years. Best car flick of all time in my opinion. Cheap budget, no over the top import drama, etc. Give me a straight axle tri five, with weathered primer, and a real motor any day over some Supra with a tacky, hot wheels paint job, and inspector gadget power plant. The all American ‘gasser’

…You get the idea. Then again, you don’t whatsoever.

May 3, 2007 at 8:49 am
(1085) I Laugh For Todd says:

Ahhh, your back, in true forum.

I’ll play along.

Ok, suppose I am the “Aetheist”.

Now what? Are your nightmares coming back? Bwahahah!

That’s right Todd, American cars ‘are’ NASCAR. Just like Parnelli Jones. Ever heard of him Todd? He got beat by some French made cars back in the late 50′s, on a NASCAR circuit, did you get it Todd? French Citroens! Not American cars by any standards, and right here in America Todd! Dooh, did you miss that one?

So some movie that ‘Todd’ watched is suppose to be the all time great? Another oxymoron from the ediot himself.

I gues the original “Vanishing Point” with a real car, and real streetable HEMI power does not count?

Have you not seen “Dirty Mary and Crazy Larry” Todd, another car cult flick starring a Dodge?

You are right-o-again Todd! You have no clue as to whom you are dealing with. What to say in a logical conversation without taking anothers words out of context. Or, better yet, accusing them of being your ‘arch nemesis’ reincarnated under a differnt ID! That really makes me chuckle. Kudos to the real Aetheist; whomever and wherever he might be! Furthermore, how to deal with reality, except to place the Toddisim effect to it in an attempt to sell it as something!

But alas, you are such a bore to converse with, but you do make some very interesting remarks, “per say”. LOL!

May 3, 2007 at 9:15 am
(1086) dirtracer says:

Imagine that nextel and toyota it sounds like toyota trucks have been using an intake manifold that must have gave them some advantage.I didn’t hear the whole story but it sounds like they have to come up with something different.Liston to Tony Stewart they promote who they want to and they overlook what they want to.about 8 yrs. ago a nascar carb builder told this stuff was going on back then and problably forever.It was jeff gordon then.Tell me something not going on like that right now.Thats why they lost me as a spectator. the big money sponsers get what they want.Before nextel you didn’t hear much about cingular or motorola can’t be on a car because its the nextel series.What a joke.

May 3, 2007 at 1:04 pm
(1087) Todd W says:

The French Citroen???


Oh yeah, and none of the Challengers in Vanishing point were hemi cars Aethiest. One was even a 383 automatic.

The straight axle ’55s in the other film were purpose built race cars, fiberglass doors, clip, plexi windows, Old’s rear, modified frame, etc.

What happened to ‘Ramon’ and ‘Vinnie’ Aethiest? Your ‘outlaw’ blog alter ego’s (along with this obvious one) — The ones that are so ‘hip’ that they have to use hipster slang on the keyboard. “Yo, yo, yo dawg” ha ha ha

I bet they are busy racing ‘down by the docks’ today, huh? LMAO!!

At least you’re not pretending to be a US marine anymore…That fantasy was really sad ‘Aethiest’.

May 3, 2007 at 4:10 pm
(1088) Todd W says:

It’s onbvious it’s you Aethist, because you have used this little line ‘battle of the wits’ under I don’t know how many blog ID’s now.

: )

Riverside in 1958???

Riverside was a road course Aethiest, aside from that….I wonder where those French ‘hot rods’ finished? No doubt it was a big American car over the finish line in 58, huh Aethiest? Pretty desperate to have to refer back to 1958 to prove how a French auto happened to finish ahead of an American full size car on a road course in California. You don’t even know half of what your talking about Aethiest. Then again, I knew that 300 posts ago with the original Shelby GT350 Mustang with the ’390′ in it.


“In my uncles barn sits an all original ShelbyGT350…with the 390 in it”!

Oh brother

….And who can forget…

“See this NASCAR spec ‘cammer’ 427 sitting in my uncles other Mustang?”

…And come to find out it’s sitting in a T-bird….Plus, it’s directly from the wikipedia page for big block Fords.

ha ha ha (I really am laughing thinking back to that).

…And what are you talking about?

A scene for the ‘search’ for a hemi oil pan in Vanishing point? I don’t think so Aethiest. That’s what you claimed….It’s right there in your above post, quote –

“I guess the original “Vanishing point” with a real car, and real streetable HEMI power does not count?”

I know you get your cars mixed up Aethiest (that’s obvious) — But there were no Chargers in Vanishing point, plus it’s a know fact that none of the white ‘Challengers’ were hemi cars.

…And yes it is fact that the three 55 Chevrolets were purpose built drag cars in Two Lane Blacktop….You can gather as much just looking at them! Two with L88 454′s, and one with the LS6 454. Both L88 cars would run into the tens. The cars in Vanishing point were factory Challengers Aethiest.

LOL, you can’t even tell a Challenger from a Charger…That’s classic ‘Aethiest’ right there.

: )

May 3, 2007 at 4:36 pm
(1089) Todd W says:

Whoops! Let me correct myself, two L88 427′s and one LS6 454 (See I’m helping you right along here ‘Aethiest’)

; )

Oh yeah, and just to confirm at least two of your blog ID’s at this point…

Way back in blog post #800 ‘Toyotarocks’ types in — ‘BWAHAHA~BWAHAHA!’

Moving onto blog post #881 the ‘Aethiest’ types in — ‘ Bwa-HAHAH-BwaHAHA!’

And wouldn’t you know it, here on blog post #1183 ‘IlaughforTodd’ types in — ‘Bwahahah!’

: )

May 3, 2007 at 5:41 pm
(1090) Todd W says:

I have some time to kill, so just to recap —

To this point it’s been one regular blog poster, me (Todd W)

debating with the Aethiest and his two buddies. Under the following blog ID’s –

‘I Laugh for Todd’
‘Toyota rocks’
‘Toyota rules’
‘Toyota Fanatic’
‘Ramon, the big’
‘Toy engines’
‘SFC. B Mack’
‘Lampredi’s afterbirth’
‘Dennis T’

…And those are just the ones that I have picked up on to this point! I’m sure there’s a lot more overlooked here. Real impressive ‘Aethiest’. Not to mention, at least half of those blog ID’s are your own.

Question –

Why does it call for so many blog ID’s just to debate in a car blog? Actually, your not even doing that. Because as the Aethiest you argue against Toyota, then under your other blog ID’s (one you have already admitted to) — you argue for Toyota.


How about just learn something about the cars themselves if you want to debate in an auto blog Aethiest. Maybe then you wouldn’t have to create a dozen blog ID’s, contradict yourself left and right, plus argue an issue from both sides just to participate.

…and stop pretending to be a Marine, street racer, PR rep for military Humvees, EPA agent, muscle car collector, and war vet!


May 3, 2007 at 7:57 pm
(1091) I Laugh For Todd says:

Yes Toad, you are so predictable. LOL!

So there,
American Pride
KY Pride
Chevelle L34
MattC (where you even double posted talking to yourself)

Are just a few of your blog ids that jump to the top.

So what are you onto know?
Attempting to re-establish yourself as the King Toad ediot of this web-page?LOL.
You have already acheived success there.

However, ‘I’ MUST therefore be the ACE PIMP of the world, since you hold me in such high reagrd!

I will wear that badge of compliment as the highest award avaiable here!

Thank you, thank you very much.


It is you in your simpleton world that you are confused, especially when it comes to the military and anything surrounding that subject. I have never claimed to be something I am not, unlike you, that claims to be only the one and only, Todd. Yet you have made many comments and postings as other users.

And, for the record, you at one time used anothers id to boast your sillyness.

But like you said, the two movies I referenced where NOT the same BORING items you mentioned. The movie I quoted was “Dirty Mary and Crazy Larry, have you already lost track of that Todd? deadhead, dumbess, lizardking, or whatever moniker you are hiding behind?

As far as the military, it appears you have the twisted dimension that you never could serve and therefore, you are at a loss for self and public accomlishment in-so-much-as you use your Xbox gaming world to convey your ability to serve. And that is what is pathetic Todd, go look in the mirror and you will be facing:


May 3, 2007 at 8:21 pm
(1092) Todd W says:

Now how did I wind up misspelling ‘Pathetic’


Hopefully that’s okay with you ‘Aethiest’. Because after all; You misspelled ‘Atheist’ every time you logged into the blog here.

: )

May 3, 2007 at 8:28 pm
(1093) I Laugh For Todd says:

Ahh, young grasshopper, again you have proven predictable.

You see, for the third time
I am Robert!

PATH TIC, = a blood sucking parasite found on a path. ROFLMAO!

May 3, 2007 at 8:52 pm
(1094) Todd W says:


You’re laughing at yourself, right? Because that’s about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard (no offense).

Or wait…



…And what is this nonsense about me using multiple ID’s any way ‘Aethiest’? Funny how for all these blog ID’s I’m supposedly using; it’s always an attack on just one (Todd W) — from your obvious plethora of blog ID’s.

Going so far as to create one of your blog ID’s with ‘Todd’ in the exact title no less!

Oh, and by the way ‘Aethiest’ — the ‘Crazy Larry’ Chargers were all 440′s in all actuality as well chief. The only hemi’s out of any of those flicks was in Two Lane — That Daytona at the beggining, that was a real Kieth Black hemi in ‘Big’ Willie’s Daytona.

Don’t tell me you’re on the verge of pretending to be the Marine personality in the blog again ‘Aethiest’. Please spare us that. Why don’t you go back to your Ramon the ‘hipster’ slash ‘street hero’ personality instead?

…Just so we can all hear more fast and furious stories about racing ‘down by the docks’.

Like this one –

“it was obvious Todd dawg had this one rapped. But Ramon, not taking to getting beat ~period~, hit the juice.
Now, neither one can come back on here. If they do, they must face the ridicule of the other. So, they won’t be back!”

“Todd-dawg’…’hit the juice’


May 3, 2007 at 8:59 pm
(1095) Robert says:

I had to feed you something, you know toads are always hungry right?

So, predictable!

May 3, 2007 at 9:25 pm
(1096) Kentucky Proud says:

Use production cars and engines and Toyota and the other want a be’s will leave. Not doing so good are they.

Now Letterman is talking about his little Honda girl driving in Nascar.

She weighs a 100 pound less than the men in Indy and still comes in 15 or higher


May 3, 2007 at 9:50 pm
(1097) dirtracer says:

what happened to the original post ?

May 3, 2007 at 10:09 pm
(1098) Robert says:

Yes Todd, those Chargers were 440s, just like I posted!

I did not say they were Hemis.

I said the the 426 Hemi from the original Vanishing Point. The one where YOU said it was a 383! ROFLMAO! You know where in the desert they were trying to find him? The copper dude said a salvage man had recently sold a oil pan for a 426 Hemi to a guy that fit their description?

Oh, I forgot, that movie was before your time, and you have no real knowledge, only info that you cut and paste from other people on the net without giving them credit. Plagiarism is not an issue with you is it?

Actually I do come here to get my kicks. You make for a good laugh, and now that I have actually engaged with you here, I can know see why so many people have done it, and continue to do it. You are just too gullible and predictable a prospect, and you keep begging more more, just like a blood sucking parasite!

So, why did you ever stop as deadhead, I mean you really improved your “fart-pipe” verbiage since those postings!?

Again, you are experiencing phases of dementia and it shows. I have been here off and on for two years this past April the 3rd. I have posted as Robert, then I laugh for Todd, and now back as Robert. But again, you fail to make logical connections, and you still think everybody here except you must be your night mare. I would like to meet “The Aetheist” in person. I’d buy him a drink of his choice, and converse with him about philosophical and psychological control through the internet, for he surely has you fitted well into a straight jacket!

Does some research;

Hey Todd tell us again what engine is in the military hummer, dude! ROFLMAO

May 3, 2007 at 11:04 pm
(1099) MattC says:

I’d like to clear something up – Me and ToddW are not the same person… I don’t know where anybody would get an idea like that, but just so you know, it makes no sense at all…

May 3, 2007 at 11:06 pm
(1100) Todd W says:

The military Hummer? It’s a GM designed diesel as far as I know ‘Aethiest’ — just like I pointed out when you were pretending to be ‘Hummerdude’…PR rep for AM General. Remember?

…And you’ve been at this for two years? Making up names in a NASCAR blog?


: )

Oh yeah, and you’ve made up more names than that ‘Robert’….You just admitted so a few posts ago, remember? “I pretended to be ‘Vinnie’ because I had to feed you something Todd”.

It’s alright, I’m as used to as much by now…’Robert’.

Hey, back to the car flicks, after all I said why not go down that route anyway. Yeah, I remember the desert scene, in fact I have vanishing point on dvd….and I don’t recall that (could be wrong, but I don’t recall that whatsoever). I might even check for the heck of it because I’m curious now.

What ‘copper’ dude exactly Robert? The one named ‘Charlie’ or the older one?

…And that really doesn’t make much sense either Robert. He was driving the car from Denver to California, and it was a delivery agency in Denver on top of it all. The cops knew right off that it was a legit car due to the plates, and who Kowalski was in fact. So I think you’re a bit mixed up there. Let alone, you would have to elevate the motor just to change the pan! I don’t think Kowalski had a picker out there in the desert, do you Robert? I don’t remember a scene in where he starts unbolting motor mounts to change a pan in the desert, do you?

Let alone, here’s the break down for all three Challengers used in Vanishing point –

Two, 440′s with manual trans, and one 383 auto. In fact, in the final crash scene they show a white 67 Camaro wrapped around the dozer instead of a Challenger. There were no hemi’s involved in the making of the movie. Which makes sense, why would the film studio opt for an expensive hemi car to thrash?

In Blacktop on the other hand, a lot of those cars were for real. Big Willie Roinson was a real LA street racer, unlike your fantasy alter ego ‘Ramon’. He actually got behind building ‘Brotherhood’ race way park in L.A — The real strip by the docks, because it’s right next to LA harbor. That’s where the dorky imports really started at Robert. At a strip put together with the aid of a real LA street racer, one who drove a real muscle car.

Just helping you get your facts straight here. Hey, you can pretend you knew all of this on your own in another one of your car blogs where you have 20 more blog ID’s.

: )

May 3, 2007 at 11:41 pm
(1101) Todd W says:

…And welcome back Matt, even if you are a Toyota supporter. I will admit that was a pretty desperate attempt by Robert there to claim we were the same blog ID.

Especially after the sprawling intense arguments I had going on with you, him, and his internet buddies all at the same time! At least you and NEman stuck with one name in the blog through it all no matter how heated it got.

…and unlike someone we know here. Counting ‘Robert’ that would be a total of 16 blog ID’s now? I’m sure Steve McCormick has some sort of system in the blog. To where if you type in a user name, only a certain IP adress is able to acess it. Heck, I don’t know….

But when ‘Robert’ actually attempted to pretend to be me posting in here at one point, the name wasn’t the same. It was ‘Todd W’ with a zero instead of an ‘O’ if I remember right. That’s what makes me think that there must be some IP filter so you can’t just steal names. What would be interesting is for Steve to point out just how many blog ID’s are assigned to ‘Roberts’ IP adress at this point. I say twenty-five low end.

Come on…tell us Steve!! After all, it’s your blog, and it’s obvious this person has no disregard whatsoever in creating multiple ID’s just to screw around with it.

May 4, 2007 at 12:01 am
(1102) MattC says:

I’m sure I tend to come across as a hardcore toyota supporter, but that’s not entirely the case. My views on the subject are mixed. I don’t hate all American cars because there are a few that don’t need big V8′s to put on a serious show. I’m actually a big fan of the GMC Syclone. There was never a truck like it and it’s too bad they stopped production in 1992. Nothing could beat it off the line. We never had a Nissan Skyline available over here, but at least we had the Syclone.

May 4, 2007 at 12:08 am
(1103) Todd W says:

Yes, Robert I admitt, I am all that I have ever lied about.

Yes I used other peoples ID’s here to say wrong things.

Heck, I even used Toyota Rocks, and admitted to it. So, there. Ha!

I’ll admit, I am the dumbess you say I am, if you just stop with the night mares, please??????

May 4, 2007 at 12:11 am
(1104) Robert says:

Todd, I am not who you think I am.

I am Robert, and I cannot control your dreams no matter how hard I try!

Maybe you ought to seek counseling!

Or maybe have a basic idea of what you are trying to type, before you type it.

May 4, 2007 at 12:13 am
(1105) Steve McCormick says:

All I will say is that I see more information than you guys do. I get to see every poster’s IP address plus some additional info. With that I can tell who is using multiple IDs and who isn’t.

Nobody has ever been banned or had their posts deleted for using multiple IDs.

May 4, 2007 at 1:31 am
(1106) Todd W says:

Well, what would result in a ban Steve?

Maybe outright stealing blog identities like Robert has already done right there in post #1201? I guess if it’s alright for him to post as Todd W, he might as well just start posting as Steve McCormick…

Aside from all of this, doesn’t such obvious and desperate attempts here in a blog by one participant sort of defeat the whole purpose of the blog itself Steve?

This isn’t a NASCAR blog anymore, it’s a ‘make up as many names as you can to squabble with Todd W over anything’ blog at this point. It’s not only rediculous, it’s moronic. At least remove the lame attempts by this person to imitate me in the blog because he’s that desperate.

May 4, 2007 at 7:04 am
(1107) Robert says:

Well well Todd, again you are confused.

You were the one and only that has stolen blog IDs, have you forgotten that already. You even boasted about it, you may have forgotten, but WE have not.

That was not me up there, attempting to be you. That would be a feat unachievable by myself.

Why would I even want to?

I have no need to humilate you with your own id, you do well enough on your own! ROFLMAO

Your man just said what he knows.

Furthermore, yes I fed you, I fed you the word of P-A-T-H-T-I-C, to keep you going. What happened Todd? Erm, Path-Tic, parasite, have you forgotten that as well?

Todd, for thesake of humanity, go look in the mirror!

May 4, 2007 at 7:08 am
(1108) Robert says:

Almost forgot there Todd.

I’m still here posting, where are you?

Didn’t happen to get scared off again with what the mod posted did you?

I’m not going to tell you again, I am Robert. If you can’t handle that and want to continue to call me names, then maybe Steve can step in and fix that!?

May 4, 2007 at 8:41 am
(1109) tsunami99 says:

i have no problem with toyota being in nascar.we drive a ford taurus now, a 93, and are seriously considering a 99ish model camry as our next car. but also i agree that nascar as a whole is going downhill. it’s getting to be i’d rather watch grass grow than watch nascar. oh well.

May 4, 2007 at 3:30 pm
(1110) Todd W says:


Yeah, Toyota can have NASCAR honestly. Honda’s due in soon, along with who knows all else. I think when it gets to that point, they should really embrace those brands. Abandon the OHV push rods, plus American layout of the cars themselves. If you want a ‘car of tommorow’ — go ahead and create one…But don’t use sixties power plants to power them…especially in Honda’s. NASCAR is a complete bore, I agree. Toyota’s getting tromped and I’m still not watching it.

Main stream ruins a lot of things. When Earnhardt died is when NASCAR started to go main stream. The actual racing became secondary to drama….And that’s NASCAR’s main priority since; Drama, and gimmick. Same with the muscle cars of the late sixties as well. They went main stream in the early ninties, and it screwed up a lot of things. Price of parts, etc. All of a sudden everybody wanted one. Weird thing is, I can’t really tie it to a certain event like some big drama inspired accident in NASCAR.

What it was I think, is my generation, ‘X’ I suppose. The previous generation had gone through the 73 oil crisis, sky high insurance primiums, and just became content to leave the muscle cars in that decade. Along comes the early ninties when the next generation is getting behind the wheel (pre import tuner, 1993 maybe)….And while the majority are opting for stock Toyota’s and Honda’s with body kits, and mini trucks lowered with boming sound systems….There’s that slim minority who opted to restify a Nova, or a Chevelle, or a vintage Mustang. I remember driving around is a super sport 70 Chevelle right in the middle of the ninties, and the overwhelming reaction from my own generation was just a dumb founded expression. “What is that”?….”Is that a GTO?”….”What kind of car is that”?

Twelve years later now it’s “Light em up!”….”Hey, 1970 SS, does it have the LS6?”

What’s irritating is the fact that these same kids today, would have no idea what they were looking at if it wasn’t for everybody rediscovering the muscle car in the early ninties due to a few who opted to drive around in one, and get their hands dirty instead of bolting on body kits, and installing sub woofers instead of a cam, or an HEI distributor, etc. All of a sudden, it wasn’t the specs on some sub woofer they were rattling off…It was muscle car terms from the early seventies. It went main stream blinding quick.

…And everbody took notice, including Detroit. Honestly, if it wasn’t for those of us who opted for the muscle cars over the mini trucks in the early ninties…You wouldn’t have the Charger, or Challenger coming back out of Detroit. You would still be stuck in your mini trucks, and flashy Honda’s. One thing I’m glad hasn’t gone main stream is that same era music. Then again, no worry’s there. Because rap and hip hop is just too much of a fantasy image a lot of you ‘tuners’ can’t disconnect with….And thank god for that, because it makes it that much easier to spot you when your not behing the wheel of that goofy looking Civic.

End of rant –

May 4, 2007 at 4:44 pm
(1111) Robert says:

Excellent posting there ‘Aetheist’ But why on earth did you ‘steal’ Todd W’s blog id to type it under?

May 4, 2007 at 7:36 pm
(1112) Robert says:

You would be the first to go there: deadhead
add nauseum

Then several hundred postings ago where you posted stuff under the guise of ‘Toyota Rocks’ in an attempt to gain some creditability back, you surley boot you out the dorr.

So, what’s the hold up?

May 4, 2007 at 7:47 pm
(1113) Robert says:

Good idea Todd, call the man out.

Just don’t start/stop with Todd W post number 1201, just do us the favor and eliminate ALL of Todd W posts, then we could recapture several hundred posting numbers, eliminate some blatant plagiarism, along with some very untrue statements, and then he will stop calling people ‘The Aetheist” because he will no longer be here> ROFLMAO.

That’s the best darn idea you have typed yet Todd, I fully support you on that one!

May 4, 2007 at 10:34 pm
(1114) Robert says:

Ahh Toad, you are ever so the most predictable of them all.

You couldn’t even scroll up could you.

You were just so overly excited that I’m still here to parlay with, that you had to send another message of Toad-ism rubbish, did you not?

Yes Toad, 1193 I admitted that I in fact fed you. I fed you P-A-T-H-T-I-C from 1191, and you trounced it, hook, line and sinker in 1192.

The only person here capable of a story like that one from ‘Vinnie’ is either ‘Vinnie’ or the King Toad himself.

I can admit right here on the internet, on the self proclaimed ‘King Toads’ page, that I cannot achieve the feat of what you do by making up stories, posting them under other peoples IDs, or making up several ids to express myself and build rapport with.

Heck, talk about building coalitions, it was clear that you and deadhead were the same. Then chevyman came along and went away, the chevelleL34 did the same. Also, you posted the same thing once as Toad, then the very next post was the same thing except as MattC.

Have you forgotten those Toad? You see, I really have been here all along.

May 4, 2007 at 10:56 pm
(1115) Robert says:

Remember folks, japan subsidies their car manufacturers while placing high tariffs on our American cars in their country. Our cars are following fast behind our television industry. And those people here from ‘Generation X’ that cannot live without your rice made cell-phone, play-station, TV, DVD player, home theater system, thumping speaker boxes in the so cheap built that the trunk lid rattles when you play your music rice burning cars, that are allowing our GDP fall to the way side. It’s time for a wake up call people, or we will all be eating rice!

May 5, 2007 at 8:31 am
(1116) Robert says:


I can only assume you did not read my first ever post here; Post number 14 Todd.

If you were to take a whole 11 seconds to read that post Todd, you will see my view. That is the same view as I just posted with post 1216, roughly one thousand two hundred postings later I have the same view Todd.

Can you explain that Todd?

I merely provided you with your misnomers in an attempt to keep the laughable posting going. Yes at your expense, get over it! However, now you cannot even stay on track for more than two consecutive postings, and that is a really sad state of affairs Todd.

Can you explain that Todd?

In closing Todd, have you read your own postings? They really say a ‘LOT’ about you Todd. They tell us ‘HOW’ you think, your ‘LEVEL’ of thought and process capabilities along with your ‘OVERALL’ level of intelligence.

I’ll be here Todd, but I will no longer feed you Todd! I will allow Darwinism to continue to self regulate, and will await the day you receive your award!

May 5, 2007 at 4:47 pm
(1117) Todd W says:

…And Robert, it doesn’t take somebody special you know to own a muscle car. The most important factor is cash like anything else, along with a dry place to park it. Problem is, going by what little I know of you here in the blog — even if you had one of those muscle cars you fantasize over in those movies….You’re too imature to maintain one. You would be out speeding away from every stop light you encountered, and it would just be a matter of what caught up to you first — Thrashing the car, or losing your drivers license due to stupidity. More than likely both.

Im sure you already have a ton of speeding tickets against you just from speeding around in some lame Honda. Honestly at this point, I’m not even sure what your position is. It’s obvious you like the classic muscle cars from your rambles about those films, and the embellished boasting of the Mustang out in the ‘barn’. Yet at the same time, it’s obvious that you’re not too familiar with them either. For example, even a kid out there that dreams about a Shelby Mustang knows the GT350 was a small block Ford, not a 390 as you first claimed as the Aethiest. Then again, maybe you got mixed up and meant just plain ‘GT’ . Still makes zero sense if you’re into mustangs supposedly.

…And then again, all of the pro import talk you have typed off in here. As ‘Ramon’ the dog, ‘Vinnie’ etc. Seems like you were more comfortable talking shop about the imports Robert. Here’s what I think, you have some import that you drive, and maybe you dumped a few things into it — Like a header, performance chip, K&N filter, and that’s about it. Not counting the wheel rims, front and rear spoiler, stereo system, ten thousand rpm autometer tach, ‘racing’ seats, etc. Quite possibly a Supra of some sort to like you boasted as ‘Ramon’ the ‘dog’. I’m sure it’s silver too as you pointed out being ‘Ramon’. There’s a little bit of truth to most lies Robert — even in a car blog!

Here’s what I think, you enjoy the import but really lust after a clean muscle car. So by default, you have to pull for the imports, but at the same time; aren’t commited to them to the point in where you wouldn’t argue against them either. That explains why you have argued from both view points here using your multiple ID’s….and been doing it in here as you admitted for two years now! I haven’t even been blogging in here for two months Robert! My advice? Go out and pick up a Nova or something….and do it quick because the gas prices are going to screw us all here pretty soon. Get yourself a Nova with a 350 auto (cheap!). Find a shop (because it’s obvious you couldn’t swap out a motor)….locate a cheap ZZ4 crate engine and have them bolt it in.

Your gas milage won’t improve Robert, but you will have some real power under your foot for once…And better yet, you won’t have to make up multiple names, telling stories in a car blog. Trust me, I would be your best friend after that Robert, you will be saying to yourself ‘I shoulda done this two years ago!’

May 5, 2007 at 4:51 pm
(1118) Robert says:

You are wrong again Todd.

The car you speak of, the one you posted about is a toyota.

The link to that RWD V8 toyota that you told ‘The Aetheist’ was never built, ever, IIRC.

Remember that Todd, you just recapped it in 1179. Or was that somebody else using your identity again?

Not sure what picture you posted, have not seen any pictures on here, so again, you type another series of misnomers. This is getting better by the day Todd, now you can’t even remember what you have said, or how you said it, then you say somebody else said. But wham, here you come back again reconfirming that it was you that just said it. This is called a circular communication cycle Todd, it can’t go anywhere!

Next. Go ahead Todd, type away, we all know you must have the last word to prove yourself!

May 5, 2007 at 5:32 pm
(1119) Robert says:

You are right again Todd.

It was you, Todd W that said toyota never built a RWD V8 car. Then your worst nightmare ‘The Aetheist’ came along and shot you down like a winged quail on the fly. What happened Toad, you got so flustered you had to make proof. So, you did what you did. You posted your link to you own misnomer. By doing this Toad, you do realize that you set yourself up as the biggest ediot on here don’t you?

You see Toad, I just followed along, here for the laughs “per say” I still get a good chuckle from that one Toad. Yes I kept a tally. Why? Don’t really know, but it has proved to be very valuable over the last couple of days Toad. You are just so demented at the moment you don’t even know what you said, did, or typed. And that really makes me laugh, because I have it all, printed right here in front of me.

I have no need to re-state my position each and every post there Toad, my position was stated in post # 14, and recapped in post # 1216.

May 5, 2007 at 5:45 pm
(1120) Todd W says:

What’ a riot! If you read through that link about the famed Toyota ‘Crown’….It was finally offered with V8 power here in 1964 (the boom of the muscle car era)…and better yet — available for export to sell in this country!!

The engine in 1964 was, get this — a 2.6 litre V8 — ROLMFAO! That’s about a 155 cubic inch V8. Compare that now to the 389 cubic inch V8′s, or even the 289 cubic inch V8′s in any low buck Mustang. I wonder why nobody remembers the famed Toyota ‘Crown’ during this era Robert? Maybe because they couldn’t give one away over here back then you moron!

May 5, 2007 at 6:06 pm
(1121) Todd W says:

The ’64 Toyota Crown!…with the fender skirts and three on the bonzai tree! Why, who could forget those right? With that famed ’155′ cubic inch torque monster sittin under the hood. GTO? Hell, what’s that?

Didn’t Chuck Berry sing about his hot rod 64 Crown, or am I mistaken there? Further proof of Toyota’s roots in NASCAR right there….Way to go Robert…A great big thumbs up driving that point home buckaroo!

May 5, 2007 at 6:52 pm
(1122) Todd W says:

Well, here’s what we have learned so far class –

Robert is the ‘Aethiest’

..and the ‘Aethiest’ is ‘Toyota rocks’…Because he admitted as much here on #912

quote –

“I am The Aetheist AKA: Toyota Rocks.”

So as ‘Robert’ and the ‘Aethiest’ he argues against the imports, yet as his others like ‘Ramon’ and ‘Toyota rocks’….He argues for them! This is because Robert has such limited knowledge about cars in general he can just shift positions to get out of having to engage in a discussion here when he’s called on something. In all actuality he has been here he himself admits for two years, and has something like 20 blog ID’s to his credit at this point.

McCormick, thanks for letting all of this play out. From this point forward I will refrain from using the term moron etc. I will play by the rules, since the obvious has been made screaming obvious here at this point.

May 5, 2007 at 7:23 pm
(1123) Robert says:

Well let’s review Toad;
I went to public education for schooling, therefore I have a run-of-the-mill education. I went to a state level university with a partial sports scholarship, again equating a -run-of-the-mill education. Most folks I know who have had at least basic college philosophy use “riddle me this” when speaking in terms of doing something that is “utterly stupid”! You do realize that don’t you Toad, that suggestion you made is absolutely imbecilic? I guess that makes me and about 20,000 others a year for the last 22 years the same? That makes for another excellent Toad-ism!

Your analogy is very shallow there deadhead, you know you posted ‘fart-pipes’ as deadhead, then again as Todd W, so you ‘WERE’ deadhead earlier on.
Then by using your analogy again, you and chevelleL34 were the same. You said chevelle and he said chevelle, that’s 2. Then chevyman, said chevy and so did you, that’s 3 now. moronsdriveimports said ‘moron’ and you say ‘moron’ so that’s 4. You see toad, this is pretty childish isn’t it? Just like you! Just like your analogies! Just like your inability to say anything worth repeating, except to gain another round of laughter! No pun intended! LOL!

Did you happen to catch the derby Toad, or where you glued here hoping I’d pop in and say something?

Yes, you are so correct again Toad. You are still providing proof that your first ever post here was a fallacy. So my analogy of you is; You are a admitted liar, a braggart, and a person who ‘MUST’ always have the last say in everything, even if it’s an altruism to yourself, you cannot refrain! Remember that grandiose entry you made Toad? “toyota never even built a RWD V8 car, EVER”. ROFLMAO. And here 600 postings later, you Toad, posting as yourself Todd W, is making claim that they did in fact build a RWD V8 car. Even making two postings to boast it! Now doesn’t that just make for a masterful play with psychology? “The Aetheist” surely has you spun boy! Wound up so tight you are even posting truism’s about your own initial fallacies! ROFLMAO!

That is good boy. I mean good! How can you ever best that one?

May 5, 2007 at 7:46 pm
(1124) roadrunner mike says:

Robert, why don’t you give it up already bro? Its obvious you made a ton of names up, and are all over the map arguing for or against. Don’t get pissed off when someone calls you on it, my god.
And Toyota has no business in NASCAR period. Just like you have no business making up false names in a blog to argue. Get a life.

May 5, 2007 at 7:57 pm
(1125) Robert says:

Alright dude,

That’s how many now? an even dozen?

And you even have the audacity to make fun of your own Toad-isms? ROFLMAO! That’s good, almost the best, but not good enough to surpass your own feats of boastings!

May 5, 2007 at 10:39 pm
(1126) Robert says:


Where’d you go Todd?

It appears Mr. McCormick has come along and done some rubbish removal.

Looks like he did a once over, and eradicated ‘ALL’ of your “FALLACIES’, and it appears I should not have called you a amphibian, for clearly that travesty got some of my eloquent typings eradicated as well.

Oh well, guess your charade as half-pipe mike is over as well.

Did you actually think somebody would have fallen for that?

May 5, 2007 at 11:04 pm
(1127) Robert says:

Thanks Todd ~ I have been called worse by many better of a woman than you could ever make as a man. But then again, that’s not saying much is it Todd?

Is that not why you drive that self proclaimed muscle car? To make up for your inferior human genes?

It’s ok Todd, now that we now, it shouldn’t go any farther; I won’t tell, if you / half-pipe mike don’t tell either then things will be just fine.

Where were we again? Ah yes, I must stop feeding you, you trounce it like a kitten after a ball of thread.

You see Todd, I can’t just go out and buy an old jalopy to make you my friend. I have my life, I have kids, well one’s in college, and the other is about to graduate high school and off to college soon. That leaves me and the woman, the truck, car, and horse trailer with horses. I’ve got 18 acres of pasture, now you could come on by and run the filed mower. It’s a 17 footer, PTO attached to a 1983 John Deere 72 HP tractor, takes about three good hours to mow the pasture. What do you say?

But I just can’t get that car, and you still won’t be allowed in the cab of the truck, but you can drive the tractor, deal?

You can see my truck, maybe even make some suggestions on how to make that Cummings purr? She only has 350 hp, but makes up for it with grunting power or 650 torque. I’m sure you could make it do better!?

It’s already turbo-charged, Air-Raid air induction, and custom stainless dual exhaust. I got the 6 speed manual thinking I’d be the only one driving, wrong. That woman of mine done went and learned how to shift gears and not miss a beat.

Anyway, shall we parlay again in the future?

May 6, 2007 at 1:39 am
(1128) MattC says:

Wow. I’ve seen this blog in some pretty bad times. But I’d say we’ve now reached an all time low. We arent even talking about Toyota or NASCAR anymore. I remember having some of my remarks deleted but yet some of these are allowed to stay, and most of them have more swear words than mine ever did. How do you explain that Steve?

May 6, 2007 at 1:53 am
(1129) roadrunner mike says:

No Matt, it looks like Bob there was more into playing games, then debating the topic.

May 6, 2007 at 5:23 am
(1130) RW says:

I’ll never watch NASCAR again. NASCAR is an American race. Toyota is a Japanese car, (I don’t care how many plants they have in North America) their corporate is in JAPAN. Figure it out.

May 6, 2007 at 4:23 pm
(1131) Frank says:

I really don’t know why I am bothering to address this nonesence. Under the skin all are virtually identical as required by the rules. The only thing on any of them representing the brand is the logo. I am at a loss to find anywhere one can buy a realwheel drive Chevy with a GM made 4 speed. Or a Ford 9″ differential. And as far as the engine is concerned, I doubt that there is a GM, Ford, or Dodge built part in any of them. So what’s the difference?
The whole game is money and as in the past,if the Chevrolet logo (BTW French name) does not cross the finish line first most of the time, The rednecks will stop paying to see the show. Who cares if they beat the Toyotas or Hondas or whatever? If any other logo becomes dominant the rulemakers will make them in effect start dragging an anchor.

May 6, 2007 at 8:13 pm
(1132) Todd W says:

I am at a loss to find anywhere one can buy a realwheel drive Chevy with a GM made 4 speed. Or a Ford 9″ differential. And as far as the engine is concerned, I doubt that there is a GM, Ford, or Dodge built part in any of them.

To Frank –

Try Baldwin Motion Frank, or Mr. Norms in Chicago, or any used car lot, or any nickle ad….And as far as any part in the engine goes — the entire block itself is the same spec, cast iron like a normal GM 350 for instance. Plus, when you do locate a Frod 9″ diff, or an M21 trans, or any of that stuff — Good luck bolting it into any pre existing Toyota on the planet Frank. One thing is for certain, none of the parts have ever made their way into Toyota’s, past or present.

May 6, 2007 at 9:54 pm
(1133) Kevin says:

Pardon my rude entry, but i need info. this site is liested fifth on google when searching for info about NASCAR. There are many posters here, but did not see the info in question. I have this social bet with a friend about the new car COT. I beat him on the old car, it’s preety easy to find that info. I need the new stuff.
What style suspiosion are they using. wish-bone, dual link, A-frame anybody know?
Waht about rear diff. It’s pretty common that the Ford 9 in. was in use, what about the new ones?

Also, does anybody have a good website that could answer these trivial questions?

May 6, 2007 at 9:58 pm
(1134) Kevin says:

Sorry, mouse got away.
What about a hardbook? I have been all over the NASCAR site, but sheez all they do is promote the driver etc..And NASCAR 101 is ancient, nothing at all for what I need.

May 6, 2007 at 10:04 pm
(1135) Michael says:

For Kevin, try http://www.jayski.com

For roadrunner mike, since you are using Mike. I’ll use Michael, anywho, please do share your ride.

I’ve got a drivable 69 with a 383 and 727. Not a good looking car, and surely not fast, but it and I have many plans for the future.

How about yourself?

May 6, 2007 at 10:20 pm
(1136) Kevin says:

Thanks Michael, I’ll give it a try.

May 6, 2007 at 10:31 pm
(1137) Todd W says:

Upper and lower ‘tube’ a arms Kevin…I’m sure their still using the late sixties GM truck arm’s in the rear, and the Ford 9″ is still there. The whole point of the ‘COT’ is to slow the cars down. It isn’t a ‘car of tommorow’ – - it’s 30 year old tech still in a lot of ways. The windshield isn’t as raked, the rear spoiler adds more drag, it’s all about saftey — They might as well add an air bag into it.

Point beiing, NASCAR doesn’t want to go that fast anymore….And they want to let Honda and others pretend to be stcok car competitive from ripping off sixties tech in the second decade of the 21′st century. No wonder why the fan base is dropping out.

Michael writes –

“I’ve got a drivable 69 with a 383 and 727″

69 Road runner? Is it gold?…lol Guy across the street from me had a 383 column shift that year. I’ve got a 70 Chevelle that I hardly ever drive anymore. It’s got a date coded 68 327 at the moment, 4 bolt main, cam, etc. 365 horse maybe, somewhere around there. I want to drop it into something else. What I want is a frist gen Camaro/Firebird, or even early second gen Camaro. Won’t happen this summer, unless I just get fed up and go out and pick up a late gen LS1 Camaro which I was thinking of doing too. I’m even tempted to lay cash down for a FWD 66 Toronado if I can spot a clean one. Thier cheap for pristine examples even, and the lines are classic. Ever thought about cloning the car into a winged car? Like a superbird? It’s all cosmetic, not realy sure how much of a hassle though.

May 6, 2007 at 10:53 pm
(1138) Kevin says:

That site has way too many links and not enough quick info. Thanks anyways.

The ford 9 in is still there? I thought I read or heard somewhere they were changing to Dana.

This bet is for a hundred bucks, and I’m not ready to out that much into a bet with only a “I’m sure they” for an answer. Would you happen to have the quick link answer?

If not I have these questions on about 5 different sites at the moment, I’m sure it will come along in time.

Thanks guys.

May 6, 2007 at 11:02 pm
(1139) Michael says:

To Todd,
I’m not sure what color it was. It is currently a combination of that gawd awful green, primer, and classic RUST!
This one does have the column shift as well. I don’t now much about the car’s histiry, but as the 13th owner from the registration book, I’m feeling lucky!
I have joined a MOPAR group, but they are 250 miles across the state from me, beggars can’t be too choosy! Anyway, I hope to gain much support from them. A winged car? I don’t think I understand that, sorry.

May 6, 2007 at 11:25 pm
(1140) Todd W says:

I’m not sure what’s really going on with the ‘COT’ I don’t even think the layout of it is really set in stone even. That’s why their running it on a limited schedule. I’m sure it will change and evolve month after month.

What I mean by ‘winged’ car is the addition of the huge rear spoiler, and nose piece found on the Daytona’s and Superbirds. More or less a Superbird is a Road runner with the spoiler, and nose addition as far as cosmetics go. Pop you’re trunk — If theres diagonal braces there for a spoiler, you’re rich lol.

Just kidding. There was this kid once who had an actual 69 Daytona, and brought it out to a car show. Somewhere along the line, somebody removed the wing, and nose section to make it appear as a regular Charger before he ended up with it. This guy had no idea what he had, even though the rear window on his Charger didn’t match the regular Chargers there. They popped the trunk, and the braces for the wing were still in place and he got a big history lesson about what he had. He boogied as soon as they slammed the trunk shut and I’m sure sold it for ten times what he bought it for a few weeks later.

May 6, 2007 at 11:57 pm
(1141) Todd W says:

ha ha ha

Yep, that Robert is a piece of work all right. Funny how he types up a 500 word reply in a blog, heck a chapter! Detailing his bio there (most of it centered around me for some reason) — yet at the same time, attempts to make the central point of it all tie into how he is just a ‘casual’ poster here. I’m sure the final draft of chapter two is being roughed out as I type this. I hope you have the bandwith McCormick! Chapter two incoming! Shields up Scotty!!!!

: )

May 7, 2007 at 9:18 am
(1142) Frank says:

to Todd W 1237
in the context of my presentation I was refering to “new” as is represented by the somewhat close shape of the bodies used in nascar. Not old Houseflies on the used car market. Perhaps you can reference the rule for the “same cast iron” block. I can’t find any mention of it. It seems that only participating teams can obtain the rulebook. As far as Toyota not having a V8,what about the Tundra truck. If one orders the new block trans and diff without the finish machining,it would not be beyond the ability of most any competent machine shop to install them in almost anything. Evidently this is how virtually all teams do this.

May 7, 2007 at 10:26 am
(1143) Todd W says:

Well, ‘Frank’ I wasn’t talking old house flies on the used car market either. Have you ever seen the Baldwin motion phase III Camaro’s? Or the 68 GSS 725 hp (and up) hemi Dart that Mr. Norm sells new even today? As far as cast iron goes, I don’t need a rule book to tell you that Frank. What do you think those blocks are, aluminum? I don’t think so.

As far as working from a raw cast iron block, yeah Frank — you could turn it into almost anything. Even a sculpture of Franks head I guess. Although it wouldn’t be anything that is sitting in any Toyota past or present now would it? Especially being an OHV push rod, you can find those in past Chevrolets, Ford’s, and MoPars though Frank….And that’s the entire point. In fact, you can still have them shipped to you to install into those domestics as well. As far as the Tundra 5.7, isn’t that a DOHC Frank? The whole point is again, Toyota never met the standard to run in NASCAR as did the other makes. In fact, without those other makes we wouldn’t even have NASCAR period. Who cares about the body really Frank? Does the body power the cars? They could slip a 68 Camaro body over the same car, what’s your point Frank?

May 7, 2007 at 1:12 pm
(1144) Arrallen says:

NASCAR’s problem is that they haven’t kept up their name with the times. I personally feel they should change their name to INODPOSCIT International Not One Dang Piece Of Stock Car In Them. They race in Mexico and are talking about Canada so national no longer fits. The cars certainly are not stock. Lets go back to: “Race them on Sunday and sell them on Monday.”

May 7, 2007 at 4:21 pm
(1145) NsBAM says:

I’m not concerned about people getting uninterested, it’ll bring new waves of Toyota fans & more globally minded people. To me it’s a race, not the cars.

May 7, 2007 at 6:02 pm
(1146) Frank says:

well Todd I guess you are not aware of the many different alloys of “cast iron” or the many methods of casting. Chrysler was famous for its high nickle alloy blocks AMC also used a high nickle alloy too as well as the Hudson. I don’t know of any Factory Chevrolet or Ford that used this “cast iron” There is also investment casting or centifugal casting too. Real race engines demand this process which few if any production engines use. You can buy investment blocks from aftermarket but you will pay big bucks as I am sure nascar engine builders do. My point is Nascar is not racing brands or even cars. It is racing logos. You could possibly leave out the cute little insults that contribute nothing to the conversations.

May 7, 2007 at 7:22 pm
(1147) Todd W says:

No offense, but what kind of nonsense is that Frank? The blocks are iron alloy, you’re going to to start arguing metallurgy now? Do we need a pie chart Frank? Let’s face it, it’s 1960′s tech in NASCAR. The block in any how did you put it? used car lot ‘house flie’ 5th generation Camaro’s is lighter than the racing engines by 50 pounds or more — because their aluminum! It’s amusing how you Toyota supporters don’t get what a rip off in American performance your Toyota stock car is. So your argument always shift towards DOHC, and ‘EFI’…What you don’t get is that carbs are actually harder, and take more skill to tune than an EFI set up. That calls for true mechanics and not computer hackers in the garage. They want to keep it as low twch as possible to deter cheaters, like the Toyota’s who attempted to cheat in it’s first stock car race ever. That’s why we see the CD ignitions up on the dash, to deter from using traction control.

The core layout of the stock cars is American performance, not Japanese. That is just undeniable fact, and has nothing to do with where plants are located, or whats in the showrooms, etc. There’s a million ways to go fast on a race track, and NASCAR’s way is American mid-size, muscle car. Until NASCAR starts moving away from that, Toyota (or any other foriegn name plate) can only copy that specific formula. Sad, but true fact Toyota fans.

May 7, 2007 at 7:40 pm
(1148) jerry says:

the toyota camery is made in georgetown ky. over 90% of the parts are made in ky. and surounding states so i have no problem with them racing in nasscar. how much of a ford or chevy is made in the usa now?

May 7, 2007 at 8:15 pm
(1149) Frank says:

I do not remember mentioning DOHC or EFI or Cameros. I do not remember any Cameros in Nascar. What I am refering to is the item used in nascar that looks something like a 4seat 4door grocery getter. I do not care what logo they carry,they are not even close to what the logo represents. “Iron alloy” encompasses a vast variety of possibilities and metalurgy is the only way one could make a reciprocating engine of any make do 9000+ rpm for 4+ hours. Notice the 358 cuin fits a .030 over 350 Chevy perfectly while requiring a stroke change for a Mopar or a very small (not normal rebuild) for a Ford. This is so far removed from “traditional” racing as to negate any advantage a DOHC engine may have. Remember the Mercedes pushrod engines that blew away everything at Indy? what I am saying is the same as my first post here. “If a bow tie does not cross the finish line first most of the time, the rule makers will make the others in effect drag an anchor” we saw it when Elliot was running the new T-Bird we saw it when Keane ( excuse the spelling) was doing so well in the new Dodge and the restrictor plate BS and of course the superbird and the hemi. Perhaps the real tradition would be the flathead we had when it started. Johnny Mantz blew the field away in a flathead 6 plymouth in the first 500. In closing and the end of this discussion, I wish to say It does not matter what logo, what engine, the rulemakers will restrict it sufficently to assure the bow tie dominance. So Toyota Nissan Honda Ferrari or whatever will make no diff except to draw even more paying customers.

May 7, 2007 at 11:07 pm
(1150) chevy husker says:

let em race expensive endevor with all those fords out there,,right turn clide….thats what bumpers are for. just beat them solidly , and they will towel the program ..they seem to blow up on there own anyway .s

May 7, 2007 at 11:55 pm
(1151) Todd W says:

Okay, let me give this another shot here. First to point out the inacuarate statements here, Jerry first –

“the toyota camery is made in georgetown ky. over 90% of the parts are made in ky”

Well, that’s just wrong Jerry. Here’s the facts about the ‘Camry’ -

“Detroit’s Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources.
Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%.

“The data is clear: Domestic auto plants create more jobs in this country than overseas producers who locate here,” says United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger in a statement to USA TODAY.

All told, each of the Detroit automakers supports 2½ times more U.S. jobs than Toyota, says Jim Doyle, president of the Level Field Institute, a Washington research group.”

So that argument (that Toyota is more ‘American’) is complete nonsense.

And to Frank…

Frank, the ‘Camaro’ did in fact run in the ranks of NASCAR. Tiny Lund among other racers of that era ran it (along with Mustangs, etc.) in the grand am division. I don’t remember any Toyota’s though Frank.

May 8, 2007 at 11:09 pm
(1152) Robert says:

Jerry – Check the label. Don’t be lured into that domesticated trap. As Americans we deserve the real deal, an over-inflated marketing scheme. Next time you encounter those number you quoted, have them compare to these numbers.

“Washington DC April 30, 2007; The AIADA newsletter reported that America’s new cars and trucks were a little more international in 2006, as Detroit and Japan’s top six automakers bought more of their parts from outside the United States and Canada last year.
According to the Detroit Free Press, the trend is fueled by continuous pressures for cost cuts, which have pushed suppliers to seek the lowest cost by building factories in countries such as Honduras, Romania, and Cambodia.
At the same time, an analysis of federal data shows a trend among Japanese automakers to use more U.S.- or Canadian-made parts in the vehicles they built in North America. In fact, Toyota ‘s North American-built cars and trucks had fewer imported parts on average than those built by Chrysler Group.
Among Japanese automakers, Honda had the highest average U.S. and Canadian parts count in 2006 with 60%. Toyota averaged 48%, and Nissan averaged 45%, both down from last year due to strong sales of smaller imported vehicles. A few of Toyota’s U.S.-built 2006 models surpassed 80% domestic parts, including the Camry sedan. The new 2008 Tundra pickup is also at 80%.
Among Detroit automakers, GM had the highest average domestic parts content by sales in its 2006 models at 80%. Ford was second with 79%, and the Chrysler Group averaged 73%”.

May 9, 2007 at 10:26 pm
(1153) ARBY says:

ha, ha, ha. This is a funny read.
Ok. I have a neighbor that has 2 Camary’s with over 300k miles. One is 8 yrs old, the other 6 yrs old. The 8 yr old Camary has finally had to have a new tranmission, but other than oil and filter changes, it just keeps on going.

I have bought my last american car. 87 grand voyager. What a piece of garbage. Before that, I have had Honda’s and Toyota’s. Never again will I purchase a so-called American Made Vehicle. Most of the parts on this Grand Voyager were made either in Mexico or Canada. It had’s it finally assembly in Canada.

My hondas and toyotas have consistently taken me way over 200k miles without any problems.

I say, Go NASCAR. If Toyota wants to run, more power to them.

The UNIONS have killed the American Car companies. It’s time for the Unions to go. They served their purpose 40 yrs ago, but they only purpose they serve today is to line the big fat cats with a big fat wallet.

Honda, Toyota and Nissian plants here in the US, I believe, are all None-union. The people working there are thankful for a job.

May 10, 2007 at 1:57 am
(1154) Todd W says:

You know Arby, selecting a twenty year old mini van of all things to represent domestic auto’s in general speaks for itself….And you’re neighbor has two Camry’s with 300k on the odometer? So what? I wonder how many American based taxis, or squad cars have an even higher figure?

As far as Toyoyta and unions go…Domestic companies are providing some of the best health care in the country for ages now to thier retiree’s, pay way more than imports assembling over here into tax. I wonder if a Japanese manufacturer is going to strive to provide it’s American retiree’s similar compensation as a domestic manufacturer? I doubt it.

Next time try a real American car instead of some 20 yr old mini van before you arrive at such a misinformed conclusion.

May 10, 2007 at 4:26 am
(1155) Death-n-Taxes says:

I say we stop supporting foreign markets by only using American made fuel…..

May 10, 2007 at 10:30 pm
(1156) Bobby T. says:

Well Arby, that is your choice. However, keep in mind that when you buy an American car the proceeds stay here. When you buy a car that has it’s headquarters in japan, then ‘YOUR’ dollars go to japan. Furthermore, another factor that many people do not consider when they buy from japan is they are actually helping to increase japan’s GDP all the while lowering our own. There are reasons why we have become a materialistic society, and without a recourse, we will become nothing more than a materialistic nation.

It is your choice, make a wise one.

May 11, 2007 at 1:10 am
(1157) ARBY says:

Mr. Todd W.
This van was not 20 yrs old. it was brand new. You see, I’m the type that never buys a used car, only new, right off the truck. Usually order just the way I want it.
Mr. Bobby. That maybe true, but, I find that a good japaneese car may cost about 2k more than a like american car. BUT, the american car spends much more time in the shop for costly repairs.
The van (purchased new for 26k), in the 7 yrs that I owned it, I put in well over 5k in repairs, excluding tires, oil changes, batteries. The Nissan truck I had 15 yrs. Total cost for repairs other than oil, tires and batteries, $2500.
I will pay a little more up front to get a QUALITY built car, not a piece of garbage american car.
Look where the unions have taken the domestic car companies. On the verge of bankrupcy.
Have a good day.

May 11, 2007 at 1:18 am
(1158) Jeff says:

Honestly, how much in common does your Monte Carlo have in common with a Nascar Monte? The body, tweaked alot yes. Not since the 60′s have you ever been able to take a car from the show room and compete with it around a track or in a straight line, eg. 69 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler Sport 2, Ford Thunderbolt, the Plymouth Road Runner, Charger Daytona, etc. etc. Now those were real cars. I’m 24 and I can admit that and am a proud owner of 69 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler Sport 2. And how good has Toyota did this year, not very good. Toyotas haven’t ruined Nascar for me, Nascar has done it themselves, they make laptops for christs sakes. Listening to Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart wine, in the old days if Fireball Roberts and Lee Petty bumped each other, oh well it happens, now they complain on TV for 1/2 an hour. Oh, and if you want to keep the original car companies that started Nascar the same, out goes Pontiac and Dodge(chrysler yes, dodge no) they weren’t in the first race. So you’re down to Chevy and Ford.
What are you all afraid of, getting beat by Toyota? And so your all saying its not ok for Japanese companies to come over here and market cars, but we can go to Europe and market cars? Whats the deal with that? If Ford wasn’t in Europe, they probably wouldn’t be around today.
Remember America started from a diverse group of people from all corners of the world to make a better life and to live the “American Dream”. You ancestor’s aren’t from Sunnyvale or Little Rock, there from another country, unless your Native American, which may I remind you over 120 million Native Americans were killed when people came to the US. We invaded there land, killed millions of women and children. So if you wanna say you won’t support anyone who has attacked America, fill in the rest for yourself.
Also look what imports did to American cars during the 70′s, we had the Pinto, the Chevette, piesces of crap. Imports helped American car makers wake up and start offering quality cars again.
IMO of Toyota in Nascar, let em buck. If they don’t win, laugh and mock them all you want, but if they do get things figured out, it’ll turn into a comptetion.
Isn’t that what Nascar is about, whichever car crosses the line finish line first? If a Toyota does it, it gives the American cars a reason to stand up and be dominant cars again, but no matter what, Nascar will always kiss Chevy’s ass to make them win, so why do you even care if Toyota’s there or not?

May 11, 2007 at 5:12 am
(1159) user says:

Server must be down. No new messages for a while

May 11, 2007 at 5:15 am
(1160) MattC says:

Jeff makes some good points. Toyota is no good in NASCAR right at this moment. If they get better, then the domestics will have to out-do them… Thus making the sport better.

May 11, 2007 at 5:20 am
(1161) MattC says:

To let you all know… I’ve tried posting a few times here and none of my posts have made it to the blog – I’ve been very careful to leave out swear words and I also havent made any insults towards anyone. I’m just voicing my opinions about an “over rated” foreign brand in NASCAR. I’m beginning to think the admin of this site is biased.

May 11, 2007 at 12:00 pm
(1162) Todd W says:

Wouldn’t it be nice if they started winning races without ripping off an American small block to do it? (When they do start winning of course)

: )

…They aren’t even compeating Toy boys; their ripping off sixties muscle. You might as well be backing Chevrolet, because that rip off engine in all of the Toyota’s (including the craftsman truck) — Is waaay more Chevrolet than it is Toyota.

…And you paid 27 thousand dollars for a 1987 mini van Arby?


May 11, 2007 at 12:11 pm
(1163) Todd W says:

umm…about the mini van again. You know Arby, just going by the years here (seven or whatever)

For 27k in 2000 you could have gotten an LS6 Chevelle instead. Seven years later that same car is going for 80k low end now. Talk about investment!! Arby, next time how about you pick the car instead, and tell your wife she can only pick the color.

: )

May 13, 2007 at 3:58 am
(1164) Sad Sack says:

This has been an interesting 2hrs of reading. I only have one thing to say… I would just once love to see a Japanese pitch man try to sell a Toyota truck on American TV. Have any of you noticed that the spokesmen on the Toyota Tundra commercials are the quintesential American blue collar tuff guys, WWE wrestlers don’t even sound that tuff. And look who is driving them, they look like they have modeled themselves from the guys in the commercials, kind of the equivelant of a yuppie buying a Harley and putting on fake tatoos. I’d love to see the sales numbers for Toyota if they had some shrimp who couldn’t see over the steering wheel and needed a ladder to get in one of those things, actually try to sell an American on how American their Tundra is. They are manipulating these poor retarded redneck want-a-be s into buying their trucks… have you ever seen a Japanese guy driving a tundra? Heck no… if you did it would look like a 5 year old driving a school bus. We’re all a bunch of chumps here and it’s sad to watch our country fall apart like this, good luck to all you hypocrits out there who know everything about life and are doing your part to preserve the American way,

May 14, 2007 at 10:28 pm
(1165) Robert says:

How many of you Dodge fans got caught by surprise on the deal of the century?

WOW! Daimler paid like US $36 bill. for it back in 98, and handed over 80.1% control for US $7.6 bill. without any proceeds! WOW! And to top it all off, it’s a clearing house, named “Cerberus” AKA. A three headed dog that guards the entrance to hades. WOW! That deal rates right up there with… Well, uhm, there are no others! WOW!

Wonder when my truck needs to be serviced if there will be a suited bean counter there to ensure the wrench turner did not take any unquantifiable steps in the procedure?!

Again, WOW!
Well at least they did not allow the China-Man to buy it!

May 16, 2007 at 8:31 am
(1166) Todd W says:

Well, Jeff…If you would get your nose out of the books and stick it under a hood for once, you would notice that what’s powering those cars in NASCAR is American V8 power….Not Toyota power. I don’t care who makes what where Jeff. I know I can’t order up a carbed, small block with alluminum heads that makes close to 500 hp from GM performance, MoPar, and Ford motorsports…Not from any Toyota catalog. That’s what NASCAR is about Jeff; American performance….Not how ‘American’ the mold maker was that stampred the cup holder in your Camry.

May 16, 2007 at 8:31 am
(1167) Robert says:

Ah wise man Jeff, you are so smart, why don’t you go on an education expedition?

Just a little thing that every American 1st grader knows.
1. GM is housed in Detroit, MI = USA
2. Ford is housed in Dearborn, MI = USA
3. Toyota is housed in Toyota, Aichi = Japan.

So now Jeff, what were you saying? That the uninformed people who purchase non American made products are THE ’cause’ of the US corporate auto manufactures to ‘effect’ change and move some assembly locations within North America?

Yes JEff, we are ‘ALL’ fully aware of this, but they are still American cars and American products! Unlike toy who is ‘NOT’, so is you chose that path, then that is ‘YOUR’ destiny, not ours. However, when you come to realize the err in that decision, we will welcome you back!

May 16, 2007 at 8:38 am
(1168) Robert says:

Ah Todd, in your simplestic haste to achieve an answer you placed a devestating travesty in your post. I would that you ‘could’ order that engine as opposed to ‘can’t’.

Ah Jeff, maybe you speak with truistic talent. No, maybe not, that’s just Todd, he has a knack for mirepresentation of information, so count him out!

May 16, 2007 at 9:03 am
(1169) Todd W says:

ha ha ha

I just woke up, and we jumped on the exact same poster at the same time….And I got it all bass-akwards Robert. But that’s okay, because Steve McCormick knows I mean well.

May 16, 2007 at 12:14 pm
(1170) Robert says:

Heh! Up @ 5:30? WOW!

It appears that Mr. McCormick did not like Jeff either!

May 16, 2007 at 12:28 pm
(1171) Bill says:

A few random thoughts:

I’m a conservative who knows that most of the left-wing liberal crap we are being fed is coming from our own people. Therefore left-wing liberalism, even though it is moronic and obviously promoted by people who do not think for themselves, is just as American as right-wing conservativism. Democrats, I support your God-given, American right to be an idiot!

That being said, you all should know that I drive a Toyota-and no, it was NOT made in the USA! It was made in Japan and shipped over here. It is a 1992 Paseo. (Interestingly, paseo means “walk” or “stroll” in Spanish; insert your own joke here). Nevertheless, it has taken me over 150,000 miles so far with no major work (and unlike most American-made junkmobiles, what little work has needed to be done I’ve been able to do myself).

I will never own another Ford since they openly promote the homosexual agenda (see http://www.boycottford.com). How about that? Not to mention that they are crap. My 5-year-old son was able to break off the cheap plastic door handle of our Taurus (which got about 18 mpg before I drove it to the scrap yard after its 3rd water pump failed causing the aluminum head to warp. Aluminum head on an iron block; what genius American engineer came up with that one?). Our Windstar (15-18 MPG, and that’s on the highway) is so full of electrical problems that I don’t consider it to have power windows or locks anymore. The cabin lights flicker on and off at random. The heat doesn’t work in the front anymore; and the A/C is completely unreliable. It too has an interior made with cheap plastic parts. Both vehicles burned oil right out of the factory. I could go on. It is crap, like every other Ford I’ve ever owned. Ford stopped making good cars in the early ’70s (I do have a ’69 mustang which still runs great. Although it too has always burned oil).

In comparison, my Paseo gets between 36 and 38 actual MPG, the heat and A/C have always worked, and I know that when I go out in the morning, it is going to start. Although I do, I don’t actually need to check the oil every time I fill up because it simply does not burn oil. Plus it costs less to fill up and I can go farther on a tank.

Which beings up another point. All you “Big 3″ SUV and 4×4 drivers out there who think you are helping America by “buying American;” your ridiculously over-sized vehicles that are never EVER going to go off-road burn 2 to 5 times as much Arab-produced gasoline as mine does. Anyone who knows anything about economics knows that it is not the initial cost but the ongoing costs that really make the money. For example, it has been said that HP and Xerox are not in the printer and copier business, they are in the ink and toner business. The real money is made on the consumables (let me spell it out for the NASCAR fans, that’s g-a-s and o-i-l). For my Paseo, I sent $4,000 to Japan for the car and send about $720 a year to the Arabs. You sent $40,000 to Detroit for your Ford F450 but send around $3,000 a year to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. Now, which one of us is really helping America?

So you all NASCAR fanboys can whine and cry as much as you want. Keep on mortgaging your house so you can keep buy another homoford 4×4 which will get you 3 mpg as you drive to the freakin’ grocery store. Maybe someday you will realize that the world has bypassed you and your anachronistic ideas of what is “American,” but I doubt it. You’ll still be bellyaching about it years down the road as you sit on the front porch swilling beer in a snap-front plaid shirt with the sleeves torn off while your inbred grandkids play in the back of your ridiculous 4×4.

The simple fact is that Toyota makes a better car, and it is better for America. Period.

May 16, 2007 at 1:15 pm
(1172) Robert says:

Well Bill, to each his own.
Send me your address and I’ll send you a special mirror. For obvisously you are in the same predicament as are the democrats!

So, you think NASCAR is not a sport?
You do realize the difference levels of sporting events don’t you?

For instance, a spectator sport is a sport that is characterized by the presence of spectators, or watchers, at its matches.

Spectator sports may be professional sports or amateur sports. They often are distinguished from participant sports, which are more recreational; golf can be either.

While any sport may occasionally provide drama in one way or another, spectator sports typically have the ability to inspire vicarious feelings of victory or power in the person watching.

With that, you do realize that NASCAR has a spectator base of 75 mill. world wide don’t you?

You also realize that NASCAR is the second largest spectator sport in the world, do you not? F-1 (let me spell it out for you, Formula One) is the largest spectator sport in the world, Bill, and NASCAR is the second.

Go ahead and support whomever you feel you need to, but keep in mind, my Dodge truck does go off-road, it does pull a trailer, and can out-run your excuse for transportation while pulling a 8,500lb loaded trailer, and still get 17 MPG Bill. Do you know why Bill? Because it has an American made Cummins diesel engine in it! WOW! Bill, you have a hard road ahead of you!


May 16, 2007 at 1:26 pm
(1173) Robert says:

Well Bill it appears that you are the smart one. You see, you left the italics on. Now Mr. McCormick will have to come along and conduct a clean up. It will be much easier for him to just eradicate the simplistic poster with the lack of knowledge to HOW to turn stuff off.

May 16, 2007 at 1:29 pm
(1174) Robert says:

BTW Bill,
Did I mention to you that we only use CITGO fuel?!

May 16, 2007 at 1:35 pm
(1175) Robert says:
May 16, 2007 at 1:51 pm
(1176) Bill says:

Thanks, Robert, for giving me permission to support whomever I feel I need to. I’ll definitely take you up on that.

Please realize though that my comments were not directed towards people like yourself who actually use that kind of power; they were directed towards the folks who drive a cummins turbo diesel for nothing more than the perceived status of doing so. People who will never haul a single trailer but instead get out the step ladder, climb into their ridiculous vehicles and drive down to the video store to pick up a 3 oz. dvd.

By the way, I don’t give one rat’s ass how fast your truck goes; that is completely irrelevant to me. So you can allegedly outrun me; whoopdie-frickin-do. I still get to work every day. Do you know why Robert? Because my so-called “excuse for transportation” is in fact, actual transportation! I know it is hard to believe, but bigger is NOT necessarily better. How’s your mileage when you’re pretending to be Richard Petty hauling a load of extruded aluminum? Osama thanks you for supporting his war against the American infidels.

And 6 billion people can watch the sunset every day and it still won’t be a spectator sport.

May 16, 2007 at 2:15 pm
(1177) Bill says:

Oops; I thought I turned off the italics. Looks like I put “slash b” instead of “slash i”. Leave it to a NASCAR fan to equate a typo with intelligence. Perhaps because they are so unfamiliar with what intelligence actually is…

But since we are attacking each other’s intelligence now, I should point out that NASCAR and F1 are not the WORLD’S largest spectator “sports;” they are in fact AMERICA’S largest spectator “sports.” The WORLD’S largest spectator sports are soccer (#1), the Olympics (#2), and cricket (#3). In terms of actual humans present (as opposed to watching on TV), cycling is #3. Although to be fair, motorsports are in the top ten as a whole (by as a whole, I mean not just NASCAR and F-1 combined, but also throw in SCCA, Champ, WRC, IRL, Le Mans, etc).

Citgo, huh. So you are supporting Hugo Chavez instead of Osama bin Laden. That’s so much better.

May 16, 2007 at 5:38 pm
(1178) Matt C says:

I tend to agree on that Bill… Nobody should be quick to say they get gas from Citgo only…. Hugo Chavez is a nutcase. I get my gas from a place called QuikFill which is American gasoline. I’m not sure if QuikFill is nation wide, but if it is, people should get their gas from there… I also have a 4×4 truck for offroading which I don’t take offroading as much as I would like. So instead it serves the same purpose as your Paseo. I will be getting a motorcycle in a couple months so I can get 50 mpg… $3.00 a gallon is too damn much – I don’t care if I’m getting American gas or not. If we’re going to go to war with an oil rich country, we should be getting some oil, but hey – thats just me… I tend to think crazy thoughts…

May 16, 2007 at 6:57 pm
(1179) Robert says:

Don’t be so gullible there Matt. I’m grilling this monkey.

Check my link to Sunoco in 1276, another American company!

May 18, 2007 at 1:30 am
(1180) Chad says:

For what it’s worth, the fat lazy union bastards sit on their butts and expect to get paid an exorbitant amount of money for doing as little work as possible. You are either an asset or a liability. People in Dearborn taught me something… “Work yourself OUT of a job.” Where I come from (Texas), you better work hard or you won’t have a job. One of two things needs to happen as far as the union is concerned; either it goes away (until it’s needed again), or Toyota gets one. At least that would level the playing field somewhat.

May 18, 2007 at 12:13 pm
(1181) wzrd11 says:

Toyota complains how they have had to under engineer their motor (like going back in time). I single camshaft and two valves per cylinder is awesome in it simplicity. It works, it creates lots of horsepower and it lasts. This type of motor is far more dependable than a double overhead camshaft, four valves per cylinder motor and the single cam motor still develops as much horsepower. Sometimes high tec. isn’t practical in the real world!
The beauty is in the simplicity!

May 18, 2007 at 2:34 pm
(1182) Mike says:

It is really sad to see all the ignorant people here. Just a few points to make here.
1) NASCAR is supposed to be stock car racing. When was the last time Ford, GM, or Dodge rolled out a car with a carb?
2) Because I liked the styling and price, I got sucked into buying a GM car. After 2 years and 65,000 miles, I have had the following problems: Blown head gasket, (2) locked brake calipers, a busted fan for the hvac, a broken radio head unit and (2) sets of brake pads. My other vehicle a ’99 Toyota Tacoma has 88,780 miles on it. The only thing I’ve done to it is replace an O2 sensor. Never even did a brake job.
3) A friend of mine has an ’04 Tahoe. After 65,000 miles, the cam shaft started developing pits and cracks. What did GM offer to do? Give him a $500 credit towards the purchase of a new Tahoe. Why would he buy another Tahoe is the first one couldn’t last beyond 65,000 miles. Bottom line, he’s now a Toyota fan.
4) My sister has a ’99 Mustang. Thing barely passed 100,000 miles. I spend most weekends repairing it. (I used to work in the service dept of a Ford dealer).

I was a fan of nascar many years ago when Earnhardt senior was still alive. Unfortunately, the sport has lost a lot of it’s luster that it once had. But it’s not because of Toyota entering it. I believe it’s more because of the goverment influence (regarding tobacco, alcohol, etc.). But that’s another argument for another day.

For everybody complaining about Toyota producing vehicles here. They are here because demand is here. Like any corporation, they sell products where there’s demand. This is also the same reason their prices are rising. Supply and demand. It wasn’t long ago that Toyota was selling cars/trucks for cheaper than the big 3. In some cases they still are. Don’t blame this on Toyota by saying they are underpaying their employees. Maybe the problem is that the big 3 are overpaying their employees. This couldn’t be due to Unions could it? One of the reasons that the big 3 are having so many problems is because of the loyalties they’re still paying to all the employees including the ones who have long since retired. What happened to people working an honest days work for an honest pay? To quote my grandfather, “You make your own security”. I work two blue collar jobs (trucking and landscaping). I don’t have a pension nor guaranteed benefits till the day I die. Like many people out there, I’m saving for when I retire. The same people who are praising the big 3 manufacturers because they are American and are employing American people are the same people who will eventually bring them down. These American people are the ones who are fueling the Unions that are constantly demanding pay raises and better benefits. This is where the increased car pricing comes in. Let’s see where that will lead us. So far, it’s killing Ford and GM (hence why Toyota surpassed Ford and is set to surpass GM in the not too distant future). Oddly enough, it wasn’t long ago that Toyota was buying raw materials from the US, shipping them to Japan, building the vehicles, shipping the vehicles back to the US, and still selling them cheaper than we could build and sell them for in the US. Wake up people. If the quality or price is there, people are going to go for it. Maybe eventually the big 3 will realize this and either produce a better vehicle or lower their pricing. We know they can’t lower their prices though because they owe so much on their employee benefits and pay that they would go under. It’s a constant vicious cycle.

So I’m sure some people are asking why Toyota’s now cost more. Well let’s wake up. If people are willing to pay 40k for an SUV from GM or Ford. Why should Toyota sell it cheaper. They can take the additional money as profit. It’s called business. Would any of you sell something for $5 that you could get $10 for? I don’t think so.

Can’t wait to see what this post stirs up.

May 19, 2007 at 9:32 am
(1183) Robert says:

Well Matt, I now know why you are so gullible!

Very interesting on politics! Who is the current Governor of Todd W’s state = CA? Last I checked he was/is not an American, and Bush was at one time working legislation to make a slight change in order for him to run in 08. Thankfully the dems found out and actually did something for a change!

It appears you are younger than even Todd, and are already brainwashed into allowing the fact an outside GDP is better than ‘our’ own! That is the first admitted stage of our evolution into becoming nothing more than a materialistic nation.

In my experience of people, they come in three forms. Thinkers, Workers, and Loafers. Thinkers make the big bucks. Workers get the job done. Loafers join unions and the military to be told what to do, when to do it, for how long, and when to stop. They believe that life and the world was stripped from them, and they’ll be darned if they will raise a finger to get it back. These types of people are truly lackadaisical in all that they fail to achieve today, so let them concern themselves about it tomorrow! IIRC that is there creed! It is sadly these types of people who have embedded themselves into unions. As you pointed out, they hold positions and therefore can coerce people into their way of business. There are two sayings in my field:
1. You can educate yourself out of a job.
2. You can work yourself out of a job.
However, some types of people take these sayings as gospel!

I for one had a supervisor of this attribute several years ago, when last I saw him he was still a supervisor!

May 20, 2007 at 1:57 am
(1184) Matt C says:

Thats right. They do know the system. They know it all too well. Instead of going and getting a job, they have kids. The more kids they have, the more money they get from the government. Thats one of the things thats pulling this country down. I know someone who has filed income tax returns for people like this and there was one case where a woman made $650.00 for the year and she was complaining because she ONLY got $4500.00 as her income tax return. It’s people like this that make me want to throw up.

May 20, 2007 at 2:08 am
(1185) Matt C says:

As for me making statements about Japanese cars and electronics – they are all opinions based on my personal experience with them. It saddens me to have to root for another country’s products when I KNOW we can do much better… So why dont we? Robert, I’m sure you understand that we came out with the SR-71 Blackbird in the earily 60′s… That is proof that this country has the ability to be the best at everything it competes in. If the same amount of effort went into building cars as what we put into the SR-71, there would be an easy winner here. There would be no debate over who’s better.

The point is – If I’m going to spend money on something, it has to be better than the other vehicles it competes against in it’s class. I should be able to go online to various websites and read the reviews about which one is better and why. Unfortunately, I ended up comparing Toyota and Nissan against each other. For the vehicle I was buying, the domestic brands couldn’t even come in 2nd place. I’m sorry about that, but I can’t change it. It is what it is.

May 20, 2007 at 3:03 pm
(1186) Daylanna says:

If any of you good people have any doubt as to the centuries old desire Japan has for domination read “Rising Sun” by the Harvard Grad Michael Chriton. In the preface he noted that all references to the Jap. Corps., Prime Min. etc. were accurate, and not ficionalized like the story was. I was stationed there for almost 10 years as my husband was working for the govt. The Japanese also READ the warnings printed by their own companies, ie Nintendo and warn their own children to NOT spend a lot of time in front of the TV as it may cause seizures. So, is it OK for the gentleman to be upset that NASCAR is alowing foreign cars to run? U-bet!

May 20, 2007 at 8:12 pm
(1187) T.R. Badder says:

NASCAR is a business,bottom line is $$$ MONEY. Toyota loves to throw money, lots, and lots of money at any racing venue just to get to compete and than get to the top. Almost sounds like GM…

May 21, 2007 at 3:15 pm
(1188) reneuprr says:

I read the first 100 comments and I just do not understand why so many of you support Toyota. It all started with The Zero that bombed Pearl Harbour. The Zero is Mitsubishi. The Japanese brought us in the War and we are all still paying. It is only a matter of time when we the Chinese will offer a car in the US, and GD forbid Iraq getting their crap together. It is the principle of it all. Nascar needs to be American damn it. I work for a Railroad and know first hand of all the cars that are built by our NAFTA neighbors. I am tired of free trade because just like the Geneva Convention. The US are the only one who play by the rules.

May 22, 2007 at 3:55 am
(1189) Mark says:

I have always owned Fords and presently I have a 4 cylinder Contour with 170,000 miles on it. No major repairs, it is how you take care of them. I am not worried about Toyota entering NASCAR, look at their tremendous performances so far! (LOL) They have trouble even qualifying. Dale Jarrett missed his first race in years this year, because he is now driving a Toyota!! I was a fan if his for years, but let him go when he switched. I love it!…

May 23, 2007 at 12:30 pm
(1190) RD says:

Yes Toyota does ruin NASCAR for me, but then so does Mike Hylton. NASCAR is turning into WWF.

May 28, 2007 at 3:33 am
(1191) Jade says:

NASCAR is the great AMERICAN race. I am not biased or prejudiced, but we MUST maintain a sense of individuality in this rapidly expanding melting pot. Let America have its own culture. Keep the foreign car companies OUT! Or not, we could always have Portuguese NFL teams, or Korean baseball teams competing in the world series. How about Germany vs. Indonesia in the next Superbowl?

May 28, 2007 at 6:08 pm
(1192) Paul says:

Isn’t it funny that the best reasons most NASCAR fans in this thread can give for not letting Toyota into NASCAR are based on bigotry, ignorance, and prejudice? If these are the predominant attitudes among those loyal to NASCAR, then maybe it is time for a breath of fresh air in the sport – read: DIVERSITY. I, for one, am not attracted to the environment created by large numbers of people with small-minded attitudes like that, and as a result, limit my enjoyment of NASCAR to television.

Diversity can bring positive change, and having Toyota participate may bring the sport some fresh perspectives, although Michael Waltrip seems hell-bent on actually reversing any forward progress brought to the sport by diversification: http://nascar.about.com/b/a/257878.htm. How embarrassing.

As far as having a “different” manufacturer brought to the table: Toyota, and any of the other three manufacturers represented in NASCAR, are there purely as sponsors anyway – all of the cars are nearly identical mechanically, with the major differences not being parts content, but decals on the hood and decklid to indicate which “manufacturer” it came from. Race teams build their own cars, so branding is just skin deep anyway. The parts content of these cars has virtually no commonality between the NASCAR racer and the one on the showroom floor. The Toyota will be virtually indistinguishable from Ford, Chevy, or Dodge, especially in the wake of the change-over to the Car of Tomorrow.

Now, on to where the consumer verions of these cars are made – we have a tie – 2 made in the US, and 2 imported. Guess where the Camry is made.

Dodge Avenger – Sterling Heights, Michigan

Chevrolet Monte Carlo / Impala (COT)- Oshawa Canada

Ford Fusion – Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico

Toyota Camry – Georgetown, Kentucky

Oh well, there goes the “us and them” when it comes to “existing American” NASCAR. You’ve already got a two to one majority of cars not made in the US, so bringing the Camry to the table EVENS THE SCORE, with the “foreign” newcomer making the sport MORE American!

I guess it comes down to what people THINK is American, versus what actually IS American.

Bring Toyota in – it can only help.

I used to be a GM man, but after major mechanical failures in two Chevy pickup engines – one at 65k miles, and one at 112k, and a Pontiac GTP which spent more time in the shop with warranty issues than the garage – I only put 40k on it – I finally saw the light. I now own three imports – an ’07 Toyota Tundra 5.7, an ’05 Mini Cooper S type, and an old ’93 Nissan Hardbody 4×4 with 204k miles – just change the oil and keep the tires rotated. All I do at the dealers any more is regular service for any of my vehicles.

Back to the point: Having Toyota in NASCAR does not ruin it for me – I think having Toyota participate will bring much needed freshness to the sport.

I have read most of the previous posts, and those opposed to Toyota, as a whole, can’t seem to string a good sentence together. It’s embarrassing.

OK – now let the grammatically incorrect, ill-formed sentences, and murdered grammar of the inevitable flaming responses to this post begin! Go ahead!

Now take a look at the posts below! I guarantee you in the following posts opposing Toyota, there will be massive bludgeoning of the English language. Enjoy!

June 2, 2007 at 12:01 pm
(1193) jerry says:


June 3, 2007 at 8:50 am
(1194) Stan says:

Toy drivers are just what they are and sell-outs. They are second and third rate drivers that can’t get a real job driving.
The upper management is from Japan. The profits go to Japan to strengthen their economy.

June 5, 2007 at 1:49 am
(1195) John says:

Its funny you worry about toyota the cars are built in the race teams shops not a toyota factory line GROW up what kind of fan are you if you choose not to like a sport because of a vehicle. GOOOO kurt 2 car rocks

June 7, 2007 at 9:37 am
(1196) k says:

How racist can we get? Who cares what car you drive. We should be pro the world doing well not just pro American. People should stop being so mean.

June 7, 2007 at 3:38 pm
(1197) Chris says:

Wow, theres alot of people getting crazy over all this. I grew up watching Nascar and anyother type of racing for that matter. I got mad when they made the Chase, i got mad with the driver diversity program ( im not racist i just dont want to see anyone get there without paying thier dues) i got mad when they closed North wilksboro , rockinham lost a date to darlington, i got mad at the COT , and of course i got mad with the entry of Toyota. ill tell you what, no matter how mad i got, and said to myself i was done with NASCAR, when the green flag drops im still a fan and always will be.

June 7, 2007 at 9:57 pm
(1198) John Smith says:

What a joke. So the Japanese car companies are making fake fiberglass replicas of their cars with bored out, modified pickup truck drive trains, to run the TRASHCAR circuit? What’s the big deal, many of the “US made” cars have been over 50% out-of-country parts for a long time. And the “stock car” you see racing doesn’t have ANY stock CAR parts in it at all. Hasn’t had ‘em for decades. The freaking Indy Racing League Chevies have more US made STOCK CAR parts in them than any of the NASCAR so-called “stock cars”. Might as well race go-carts with Ford or Chevy or Toyota painted on the helmets. There hasn’t been a real stock car race in NASCAR since about 1970.
You want to watch US made products racing? Go to the garden tractor races. Craftsman, Cub Cadet, the AYP fleet and MTD’s bucket ‘o brand names are about the last All-American product on wheels left. Yeah boy, listen to that Kohler wind up, sounds like a Harley, except it winds up quite a bit faster.

June 8, 2007 at 2:00 pm
(1199) Jack says:


Toyotas are some of the best vehicles built! Ford Chevy Dodge etc only wish they could build a vehicle this reliable!!!

I hope Toyota starts kickin ass in NASCAR!

Who could ask for anything more?

June 9, 2007 at 12:09 am
(1200) Wombat says:

I think you are all overlooking the fact that there are no Fords, Chevys, or Dodges racing in NASCAR. All those nearly identical-looking cars are specially scratch-built race cars, built in race car shops, and have absolutely nothing in common with any real production car except for the name painted on it. Seen any tube-framed V8 front-engined rear-drive Fusions at your Ford dealer’s showroom lately? Or Tauruses (or Luminas) before that? The NASCAR “Camrys” aren’t Camrys, either, or even Toyotas for that matter. It’s like painting “Cessna” on the side of the space shuttle to sell Cessna light airplanes. People are just so gullible. Oh, by the way, those racing “pickup trucks” aren’t really trucks, either. The last “Stock Car Race” I attended was at Langhorne in 1959 at the age of 12. A Hudson Hornet won. It was actually a Hudson Hornet! Imagine that!

June 9, 2007 at 1:51 am
(1201) Rog says:

response to 1309 racist–pro world????? are u crazy–ur whats wrong with this country—we need to take a stand—the rest of the world hates us—-wake up !!!!!!!!!!We need to get back to giving Americans jobs not these people who dont care about us By the way 1308 knows what he is talking about they used are technology

June 9, 2007 at 9:32 pm
(1202) samrock says:

Yes I agree that Stock car hasn’t been the same in 37 plus years..

Yes the Hudson Hornet was an early (AMERICAN) car that dominated it was great…Their secret was their power to weight ratios running 6 cylinders beating the st8 all day sadly to say they disappeared??

What I am saying is do we want are BIG#3 (GM FOMOCO MOPAR) to go down the same path the iconic Hudson did??

What will be left???? Just a bunch of imports racing each other following American rules??

It’s our responsibility to preserve them or when their gone their just gone!!!

June 10, 2007 at 12:12 am
(1203) Kentucky Proud says:

It’s time to be American and say no to Japan,China and all those third world want a be’s and protect our jobs. You hear our President say that we need to open out markets to the world. Working out rather well for Japan and others not to buy from us??

June 10, 2007 at 1:37 am
(1204) sprylama says:

Yes japanese cars are made in america and employ thousands of americans , but the profits go to japan , and the profits made by the big 3 go to who in america a few major shareholders , rich guys that will never give you the time of day , so i laugh at the comment that the profits go to americans . Believe it that rich people exist throughout the world , and when a rich folk in america gets another billion dollar i can assure you that he will not cut you a cheque.
And if that was the case why do’nt you guys turn away from chrysler , these oh so precious profits go to germany . remember the germans are the ones who murdered 6 million jews.

June 10, 2007 at 1:41 am
(1205) george says:


June 10, 2007 at 1:52 am
(1206) samrock says:

I agree about the germans and the holcaust but chrysler was never a german owned company (POST WAR) until about 9 years ago and now its american again..Chrysler was truly (AMERICAN in the beginning ) and hopefully will stay that way AGAIN with Cerebus !!

The germans screwed chrysler if lee ioccoca was there they would have never sold out in the begining he was brilliant I dont care what anyone thinks ….

June 10, 2007 at 2:02 am
(1207) samrock says:

Regards to georgie 1325

Nothing If you want to buy (POOH)
BUY IT!! Maybe you will be lucky enough to have a sludge motor too!! Somebodys got to keep those mechanics busy

June 10, 2007 at 2:10 am
(1208) samrock says:

Regards Georgie 1325
Go buy it!! Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones that will have rod problems or better yet a sludge motor you got to keep them mechanics busy !

Ignorance must be bliss????????????

June 10, 2007 at 2:22 am
(1209) samrock says:

Fellows it sounds like the great American Sellout Global (POOH)=DUMB IDEA

June 10, 2007 at 11:38 am
(1210) samrock says:
June 10, 2007 at 11:42 am
(1211) samrock says:

Toyota recalling nearly 1 million cars worldwide
Defective parts could cause drivers to lose control of steering wheel

Toyota recalls 533,000 SUVs and pickups; Honda recalls 81,000 Accords
Updated 1/19/2007 3:37 PM ET

WOW I would love to going down the road about 70 miles an hour with a boat load KIDS !!! Thats the japanese way of saying BANZAI to the AMERICANS all over again!!!
Thats Brilliant I will pray for all of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am beginning to think there is some sort of Japanese MKULTRA marketing program going on here in this country I have heard of these techniques being used back in the drive theatres of the old days with showing you a picture of coca cola on the screen just for a second then you get thirsty and have to run and get one..

I bet they think us americans are all just fat dumb and lazy


I like to think of us as saavvy smart and self sufficient !!!!!!!

June 10, 2007 at 11:51 am
(1212) samrock says:

Toyota recalling nearly 1 million cars worldwide
Defective parts could cause drivers to lose control of steering wheel

Toyota recalls 533,000 SUVs and pickups; Honda recalls 81,000 Accords
Updated 1/19/2007 3:37 PM ET

WOW Brilliant to be going down the road about 70 miles an hour with a boat load KIDS loose steering !! That’s the Japanese way of saying BANZAI to the AMERICANS all over again!!!
That’s Brilliant I will pray for all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am beginning to think there is some sort of Japanese MKULTRA marketing program going on here in this country…. I have heard of these techniques being used back in the drive theatres of the old days with showing you a picture of coca cola on the screen just for a second then you get thirsty and have to run and get one..

I like to think of us as saavvy smart and self sufficient !!!!!!! with American inginuety Again

June 10, 2007 at 4:48 pm
(1213) george says:

Oh please samrock ,, yes toyota has recalls , in fact everyone has recalls, and i find it interesting you do’nt mention the million of recalls but Gm and ford . Look at CTS auto journal list of recalls the american and german makes lead the way with recalls .
YES !! I have done my research and will buy the toyota , i have read about the sludge problem in toyotas as of 2007 there are no such problems ,, those problems were common on 2002-2006 toyotas.
Why do’nt you mention dangerous problems with king pins on the steering on the GMC vehicles , they all have recalls !!! , i think you are one sick protectionist .

June 10, 2007 at 5:14 pm
(1214) GEORGE says:

well on the other side i love american girls , i do,nt think asian women are attractive ..

June 10, 2007 at 5:16 pm
(1215) george says:

so tell me samrock i am wondering if you watch UFC , and if so who are your favorite fighters .


June 10, 2007 at 7:02 pm
(1216) george says:

ALLRIGHT samrock i did not intend on changing your mind , so we can agree to disagree , that is the beauty of freedom , freedom to choose for better or for worse what we believe in .
We can end it here , we are just going to go in circles.You buy your chevy and i will buy my tundra ,, case closed .


June 10, 2007 at 7:05 pm
(1217) george says:

So tell me how would you rank vehicles from best to worst . Top 15 vehicles .
just wondering.

June 10, 2007 at 10:54 pm
(1218) boogator says:

toyota didn’t ruin nascar,bill france delt the last death blow 20 yrs ago when all he saw was $$$$ signs when he looked at bill elliots big fan following.he died 20 years too late…the other blow came in 1971=2 when ford and chrysler quit racing and nascar made a pact w/the devil {G.M.] to keep them competive if they got back into nascar racing never been the same since,except when bill elliot caught them off guard,ford embarised GM and nascar had to change the rules almost weekley to stop elliot…NASCAR the WWF or racing, would rather watch grass grow…..gator

June 11, 2007 at 12:47 am
(1219) samrock says:

I like your comment gator!! About
(EVIL GM FRANCE) (OWNING NASCAR)I do agree that it is seriously biased it ticks me off too..ITS NOT FAIR

Its very obvious to me got to love that finish today at pocono leaving jeffy boy win when ryan newman was ready for the win what does good ole payed off (GMNASCAR) DO ??Just as newman gets along his side the yallow flag dropped it started to rain but they couldnt let little old jeffy boy gm loose could they ???



June 11, 2007 at 12:58 am
(1220) jimbob says:

Small car Ford focus is worth a look
Possibly chevy cobalt
PT cruiser is original I have heard they were quite reliable
Midsize ford fusion / new taurus would get my vote
Convertible Ford Mustang GT nice econo sporter
BEST Value sports car vette pontiac solstice
IF money was no object I still love the new viper 2008 I don’t care what people think!!
Large car chrysler 300 hemi nice car
Really lookin forward to DODGE CHALLENGER HEMI !!

June 11, 2007 at 1:01 am
(1221) samrock says:

Sounds logical jimbob some nice choices !!at least their AMERICAN

June 11, 2007 at 4:15 pm
(1222) Rae says:

So, here’s to all you “Patriotic” “Flag-waving” “Buy American” bigots that I have had the displeasure of reading on here: How many of you shop Wal-Mart???? Because if you do, you are doing more to hurt American jobs than all the import car buyers combined. You should feel ashamed! In case you didn’t know, most of Wal-Mart’s products are Made-In-China! CHINA!!!! The world’s ONLY remaining COMMUNIST stronghold. Stick that in your corn-cob pipe and smoke it!

June 11, 2007 at 4:36 pm
(1223) Rae says:

Another interesting note: There is a ultra-conservative right-wing Christian group, stongly sponsored by so many of you Toyota haters, that is claiming responsibility, even calling it a moral victory, that Ford profits were down so far this year. Wanna know why??? Your beloved American Family Association has called for a BOYCOTT on Ford products!!! WHY!?!! Because Ford is running TWO full-page ads in a prominent Gay magazine! So, don’t go blaming FOrd’s demise wholly on Toyota and other imports: it’s also being strongly affected by BIGOTED CONSERVATIVES LIKE YOURSELVES! Get a brain people, and look around to see how much your actions affect every other thing around you!

June 12, 2007 at 12:15 am
(1224) jimbob says:

Did he say he reads a prominent Gay magazine ? I bet thats how hes so well informed Yikes GEEBE LOL

June 12, 2007 at 1:05 am
(1225) samrock says:

Thats sad…..If Old ford turnin acducy just to pickup sales.. Sounds just like some of the politicians and desperation…Just trying to get a vote if this is true??

I just wish it was kept in the closet were it belongs ! personally I don’t want to hear about it ! Bad attitude, arrogance and flaunting is what bothers me ..

I just found out back in 2005!! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10347477/
It’s not ford brand name but it’s owned by ford!

Jaguar that’s common for them TEABAGS look at Elton john/David bowie …
Landover English name (pooh) anyway I call it (europooh)
Volvo well you know them sweeds are real liberal almost anything goes there they make ugly cars anyway boxes

I think ford wants to dump them It would be no skin of my nose !!

Bill Ford 2 I hope your reading this get with the program!! Take a firm stand remember you had both a mother and a father what would old Grampa Henry think ??? SHAME ON YOU !!

June 12, 2007 at 1:27 am
(1226) samrock says:

Rae 1346 Lighten up !

God loves you !!! But I dont shop at walmart either

June 12, 2007 at 2:28 am
(1227) samrock says:

Ford hires banks to sell Jaguar, Land Rover
Ford Motor plans to sell Jaguar and Land Rover, its two British luxury brands, in an apparent step back from premium carmaking
Updated: 10:11 p.m. ET June 11, 2007


June 12, 2007 at 2:38 am
(1228) samrock says:


Ford Motor Co. plans to sell its Volvo Car division, with German carmaker BMW AG a possible buyer, a Swedish published report said Tuesday.
Publication date: 29 May 2007

Source: UPI-1-20070529-16094400-bc-sweden-volvo.xml

June 12, 2007 at 2:43 am
(1229) samrock says:

Good by and good riddens to these !!

June 12, 2007 at 1:26 pm
(1230) Rich says:

‘Bout time Toyota entered, I hope Honda follows suit. Competition will only improve Nascar, like it does business, and leads to bigger and better things. In teh case of Japanese cars, faster and more efficient. No one squeezes as much horsepower per sq. inch than the Japanese engines and this coming from a long time Honda Civic and Integra owner. Oh I had an American car once, Malibu. After the many visits to my local parts store and the draining of my wallet I decided to opt for real technology.

June 12, 2007 at 5:10 pm
(1231) george says:

Rich , i do agree with you . I drive a honda by far and away the best vehicle i have owned.

June 12, 2007 at 5:34 pm
(1232) samrock says:

Regards Richard 1353
AND GEORGIE PORGY with his recyled cancer ridden 1993 (wonda) Honda do you wonda how much longer it last ??

My buddy had one of those I picked on him all the time 4 transmissions 1 water pump 1 head gasket later and 240k and guess what it looks like rust holding hands !!!!!!!!!! YES PURE RUST

June 12, 2007 at 5:52 pm
(1233) jimbob says:

Well somebodys got to keep them old junkyard and body shops runnin

June 12, 2007 at 10:32 pm
(1234) samrock says:

That a boy BOB C !!!!!!!! I hope you become a millionaire !!!!!!!!!!!!

June 12, 2007 at 11:19 pm
(1235) samrock says:

The (300 Chrysler)= BIG LEAGUE

(SAKI LOVERS) don’t know what a real car is like not everyone can afford one of the BEST! MOPAR

June 12, 2007 at 11:26 pm
(1236) samrock says:

Read the reviews baby and weep (**)

June 12, 2007 at 11:35 pm
(1237) samrock says:
June 12, 2007 at 11:37 pm
(1238) samrock says:
June 12, 2007 at 11:48 pm
(1239) samrock says:

If those facts I have presented to you people arent ENOUGH than you must be living in a vacuum cleaner bag !!!!

Because regarless what you people say about chrysler being over half german its still half american (OWNED)

Now can you really say that about toyota and honda ????

I dont think so !!!!!!!!!!!

And by the way chrysler is now all american again and I am betting they will add to this string of world class beaters!!!!

Any takers??????????????

June 13, 2007 at 12:05 am
(1240) samrock says:

Regards Richard 1353

First off them (fumanchu mobiles ) don’t use SAE (cubic inches) as their standard they use the metric system (liters)

Second off you can only (SQUEZZE) so much hp to so many liters if your referring to the metric system

I will also comment to your (lame irrelevant statement) that
(No one squeezes as much horsepower per sq. inch as the Japanese engines)????

I guess you must be new to this world because NO ONE makes more horsepower per cube than the HEMI yes with the blower and nitro methane it makes WELL (5000) HP
You got the (toyboys)toyota /fumanchu mobiles then you got the
(MANS RAM)I am definetly A MAN MOPOWER

June 13, 2007 at 10:38 pm
(1241) samrock says:

regards SVTRUCK00

Yeah that sounds like a nice ride my friend sorry about your uncle ..

I agree about the education part too but I guess its just a strong belief in the USA YES I WILL WAVE THE FLAG of Pride because someday in the near future what is now will only be a memory for a moment sadly to say…So heres to all the patriots rednecks blue collar roll your sleeves up kinda people the dreamers the pioneers inventors philanthropists who contributed to this beautiful country we live in.. I hope that somehow we will see before its too late its a very complicated world today we live in and for everyone thing we do affects so many others ………..


June 15, 2007 at 3:21 am
(1242) bowtie redneck says:

Been gone for a couple of months, thought I would check in. Yep, looks like Toyota’s losing this race,too!
I will watch a few minutes of a race here and there, but never a full race anymore. My favorite part now is the singing of the National Anthem, and the flyovers. Then I can go fishing.

June 17, 2007 at 1:20 am
(1243) george says:

DODGE and chrysler automobiles trucks are the least reliable . THAT IS A FACT !!! ADMIT IT MR . HEMMIE BOY . AT LEAST BE HONEST ABOUT THE RELIABILITY OF YOUR GARBAGE MAKE .

June 17, 2007 at 1:24 am
(1244) george says:



June 17, 2007 at 2:18 pm
(1245) george says:

The PT cruiser has a japanese motor in it . ( look at your last post) ha ha .

June 18, 2007 at 12:59 pm
(1246) samrock says:

And that 2.4 L (2429 cc) DOHC It has a cast iron engine block and an aluminum DOHC cylinder head. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with roller followers and features fracture-split forged powder metal connecting rods, a one-piece cast camshaft cast, and an aluminum intake manifold.

June 18, 2007 at 5:21 pm
(1247) Dale says:

Toyota is more American than ford or gm. They create more jobs for americans with stability. I think its great. I race motocross and there is no American built bike, ‘now thats sad!’

June 18, 2007 at 9:42 pm
(1248) samrock says:

well I can see the old editing department is up to its old tricks deleting my facts again!!!!!!! but it seems like everyone else can swear and say what they want what is up with you biased anti americans ??????

June 18, 2007 at 10:04 pm
(1249) samrock says:

This engine is designed in the USA parts are manufactured in the USA but assembled in mexico !!
The PT Cruiser 2.4 L (2429 cc) EDZ engine is very similar to the 2.0, sharing the same bore and DOHC cylinder head, but it has a taller block and longer 101 mm stroke. It also uses balance shafts to smooth vibrations and is built in Saltillo, Mexico. Output was up to 140 hp when production started in 1994 for the 1995 model year. As of 2004, output is 152 hp SAE (110 kW) at 5200 rpm with 165 ft•lbf (224 N•m) of torque at 4000 rpm.

It has a cast iron engine block and an aluminum DOHC cylinder head. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with roller followers and features fracture-split forged powder metal connecting rods, a one-piece cast camshaft cast, and an aluminum intake manifold.


Chrysler PT Cruiser
Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Cirrus/Chrysler Sebring/Plymouth Breeze
Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager
Jeep Liberty
2003-2009 Jeep Wrangler
Parts MFG IN USA BUT ASEMBLED IN MEXICO NOT JAPAN !!! get the facts straight

Warning You delete this editing department and I will expect a solid explanation for the deletion I am in compliance !!!You let people swear and everything else you leave in half statements and delete the facts ??

June 18, 2007 at 11:10 pm
(1250) samrock says:

The japanese they tried to devise their own computer operating system. They had the Fifth Generation Computer. That flopped. Scott Callon, in his doctoral dissertation at Stanford in the political science department, looked at these cooperative programs the Japanese had in the ’80s. He documented in detail how only one succeeded. One of the reasons they failed is that the companies in fact wouldn’t cooperate with each other: the famous Japanese cooperative culture stopped at the company boundary. American companies are much more inclined to share than the Japanese. Thats why we are stronger
we the USA have givin them too much already the have got a free ride !!

They will take and take if you let them its their philosophy

June 18, 2007 at 11:42 pm
(1251) samrock says:

And now they want to brainwash the american consumer that its more reliable ????

Were is the real data not some magazine Toiletry stuff…Real service bullitens facts not some yuppie thought but real data failures and true customer feedback you have to seperate the fact from the fiction and in this country there seems to be a lot of fiction myth !!

Brainwashed consumers influenced by biased asian automakes these writers of these magazines dont drive these cars 250k miles these evalutions are far from the truth !!!

wake up people

PT barnum qouted there is a sucker born every minute HOW TRUE

I have to say I owned 3 ford taureses they were the most reliable cars I ever owned !!!!!!!!!

Watch out accord and toyota their back and I am proud to say I will buy a fourth!!!!!!!!!!

I hope everyone is reading this but my 300 is great too !!!!!!!!!!!

June 20, 2007 at 1:01 pm
(1252) don c says:

by chance was any of the taureses a SHO ? because thay had yamaha motors in them.

June 20, 2007 at 2:24 pm
(1253) samrock says:

regards to Don 1386

No everyone of them had fords 3.0 liter (American) v6 assembled in georgia ….
those motors are great!!!

June 20, 2007 at 2:51 pm
(1254) don c says:

your wrong from 89-95 the sho had the yamaha ox 66 v6 . that thing will smoke a 5.0 stang anyday

June 20, 2007 at 3:13 pm
(1255) samrock says:

The Ford/Yamaha SHO engine you referring to was a pile of junk as far as reliability concerning the cams.

Introduction of the SHO V8, widespread problems with the cam sprockets with the hollow cams the sprockets would break and guess what since it was designed as an (interference motor) you would chunk pistons break valves and ruin the engine (POOR DESIGN)…

I just can’t understand why ford let Yamaha be involved in that engine …when ford produce some of the finest pushrod motors the 3.0 L shame on you FORD!!

Dual overhead cam motors are not the best design for performance or reliability or even fuel economy I could prove it to you in 2 seconds!!!

But I would love to take my designs to someone in Detroit that would listen to me seriously and maybe make a buck or two off of it as well…

I being an engineer myself can tell you I personally have a design that would outperform the four valves overhead cam per cylinder design…WITH ONLY 2 valves!!!!!!!!!!
(Yes 2) valves!!!!!!!!!

I hope someone’s listening (IN DETROIT) because I would challenge any of the (big three) especially Dodge to give me just 5 minutes of their time….. I promise I would enlighten them the reason why dodge is because right now their in the worst shape . The problem with engineering everybody’s worried about being the greatest and not sitting down and listening to a great Idea I think Detroit lives in a vacuum and doesn’t want to listen to a great Idea????????? Maybe it’s a pride/EGO thing too… Its like If I dint think of it first it must be no good attitude!!!

I tried to contact Chrysler they are not even listen to outside help so I said to heck with it I guess it’s their loss I hope you read this post Chrysler/Cerebus !!!!!!!

June 20, 2007 at 3:21 pm
(1256) samrock says:

Not only would my design out perform any daul overhead 4-6-8 cylinder but it would have better emmisions better fuel economy and better reliabilty ..

Detroit!!! If you read this please reply to this forum if you want to be enlightened!!

June 20, 2007 at 3:40 pm
(1257) samrock says:

Don C 1388 why am I wrong ??

You asked me if any of my taureses had the SHO?? I SAID NO!!! They had the American designed old reliable 3.0 litet v6 pushrod motor !!!

Whats your point Don????? Your the wrong one !!

June 20, 2007 at 4:28 pm
(1258) samrock says:

You know its sorta like Thomas Edison trying to convince to the world that DC was the best current to be used to power our house .

When thank God for George Westinghouse / Nikola Tesla proved that AC was beyond a doubt much more Efficient .

When I look at detroit now they are starting to look like the edison
Narrow minded ??????????
cant see the forest beyond the trees ??

June 20, 2007 at 6:15 pm
(1259) Ralph says:

Let them in, as long as they follow the same rules. none as nascar is stock

by the way Thomas Edison’s DC power is much more efficient. DC isn’t as good for power grids and doesn’t travel as good,

June 20, 2007 at 7:23 pm
(1260) samrock says:

Talk about a contradictory statement wow it takes all kinds in this world

Your quote by the way Thomas Edison’s DC power is much more efficient ??? at what ralph/ ( DC isn’t as good for power grids and doesn’t travel as good)

The advantage of AC for distributing power over a distance is due to the ease of changing voltages with a transformer.

Power is the product of voltage × current (P = VI). For a given amount of power, a low voltage requires a higher current and a higher voltage requires a lower current. Since metal conducting wires have a certain resistance, some power will be wasted as heat in the wires. This power loss is given by P = I2R. Thus, if the overall transmitted power is the same, and given the constraints of practical conductor sizes, low-voltage, high-current transmissions will suffer a much greater power loss than high-voltage, low-current ones.

This holds whether DC or AC is used. However, it was very difficult to transform DC power to a high-voltage, low-current form efficiently, whereas with AC this can be done with a simple and (efficient transformer). This was the key to the success of the AC system. Modern transmission grids use AC voltages up to 765,000 volts.

NAÏVE = Ralph +Go back to school

June 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm
(1261) samrock says:

Ralph you must have failed physics badly


June 20, 2007 at 7:32 pm
(1262) samrock says:


Wrong wrong wrong ralphy

Its so sad I have to make a fool of you read this

June 20, 2007 at 7:54 pm
(1263) samrock says:

Ralph P = I2R

you dont know do you ??

no schooling I guess

June 20, 2007 at 8:23 pm
(1264) George says:

This video sums up a lot …


June 20, 2007 at 8:35 pm
(1265) george says:

Like i have said before , in a post a while back , i do have a VTEC honda . The motor is great 340,000 , no oil burning , and running superb . I punish it it just keeps running like new . But i am not impressed with the body integrity , because it is rusting more than i think it should but it is the first and only car i have had and it has not cost me a dime in repairs , just regular maintenence . Now when i compare my car with a couple of trucks i have driven for my job . A dodge dakota , which by my opinion is total garbage not even 90,000 and the rear diff was toast , and a host of other problems , and cost over 10,000 dollars more than the honda to boot . I drove a GM sonoma , another piece of trash , the front end was toast at 60,000 kms and great expense to the company , the dealer did nothing for us because it was just over the 60,000 kms warranty. For that my boss has decided to give a nissan or toyota a try.

June 20, 2007 at 8:38 pm
(1266) George says:
June 20, 2007 at 9:58 pm
(1267) Matt C says:

Top Gear is the greatest car show in the world. It’s a shame they don’t have it here in the US. I have to resort to youtube to watch the episodes.